UK - Nurse Lucy Letby Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #12

[bbsaz]

It just seems so weird to mention you are wearing your hair in a bun that day, to a doctor while you are both on shift. It seems pretty familiar or casual, or forced, even. Kind of awkward even?

Please notice me

 

[Jazmania]

For the first attempted murder charge instance on June 2nd/3rd, it's a shame that no one there remembers it, and the parents clearly weren't told about it. The defence are clearly going to use this to say that there no serious event took place.

 

[Sweeper2000]

What’s the chances that love interest doctor wasn’t aware of the whispers about LL being associated with these increased deaths?

I wonder whether LL’s outburst in court was to do with a feeling of betrayal and embarrassment, that the interest he showed towards her was not romantic in nature, it was in fact based on a question around whether she was the ultimate cause of the deaths, and he was fully aware of what was being said about her.

Just wild speculation by me, and my own opinion.

I reckon him being relatively new to the hospital in 2016 and a junior doctor/ registrar might leave him out of that loop so to speak. I think dr j said it was a meeting of consultants where the AE was first suggested as a cause but not sure if he would be included in thaT situation.

the word nice could just as easily mean easy to manage, not stressful or demanding in time and treatment. Nice to be around rather than screaming etc.

 

[katydid23]

Doesnt have her back up....OR doesnt care

I find it odd that she spends so much time texting about work, babies stats etc... yet not once has she shown any curiosity about all these additional and unexpected collapsed and deaths

JMO

As opposed to showing curiosity about the unexpected collapses, she seems to offer her own diagnosis of said collapses to her colleagues, seemingly convinced she has it sorted out already.

 

[Sweeper2000]

I think 'shut up' is fun girly banter between friends. My daughter and her friends say it in a 'fun' way , like a teasing each other way.

Yeh that’s what I thought but the fun comes with the delivery in face to face. In her texts there is no letdown or emoji. Nothing to indicate it’s said with lightness of heart, compared to her response to the commando joke it’s quite different. Jmo though. I think now we know those texts were to the guy she reacted to might add credence to my suggestion.

 

[katydid23]

Dan O'Donoghue

@MrDanDonoghue


Nurse Lucy Letby's murder trial continues at Manchester Crown Court this morning. We'll be continuing to hear evidence in relation to Child N. Ms Letby is accused of attempting to murder the premature baby boy on three occasions in June 2016. She denies all charges.

Cheshire Police intelligence analyst Kate Tyndall is taking the jury through sequencing evidence for June 15, when the Crown say Ms Letby twice attacked the boy

Ms Letby's nursing notes from June 15 record that Child N was 'pale/mottled' and required oxygen support

Ms Letby's notes state that Child N's parents had been informed and that they were 'understandably upset'

At 14:50 on June 15, Ms Lebty recorded that Child N had a profound desaturation. Notes state: 'Infant became apnoeic with desat to 44%. heart rate 90bpm. Fresh blood noted from mouth'...minutes later a number of senior medics were crash bleeped to attend the child

 

[katydid23]

Dan O'Donoghue

Nursing notes record that there was difficulty trying to insert an ET tube. With two doctors failing to 'obtain a secure airway'


Two consultants from the anaesthetic team were called to help, but they also had difficulty fitting an ET tube, the nursing notes show.


Court now being shown messages between Ms Letby and colleagues that evening. A doctor, who cannot be named for legal reasons, asked her if she was okay and told her to cry if she needed to.




Ms Letby responded: 'I’m ok just feel like ive been running around all day and not really achieved anything positive for him….don’t want to cry in front of people here maybe when I’m home'



At the end of her shift, Ms Letby sent a WhatsApp message to a nursing colleague, who also cannot be named, saying: 'Losing the will'

Notes from 19:40 on June 15 show that there was a further 'profound desaturation'. Child N had 'colour loss' and required neopuff breathing support

 

[katydid23]

At 19:48 the baby boy required resuscitation and a number of doses of adrenaline


He eventually stabilised. Ms Letby said in a message to a colleague, who can't be named for legal reasons, that Child N's parents were present and had had the boy christened.


Court has been shown numerous messages between Ms Letby and a doctor, who cannot be named for legal reasons. In one of those messages she asks 'What do you think caused his (Child N's) bleed?'

https://twitter.com/MrDanDonoghue

The doctor responds: 'I think there will be a haemangioma or collection. If it was epiglottitis his crp should have been higher because he was starting to become unwell'


Doctor says he's 'optimistic he'll be okay' Ms Letby responds: 'That's brilliant news, thanks for letting me know' - soon after the boy was discharged from Alder Hey hospital

 

[ColourPurple]

..

