UK - Nurse Lucy Letby Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #13

[Tortoise]

But at the same time, before the early morning of 15th June this baby was well and ready to be discharged. So baby N was not having regular desaturations before the 15th. He suddenly went down hill, and so far it seems no one knows why. Blood screens revealed no infection, and his haemophilia is a mild one. So his sudden deterioration with no medical explanation fits the other cases. The only difference is that LL wasn't present when he started deteriorating.

It's possible that an explanation will be given whereby the prosecution will argue that LL harmed the baby before she left her shift on the 14th, and that the baby either deteriorated unnoticed during the night, or suddenly crashed a few hours later. However that doesn't seem to form part of the charges. Otherwise this could seriously undermine the whole prosecution case surely - as if you accept that baby N was previously well, and then suddenly deteriorated with no medical explanation - but it wasn't down to LL - then that could also be the case for the other babies too.

On the one hand if the prosecution can convince the jury that she is guilty of just one murder, then the weight of evidence needed to convince the jury that she is guilty of any and all of the charges is lowered in my opinion. The flip side of the coin means that if the defence can show that just one of these mysterious collapses couldn't have been down to LL, then that will cast doubt on all the other cases too.

Baby N's episodes of apnoea doesn't mean that fits with the other cases where no medical explanation from the babies' medical histories could be found for unexpected sudden collapses and in some cases non-response to resuscitation.

It isn't true to say the only difference between his earlier desaturations and the ones where she is charged as that she wasn't present. The difference is the fresh bleeding in the throat and swelling, and screaming and crying. She was on shift for his last collapse that evening. The experts were obviously mindful of his propensity to desaturate starting at 1am that morning and continuing, which means it was not deemed suspicious, after the fact. JMO

 

[Tortoise]

Dan O'Donoghue

@MrDanDonoghue
·
49m

Blood expert Prof Sally Kinsey is now in the witness box. She was approached to review Child N's case

Dan O'Donoghue

@MrDanDonoghue
·
44m

Child N has a rare blood disease, Prof Kinsey is explains to the jury that this can cause 'catastrophic' bleeding following minor injury. Child N had a 'moderate' variant of the condition, she tells the court

Dan O'Donoghue

@MrDanDonoghue
·
18m

Prof Kinsey is asked whether the blood seen in Child N's throat that day could have been caused as a result of self injury or a spontaneous bleed due to his blood condition - she says no

Dan O'Donoghue

@MrDanDonoghue
·
1m

Ben Myers KC, defending, is now questioning the witness. He says his questioning will focus on whether a physical act can be established for causing the bleed

 

[ColourPurple]

Also I've just pulled up this evidence heard for baby G -

7 Sep 2015

medical notes -
2.15am - projectile vomiting and collapse
3.15am - desaturation to 20% and apnoea - decision to intubate
Dr Ventress's notes - Child G was then intubated, and 'IV vitamin K given due to blood from trachea'.
6.15am - 'Reintubated 0615 ETT with intubation drugs. Blood-stained fluid in oropharynx.
Letby had written a note, retrospectively at 8.57am, recording what happened during the night shift: [...] 'Blood noted beyond vocal cords during intubation'.

Dr Ventress's testimony -

Dr Ventress noted 'blood-stained fluid noted coming up from trachea/between cords' during intubation.

Child G was reintubated with a mild anaesthetic at 6.15am, with 'blood-stained fluid in oropharynx' noted.
Dr Ventress says the first observation of blood was in the windpipe, whereas this was more in the throat.

Mr Myers refers to the note about 'blood-stained fluid noted coming up from trachea/between cords'.
He asks if that was noted after intubation.
Dr Ventress said it was during intubation.
Mr Myers asks if it would be unusual to see that.
Dr Ventress: "It's not uncommon for the baby to [have bleeding during intubation] - it is unusual to have blood coming up from beneath the vocal cords."



Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Thursday, December 1

Ah interesting, so babies E, G and N all with similiar incidents and Dr Ventress confirming that it's unusual to have blood coming up from beneath the vocal chords

 

[Tortoise]

Dan O'Donoghue

@MrDanDonoghue
·
33s

Prof Kinsey tells the court that Child N's blood disorder did make him "more likely to bleed", but said: "He won’t just bleed for no reason."

