UK - Nurse Lucy Letby Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #13

[Tortoise]

Social awkwardness is when you feel uncomfortable and out of place in social situations. It feels unpleasant.
Being shy is only one of many faces of this condition.

JMO

But I used the word awkward, not socially awkward.

Awkward can be saying or doing something inappropriate that affects the feelings of others.

I have no idea how she feels in herself, socially. She does seem to enjoy dance classes and such with others, but there's not very much we know in the trial about her social life.

Shy is holding back, and I don't think she does hold back. And she was happy to be the face of the fundraising campaign in the local papers.

JMO

 

[Dotta]

I suppose you could also describe socially awkward people as different themselves as in unlike the majority of people.

I totally get what you are saying though, anxiety could definitely give off the impression of being socially awkward. For instance rushing words when speaking, stammering etc

What you described earlier seems to be "lack of social awareness" - not being able to "read" emotions of others, to "read the room" so to speak.
And it usually is a certain spectrum.

JMO

 

[ShireChe]

I'm not sure that last bit is the case; it used to be a common allowance on most policies but for quite a few years it never kicked in until the person was 25. Was this 2015 or 2016?

His offer of the car comes over as it being not the first time she'd driven his car - as though it's something he's offered before and she'd accepted but I may be reading more into it than is there. I think it's perhaps the case that she was a named driver on his policy?

If she was born in 1990 then LL would have been 25 in 2015?

 

[Dotta]

But I used the word awkward, not socially awkward.

Awkward can be saying or doing something inappropriate that affects the feelings of others.

I have no idea how she feels in herself, socially. She does seem to enjoy dance classes and such with others, but there's not very much we know in the trial about her social life.

Shy is holding back, and I don't think she does hold back. And she was happy to be the face of the fundraising campaign in the local papers.

JMO

It is the same.

Reacting awkwardly in social situations means anxiety.

Proverbial "not knowing what to do with one's hands".

Do you mean she behaved awkwardly when alone?

I don't think so.
That is why we add the word "social".

Look at her (in)famous note.
Do you think a self confident person wrote it?

Anxiety/self doubting/self condemning.

JMO

 

[Tortoise]

It is the same.

Reacting awkwardly in social situations means anxiety.

Proverbial "not knowing what to do with one's hands".

Do you mean she behaved awkwardly when alone?

I don't think so.
That is why we add the word "social".

Look at her (in)famous note.
Do you think a self confident person wrote it?

Anxiety/self doubting/self condemning.

JMO

I don't agree it's the same.

I haven't seen any evidence that she feels anxiety about the things she does and says.

Awkward has its own stand alone meaning separate from socially awkward.

She doesn't know how someone else will feel if she says or does something, and it means clumsy, saying the wrong thing, often with shocking effect on the recipient, in the examples we've heard. It's different from crippling shyness or lack of confidence. Quite the opposite, IMO.

So on that note I will agree to disagree, and move on.

 

[DinerMite]

LL: What do you think caused his (Child N's) bleed?'
Doc: 'I think there will be a haemangioma or collection. If it was epiglottitis his crp should have been higher because he was starting to become unwell'. Doctor says he's 'optimistic he'll be okay'

The way it's written sounds like maybe epiglottitis had been suggested as a possible cause already imo

...had to Google what it means though:
Epiglottitis is inflammation and swelling of the epiglottis. It's often caused by an infection, but can also sometimes happen as a result of a throat injury.

Epiglottitis

Although as the good Doc said its unlikely to epiglottitis as that's usually caused by infection meaning his CRP should have been higher.

Just rambling my own thoughts again

 

[marynnu]

I've been asking myself how likely a spontaneous bleed is with mild haemophilia. Apologies if this is not allowed, or has been posted before. I just found it informative.

Types of Haemophilia - The Haemophilia Society

There are two types of haemophilia: Both types of haemophilia have the same symptoms and are inherited in... Read more

haemophilia.org.uk

 

[marynnu]

I've been asking myself how likely a spontaneous bleed is with mild haemophilia. Apologies if this is not allowed, or has been posted before. I just found it informative.

Types of Haemophilia - The Haemophilia Society

There are two types of haemophilia: Both types of haemophilia have the same symptoms and are inherited in... Read more

haemophilia.org.uk

 

[Sweeper2000]

Quick change of subject. Does anyone know what the difference is between levels of AE?

so I would assume there is a amount of air bubbles in the blood that can be harmless? Perhaps not even noticed. Any Ideas on what that level could be?

we also I think can assume there is a potential flow of air in the blood that again possibly be of no ill effect whatsoever so can we put a number on that as well?

im just trying to put into context Dr. Evans offering of his reasons for saying something along the lines of a certain amount would be pushed through to cause the event over “several minutes”. exactly how would that operate and what equipment would be necessary to be in line with that?

 

[Sweeper2000]

What you described earlier seems to be "lack of social awareness" - not being able to "read" emotions of others, to "read the room" so to speak.
And it usually is a certain spectrum.

JMO

That’s kind of what it is I suppose. Inability to put oneself accurately in the minds of others.

absolutely not need of any negative attached to it especially when that part is about practiced and refined approach. a Lack of exchange in flow can easily be compensated for.