It just seems so weird to mention you are wearing your hair in a bun that day, to a doctor while you are both on shift. It seems pretty familiar or casual, or forced, even. Kind of awkward even?

Then there's the talking about herself in the third person:

'Well I have got my hair in a bun today, it's only fitting that I was 'serious Lucy' !!'

Could just be a throwaway comment but also made me think , how many "different" Lucys are there in her head?

And that it was fitting that she was "serious Lucy" because a baby was at risk of dying, not because her hair was in a bun.

 

[JosieJo]

Doesnt have her back up....OR doesnt care

I find it odd that she spends so much time texting about work, babies stats etc... yet not once has she shown any curiosity about all these additional and unexpected collapsed and deaths

JMO

Yes thats true ..she has never commented on the number of collapses in relation to them being odd

 

[Sweeper2000]

I think the hair in a bun comment was probably a sentence used to display attractiveness. Generally I think hair in a bun achieves multiple things, it can give a stern appearance which is in line with her outward appearance of professionalism, it as magicarp said is also good for practical reasons, I also think culturally it is something one might find more on a senior level nurse. To the doc she is highlighting all of the above which IMO is a display of proficiency at her job. In much more basic terms saying “look how good I am” or a peacock going full plume

 

[katydid23]

Lucy Letby 'hugged mother after trying to kill her baby three times'

Lucy Letby is accused of trying to kill Child N three times while working as a neonatal nurse at the Countess of Chester Hospital. She denies all charges against her.

www.dailymail.co.uk

In a statement, the child's father said he received a phone call from Letby on the day the baby was due to be discharged, June 15, having spent 13 days on the neonatal unit.

'Lucy said (Child N) had been a bit unwell in the night but she said he was OK now,' the statement read.

He said Letby did not give him any more information and he did not get the impression the baby was still unwell, but 10 minutes later his partner rang after speaking to the hospital and said they needed to go in.

When they got there, the baby, who has blood clotting condition haemophilia, was in intensive care and Letby was by his bed, he said.

'Lucy just said, Hi, he's been a bit unwell in the night'. I felt shocked looking at him,' he said.

He described the infant's skin as a bluish colour and said he could see blood around his lips. He added that there was 'lots of blood spattered on him…a dark reddy-brown colour'.

He said the baby's condition deteriorated twice more, once when he and his partner left to get food, and again when they left to seek medical advice for his partner, who was feeling unwell.

He said Letby approached them as they were waiting for the baby to be transferred to Merseyside's Alder Hey Children's Hospital, where he made a full recovery.

'Lucy then came up to us,' he said. 'She told us she'd stayed on late past the end of her shift and she said to (my partner), 'I hope he's OK' and gave my partner a hug.

'She might have given (my partner) a kiss, I'm not sure.'

 

[bbsaz]

Court now being shown messages between Ms Letby and colleagues that evening. A doctor, who cannot be named for legal reasons, asked her if she was okay and told her to cry if she needed to.

Ms Letby responded: 'I’m ok just feel like ive been running around all day and not really achieved anything positive for him….don’t want to cry in front of people here maybe when I’m home'

(BBM)
The tone of this just feels so familiar to previous messages about how she will be ok....

She will soldier on. What a hero...
IMO

 

[Tortoise]

Is it kind of weird that a doctor on his shift, in NICU, would even be checking his Facebook messages?

It's not clear to me whether he was on shift. The collapse happened at 7.15am, before handover to day shift staff. Doctors worked different shifts from the nurses but not sure what those were.

He messaged her at 11am and her response including a line about wearing her hair in a bun was at 11.29am

 

[katydid23]

In a statement, the baby's mother said: 'Lucy was our main point of contact through the day because she was tending to (Child N) in between consultants being with him.

'We had (Child N) baptised during the day and that was recommended to us by Lucy.'

In written statements read to the court, the parents expressed surprise that the neonatal unit had no Factor 8 for their baby, even though they were aware he had haemophilia.

At one point a specialist haemophilia nurse had been sent from Alder Hey Children's Hospital to bring some factor in a taxi.

The father added: 'I remember feeling confused because his sats seemed normal. No one told us what (had) happened or why'.

Lucy Letby 'hugged mother after trying to kill her baby three times'

Lucy Letby is accused of trying to kill Child N three times while working as a neonatal nurse at the Countess of Chester Hospital. She denies all charges against her.

www.dailymail.co.uk

In this^^^ article they lay out the texts between her and coworker about the flirty doctor---and they even describe the EMOJIS being used.

 

[Tortoise]

In a statement, the baby's mother said: 'Lucy was our main point of contact through the day because she was tending to (Child N) in between consultants being with him.

'We had (Child N) baptised during the day and that was recommended to us by Lucy.'

