UK - Nurse Lucy Letby Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #13

[Marie Bell]

Yes, and sometimes I think they've shown her texting purely to show how unoccupied she was with her babies. That convo with the doctor was a particularly long one, while life was in the balance for baby N, and I think they've even left out some parts by all accounts. JMO

I've just been reading the other thread (court reports only) from the beginning, and have noted that in the first days of the prosecution case, when texts were first appearing, the prosecution said that they would deal with the texts, i.e, explain and give context to them, presumably, at a later date. So I envisage a court session or two will be devoted purely to these. Could be something as basic as the prosecution contending they show the level of deception they say she was a carrying on, and her disregard of the pain and suffering of the parents. Obviously the Defence will say 'don't be ridiculous, these show absolutely normal behaviour and concerns'. It's only in the event of a Guilty verdict, and thus the prosecution making its case, that they would play into the sentencing remarks.

 

[Parker Knoll]

The texts will slot into place over the remaining babies and resting of the prosecutions case for sure. They don’t include unnecessary evidence for absolutely no reason.
Just catching up …. On a side and most trivial note hell would of frozen over before I went on holiday with my parents at her age. I literally cannot think of anything worse.

 

[katydid23]

I think this is such a strange thing to say.

She might as well have said 'I'd have preferred a packet of crisps but ah well I'll eat it'

I think it's tactless

JMO

I thought it was strange too. Kind of like a passive/aggressive reaction to someone doing something nice for her.

paraphrased: "Hey, I've hidden you some chocolate for your walk home, to make you feel better about your rubbish shift today. "

LL translation: "Oh, thanks, too bad I don't really like chocolate that much but I guess I'll eat it anyway...whatever"

 

[Dotta]

What I just can't wrap my poor head around is the sheer amount of deaths/collapses/
babies left brain damaged in such a short time

What was it?
What was wrong?
It certainly was NOT normal in this day and age.

Alarms should have been loudly sounding/screeching!!!

ALERT!

JMO

 

[katydid23]

Preferring is different to not usually eating. It's a negative response to a positive gesture. Almost as if it had to be known that despite him trying it's "just a shame". All my own irrelevant thoughts.

Yes, it seemed like a negative response that was unnecessary.

I agree with you in that he was trying to do something nice for her and it seemed he fancied her and wanted to show her that.

In that situation, if you do like the guy and want him to continue in that vein, you best praise his actions, as a way to encourage him. Who cares if chocolate is your favourite or not? It's the thought and the effort that counts. As you get to know him better you can tell him if you like muffins or jelly beans better than chocolate. JMO

 

[Parker Knoll]

I read the chocolate message as down right rude to be honest …. It would of been the last bar I bought her !
The guy must be absolutely mortified now it’s all seeping out.

 

[Sweeper2000]

Anyone want to speculate on why the exchanges between her and this doc are significant enough to be admitted as evidence in court?

im struggling tbh.

if someone i liked said something like that about a gift I bought them I would say ,”oh sorry next time I will buy you a rose and it’s going to have the biggest thorns on it you have ever seen or felt”

 

[DianaWW]

Anyone want to speculate on why the exchanges between her and this doc are significant enough to be admitted as evidence in court?

im struggling tbh.

if someone i liked said something like that about a gift I bought them I would say ,”oh sorry next time I will buy you a rose and it’s going to have the biggest thorns on it you have ever seen or felt”

I really don’t know what the relevance is yet either…really hoping it all becomes clear!

 

[Sweeper2000]

I really don’t know what the relevance is yet either…really hoping it all becomes clear!

Maybe just maybe they will be prominent in the next few cases. O and p being two of triplets and one happening the day after the other might be something. a chance to impress maybe.

 

[Dotta]

if someone i liked said something like that about a gift I bought them I would say ,”oh sorry next time I will buy you a rose and it’s going to have the biggest thorns on it you have ever seen or felt”

A rose with thorns has a meaning:
Love cannot exist without sacrifice and pain.

Every real rose has its thorns

 

[Sweeper2000]

A rose with thorns has a meaning:
Love cannot exist without sacrifice and pain.

Every real rose has its thorns

You might like this little thing Dotta. Quite amazing writing really. Off topic though.

Then cried the gentle Poet: 'Not one among ye knows: The cruelest thorn, I know it, For having kissed the Rose.'

wilfred Owen.

The First World War Poetry Digital Archive

ww1lit.nsms.ox.ac.uk

 

[Dotta]

You might like this little thing Dotta. Quite amazing writing really. Off topic though.

Then cried the gentle Poet: 'Not one among ye knows: The cruelest thorn, I know it, For having kissed the Rose.'

wilfred Owen.

The First World War Poetry Digital Archive

ww1lit.nsms.ox.ac.uk

"There may be many flowers in one’s life…but only one rose.” – Anonymous

 

[Marantz4250b]

But it shows tactlessness, would you agree?

You know, if your friend gave you something to cheer you up would you say anything about it is a shame, unless you were allergic to it or diabetic or something?

We've seen other examples of tactlessness with parents of the babies and people say we don't know 100% it was her, but here we can say it is definitely her.

Tact is to do with a care for other people.

It is very relevant to understand a person on trial, as much as possible. Her personality is behind everything she does, whether that is directly connected with alleged crimes or not.

IMO


And to answer your question I have been hypothyroid for 20 years and I have never had a problem with chocolate or been advised not to eat it, but I am sure there will be someone somewhere who says it causes them problems.