 

[katydid23]

I don't go with that theory - I think that the initial reports of her being "quiet and a bit awkward" are taking too much hold in people's minds. She is clearly very normally sociable. This is why I initially became so interested in this case because I can't think of any others where the people found guilty have been sociable people with a wide circle of friends as she clearly has.

All of her pics are either with other people or are taken by other people. She comes over as completely and utterly normal and respectable in every sense, which is why I will be utterly blown away if she's actually guilty.

AMOO, obvs.

I don't think that holds true, that those found guilty rarely have a wide circle of friends and are sociable people.

Alex Murdaugh was just sentenced to two life terms for double murder and he was very popular and was considered a very good friend with a large prominent social circle of life long friends. His friends and colleagues were shocked when they heard the evidence against him.

 

[marynnu]

Quick change of subject. Does anyone know what the difference is between levels of AE?

so I would assume there is a amount of air bubbles in the blood that can be harmless? Perhaps not even noticed. Any Ideas on what that level could be?

we also I think can assume there is a potential flow of air in the blood that again possibly be of no ill effect whatsoever so can we put a number on that as well?

im just trying to put into context Dr. Evans offering of his reasons for saying something along the lines of a certain amount would be pushed through to cause the event over “several minutes”. exactly how would that operate and what equipment would be necessary to be in line with that?

All JMO

I think Dr. Evans was suggesting that air was injected into the giving set (tubing) via the port near the baby. This would take some time to reach the bloodstream, as infusions for small newborns are typically quite slow - maybe 3-5mls an hour. The port is normally used for drugs such as antibiotics, and you have to flush the port afterwards for that very reason.

I know nothing about AE!

 

[katydid23]

Being shy and being socially awkward are not necessarily the same. It's completely irrelevant to the case in hand anyway, as it's unlikely you'd cope with being a nurse if you have crippling social anxiety disorder. Which LL manifestly does not have.

I am not sure that it is completely irrelevant, if it is true, that she is socially awkward in potentially romantic exchanges.

Why do I say that? I think, IF the prosecution's allegations prove to be true, then she may have been depressed and resentful about being single, and spending her vacation time with her elderly parents as an only child.

She was young, successful, attractive and intelligent. Could it have been that awkwardness which was making it hard for her to truly connect and establish a solid relationship?

 

[Becci]

All JMO

I think Dr. Evans was suggesting that air was injected into the giving set (tubing) via the port near the baby. This would take some time to reach the bloodstream, as infusions for small newborns are typically quite slow - maybe 3-5mls an hour. The port is normally used for drugs such as antibiotics, and you have to flush the port afterwards for that very reason.

I know nothing about AE!

Hi did neonates sometimes scream if they were hungry?

 

[WaxLyrical]

I've been asking myself how likely a spontaneous bleed is with mild haemophilia. Apologies if this is not allowed, or has been posted before. I just found it informative.

Types of Haemophilia - The Haemophilia Society

There are two types of haemophilia: Both types of haemophilia have the same symptoms and are inherited in... Read more

haemophilia.org.uk

In the opening speeches Dr Sandi Bohin described the haemophilia as “only moderate”. So although the word mild is being thrown around, I’m not sure Baby N’s haemophilia is actually categorised as “mild”. Although I think we can be sure it’s not “severe”.

 

[marynnu]

Hi did neonates sometimes scream if they were hungry?

Yes, though this increases with gestation. So in general terms IMO a 34 weeker is quieter than a term baby, until they too get to term of course! The implication here is that this 'screaming' was different for Baby N.

 

[marynnu]

In the opening speeches Dr Sandi Bohin described the haemophilia as “only moderate”. So although the word mild is being thrown around, I’m not sure Baby N’s haemophilia is actually categorised as “mild”. Although I think we can be sure it’s not “severe”.

I also checked out spontaneous bleeding with haemophilia, and as far as I can tell this is only a feature of severe forms of the condition. Happy to be corrected!

 

[Sweeper2000]

But I used the word awkward, not socially awkward.

Awkward can be saying or doing something inappropriate that affects the feelings of others.

I have no idea how she feels in herself, socially. She does seem to enjoy dance classes and such with others, but there's not very much we know in the trial about her social life.

Shy is holding back, and I don't think she does hold back. And she was happy to be the face of the fundraising campaign in the local papers.

JMO

What makes you think she feels anything?

 

[notsure]

I disagree here. I think there may be a confusion in translation here but being "mildly socially awkward" is nothing, really. It's just a mild awkwardness interacting with people and perhaps a bit of a lack of confidence in social situations. It's nothing to do with anxiety.

I know people, especially women, who are extremely socially confident and not awkward in any sense at all but who are sometimes afflicted with crippling anxiety.

Deleted - not relevant to discussion

 

[Sweeper2000]

All JMO

I think Dr. Evans was suggesting that air was injected into the giving set (tubing) via the port near the baby. This would take some time to reach the bloodstream, as infusions for small newborns are typically quite slow - maybe 3-5mls an hour. The port is normally used for drugs such as antibiotics, and you have to flush the port afterwards for that very reason.

I know nothing about AE!

Tbh I really didn’t get what he was sayin, for instance how it got round the air monitor on the pump for instance. He gave an approximate value of .8 ml of air per minute. I’m not sure how that ties in with the port and infusion cycle.