In written statements read to the court, the parents expressed surprise that the neonatal unit had no Factor 8 for their baby, even though they were aware he had haemophilia.

At one point a specialist haemophilia nurse had been sent from Alder Hey Children's Hospital to bring some factor in a taxi.

The father added: 'I remember feeling confused because his sats seemed normal. No one told us what (had) happened or why'.

Lucy Letby 'hugged mother after trying to kill her baby three times'

Lucy Letby is accused of trying to kill Child N three times while working as a neonatal nurse at the Countess of Chester Hospital. She denies all charges against her.

www.dailymail.co.uk

In this^^^ article they lay out the texts between her and coworker about the flirty doctor---and they even describe the EMOJIS being used.

I think Chester Standard has the fullest transcript of the text exchange, they went back later and updated their update with more text.


The conversation continues about discussion of other babies, and Letby messages her colleague: 'Had strange message from [doctor] earlier...'
Reply: 'Did u? Saying what?' 'Go commando? (cry laughing emoji)
Letby: (4 x cry laughing emojis)
Letby: 'Asking when I was working next week as wants to talk to me about something, has a favour to ask..?'
R: 'Think he likes you too...'
R: 'Hmm did u not ask what it was?'
LL: 'No just said when I was working and he said wants my opinion on something'
LL: Hmm... confused emoji
R: 'Hmm'
LL: 'Do you think he's being odd?
R: 'Thought as flirty as u'
LL: 'Shut up!'
R: 'What?!'
LL: 'I don't flirt with him!'
R: 'Ok'
LL: 'Certainly don't fancy him haha just nice guy'
R: 'Ok'

update timed 11.26am
Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Thursday, March 2

 

[ColourPurple]

Lucy Letby 'hugged mother after trying to kill her baby three times'

Lucy Letby is accused of trying to kill Child N three times while working as a neonatal nurse at the Countess of Chester Hospital. She denies all charges against her.

www.dailymail.co.uk

In a statement, the child's father said he received a phone call from Letby on the day the baby was due to be discharged, June 15, having spent 13 days on the neonatal unit.

Another potential pattern. Babies deteriorating on the day they're about to be discharged or transferred. As well on significant dates like the 100 day birthday, due date etc.

 

[katydid23]

It's not clear to me whether he was on shift. The collapse happened at 7.15am, before handover to day shift staff. Doctors worked different shifts from the nurses but not sure what those were.

He messaged her at 11am and her response including a line about wearing her hair in a bun was at 11.29am

Oh, I thought she was on the day shift at this time. I will have to go look---

I think she was maybe on day shifts ? :

In a statement, the child's father said he received a phone call from Letby on the day the baby was due to be discharged, June 15, having spent 13 days on the neonatal unit.

'Lucy said (Child N) had been a bit unwell in the night but she said he was OK now,' the statement read.

He said Letby did not give him any more information and he did not get the impression the baby was still unwell, but 10 minutes later his partner rang after speaking to the hospital and said they needed to go in.



In a statement, the baby's mother said: 'Lucy was our main point of contact through the day because she was tending to (Child N) in between consultants being with him.

'We had (Child N) baptised during the day and that was recommended to us by Lucy.'


When they got there, the baby, who has blood clotting condition haemophilia, was in intensive care and Letby was by his bed, he said.

'Lucy just said, Hi, he's been a bit unwell in the night'. I felt shocked looking at him,' he said.

He described the infant's skin as a bluish colour and said he could see blood around his lips. He added that there was 'lots of blood spattered on him…a dark reddy-brown colour'.

He said the baby's condition deteriorated twice more, once when he and his partner left to get food, and again when they left to seek medical advice for his partner, who was feeling unwell.

He said Letby approached them as they were waiting for the baby to be transferred to Merseyside's Alder Hey Children's Hospital, where he made a full recovery.

Lucy Letby 'hugged mother after trying to kill her baby three times'

Lucy Letby is accused of trying to kill Child N three times while working as a neonatal nurse at the Countess of Chester Hospital. She denies all charges against her.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Maybe she stayed way past her 'end of shift'? But she seemed to be there much of the day according to the parents.

 

[ColourPurple]

It's not clear to me whether he was on shift. The collapse happened at 7.15am, before handover to day shift staff. Doctors worked different shifts from the nurses but not sure what those were.

He messaged her at 11am and her response including a line about wearing her hair in a bun was at 11.29am

But she's referencing how she may have been off with him during the resus when the other nurse was "faffing" so he must have been there at the 7.15 resus.
She started her shift/got to the hospital at 7.10am

 

[katydid23]

Didn't they say that LL punched in at 7:10 am and the baby collapsed 5 minutes later?