No. To me it's far from tactless but I guess it's down to personal opinion. I think it can easily be interpreted as "...well, I don't normally eat chocolate but as its you and I really like you, I'll happily have it...". Also, let's remember that these two know each other pretty well - he likely knows that she hardly ever eats chocolate which makes her response completely normal. And, she probably does eat chocolate as one of the pics doing the rounds of her is of her with a Freddo bar.

I knew I'd read something about thyroid issues and choccy;

Is chocolate good for hyperthyroidism?​

Foods and beverages that contain caffeine, such as coffee, tea, soda, and *chocolate*, can exacerbate the symptoms of hyperthyroidism and lead to increased anxiety, nervousness, irritability, and rapid heart rate. If caffeine has this effect on you, avoiding or limiting your intake may be a good option.

Is chocolate good for hyperthyroidism?

Foods and beverages that contain caffeine, such as coffee, tea, soda, and chocolate, can exacerbate the symptoms of hyperthyroidism and lead to increased anxiety,

www.calendar-canada.ca

 

[DianaWW]

No. To me it's far from tactless but I guess it's down to personal opinion. I think it can easily be interpreted as "...well, I don't normally eat chocolate but as its you and I really like you, I'll happily have it...". Also, let's remember that these two know each other pretty well - he likely knows that she hardly ever eats chocolate which makes her response completely normal. And, she probably does eat chocolate as one of the pics doing the rounds of her is of her with a Freddo bar.

I knew I'd read something about thyroid issues and choccy;

Is chocolate good for hyperthyroidism?​

Foods and beverages that contain caffeine, such as coffee, tea, soda, and *chocolate*, can exacerbate the symptoms of hyperthyroidism and lead to increased anxiety, nervousness, irritability, and rapid heart rate. If caffeine has this effect on you, avoiding or limiting your intake may be a good option.

Is chocolate good for hyperthyroidism?

Foods and beverages that contain caffeine, such as coffee, tea, soda, and chocolate, can exacerbate the symptoms of hyperthyroidism and lead to increased anxiety,

www.calendar-canada.ca

She has hypothyroidism which is different IMO.

And I don’t think we can definitely say they knew each other well at this stage. My interpretation is they’re getting to know each other at this point, so i don’t think we’re sure yet. JMO

 

[Marantz4250b]

Calling herself 'Serious Lucy'. Followed by 2 !!

When I read that, I instinctively thought an 'in' joke between the two of them, that maybe he'd teased her before about being or looking so serious (maybe with her hair in a bun, maybe a default facial expression she has) and it was a nod to that, her having a laugh at herself. It had that sort of knowingness about it.

Nothing remotely imo to do with her trying to impress him, as has been suggested. On the contrary.

We'll have to differ on that because I definitely think it's something to do with trying to impress him or be flirty in some way or other.

It's very obvious that these two know each other rather well so it's way past the "trying to impress him" stage, though, I think.

 

[Sweeper2000]

I think she’s probably a bit socially clueless but that doesn’t entail anything negative if the attempts are made in good heart. For instance when she spoke to the parents about the babies first bath, I think and there aren’t many options in that scenario that dutiful and mindful respect for the parents would be the most typical interactive style. Few words if any and communicate more or less by body language alone. Saying anything should be approached with great caution. Not what was experienced though. Not to say that she wasn’t trying just that it was quite beyond the line imo. Definitely not in sync with the situation but maybe was trying and that’s what matters.

 

[Marantz4250b]

This is saying the opposite though, that the reason the babies are anonymous is because of the order to grant the adult witnesses anonymity, and that identifying the babies would identify those of the adult witnesses who are their parents. And thinking of other cases, they do usually report the names of victims, even when they are children.

"It's unusual though to have adult witnesses in court granted anonymity, but in this case an Order has been made doing that, because the view of the court and the judge in the case is that that will allow those witnesses...their evidence will be better for the court if they are granted that anonymity, but what that means though is that the babies have to be given anonymity as well, because if the babies were named then that would lead to the identification of their parents"

That's not correct, though. At least in terms of the medical witnesses like this doctor she knows. When she had her upset moment the reports clearly said that she did so at the point that he gave his name!

The witnesses are not anonymous in this trial. There are reporting restrictions relating to publishing the names. Even the names of the deceased babies were given at her first Mags appearance - it was at that point the reporting restrictions were put in place and the original reports are still online we just can't like to them or publish the restricted parts.

 

[Dotta]

I really don’t know what the relevance is yet either…really hoping it all becomes clear!

I guess the point was to allude some relationship between them.

He might become a "character witness" and a credible one as he seemed to know her well.

But asked by whom:
Prosecution or Defence?

Maybe both?

Defence did not object to presenting those texts, right?

JMO

 

[DianaWW]

The babies and their parents are also named in court. However they are not allowed to be reported. Same as the witnesses. I believe that’s what the OP was referring to when they said ‘anonymous’. Or at least that’s how I read it. JMO

 

[DianaWW]

I guess the point was to allude some relationship between them.

He might become a "character witness" and a credible one as he seemed to know her well.

But asked by whom:
Prosecution or Defence?

Maybe both?

Defence did not object to presenting those texts, right?

JMO

Quite possibly! He has already appeared as a prosecution witness and I think we’ll definitely be hearing more from him.

The fact he chose to give his evidence behind a screen so he couldn’t see her is quite telling I think.