 

[Tortoise]

Dan O'Donoghue

@MrDanDonoghue
·
19s

Medical expert Dr Dewi Evans is now in the witness box, he was asked to review the case by Cheshire Police.

 

[Tortoise]

Dan O'Donoghue

@MrDanDonoghue
·
2m

Dr Evans’ opinion is that the bleeding in Child N's throat was not caused by the attempts to intubate, but instead some preceding trauma

 

[Tortoise]

Dan O'Donoghue

@MrDanDonoghue
·
2m

Dr Evans says Child N's 'progress was pretty uneventful' and was 'making satisfactory progress for a baby that was premature but otherwise well' in the weeks from birth to 15 June

 

[Tortoise]

Dan O'Donoghue

@MrDanDonoghue
·
55s

Court being taken back over timeline of Child N's crashes on 15 June - which culminated in CPR and him having six doses of adrenaline, before he was eventually transferred to Alder Hey Hospital

 

[Tortoise]

Dan O'Donoghue

@MrDanDonoghue
·
53s

Dr Evans is giving his analysis on Child N's first collapse on June 3. The baby suffered a profound and sudden collapse in the early hours of that day. This was preceded by, what one doctor recalled, as 'screaming' - Dr Evans said that is 'very unusual' for a child of this age

 

[Tortoise]

Dan O'Donoghue

@MrDanDonoghue
·
3m

Dr Evans says he went and reviewed scientific research papers on air embolus (injection of air) - these found that in some cases where babies had been injected accidently with air, there was a period of screaming before desaturation an death


Dan O'Donoghue

@MrDanDonoghue
·
2m

He said what happened with Child N was 'repeated' in what we have seen in previous cases

 

[Tortoise]

https://twitter.com/MrDanDonoghue
Dan O'Donoghue

@MrDanDonoghue
·
3m

On the 15 June incident, Dr Evans said in his opinion the bleeding 'was a result of trauma to his upper airway'

 

[Tortoise]

still no mention of the elusive factor 8

or the x-ray

 

[JosieJo]

Dan O'Donoghue
@MrDanDonoghue
·
53s

Dr Evans is giving his analysis on Child N's first collapse on June 3. The baby suffered a profound and sudden collapse in the early hours of that day. This was preceded by, what one doctor recalled, as 'screaming' - Dr Evans said that is 'very unusual' for a child of this age

Was LL on duty at the time? On 3rd I'm confused

 

[Jazmania]

Was LL on duty at the time? On 3rd I'm confused

Yes, the 3rd was the first attempted murder charge. It happened very soon after the designated nurse went on their lunch break I believe.

 

[JosieJo]

Yes, the 3rd was the first attempted murder charge. It happened very soon after the designated nurse went on their lunch break I believe.

Yes of course thanks ..getting mixed up

 

[Tortoise]

Dan O'Donoghue

@MrDanDonoghue
·
3m

We're back after a short break. Ms Letby's defence lawyer Ben Myers KC is now questioning Dr Evans

 

[Tortoise]

Was LL on duty at the time? On 3rd I'm confused

just in case you missed it there's a detailed timeline of the 1st allegation on page 12 of this thread and the 2nd and 3rd allegations on page 13.

 

[Tortoise]

Dan O'Donoghue

@MrDanDonoghue
·
1m

Mr Myers points out that Dr Evans wrote several reports on the collapse of Child N. In his first report written in 2018, the medic didn't mention the incident on 3 June. He tells Mr Myers he 'overlooked' it and later included in subsequent reports

Dan O'Donoghue

@MrDanDonoghue
·
43s

Mr Myers says 'if you considered it significant you would have said so in your first report'

 

[JosieJo]

just in case you missed it there's a detailed timeline of the 1st allegation on page 12 of this thread and the 2nd and 3rd allegations on page 13.

Great thanks I've missed some this week

 

[Tortoise]

Dan O'Donoghue

@MrDanDonoghue
·
1m

Mr Myers puts it to Dr Evans that there is 'nothing' in the medical notes for Child N 'to support a suggestion that there was an inflicted injury'. Dr Evans disagrees, he says that was his opinion when he authored his report in 2019 and says 'that is my opinion now'