UK - Nurse Lucy Letby Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #13

[ColourPurple]

,

So I'm a bit behind today but I just wanted to make a point about the offer from the doctor to lend LL his car. Apologies if everyone already knows this but I'm thinking of members who may not be from the UK, because it's a little different here. I've lived abroad and I know in many countries, it's the car itself which is insured, so people would lend each other their cars to use quite freely. However, in England, it's generally the driver who is insured to drive that particular car so it's a completely different ball game. When I've driven my mum's car in the past she has called the insurance company and added me to the insurance policy as a named driver. So in my experience, it's not common for people to lend each other their cars here unless it's someone you know very well, and the borrower would usually be added to the insurance. JMO.

If they were going to be driving it on a regular basis you might add them to the insurance, but not for a one off short journey you wouldn't. (on the assumption they already had their own insurance that covered them to drive other cars 3rd party)

 

[ColourPurple]

I wonder if the alder hey specialist didn’t observe any remarkable swelling on the basis that swelling is common with haemophilia, and given that the alder hey docs saw this condition all the time (in comparison to COCH staff) , it was a normal presentation in his opinion for a baby with haemophilia ?

Just spitballing ideas, as I agree with the other poster that it seems unlikely that adrenaline would make swelling disappear completely.

You'd still observe it. ie. It would still be there if it was there. Sounds like by the time they got there at 7.40pm the swelling that was present at 7.30am and 3pm had reduced

 

[marynnu]

I would have thought that some kind of tool would be used to see down the throat? Get the doctor going say “arrrrrr” thing but obviously can’t do that with a baby. This Epiglottitis is it far down or near the top? wiki says it’s attached to the voice box. Can’t quite say exactly where this injury is but one would think the Epiglottitis is the most likely spot.

A laryngoscope is used to see down the throat in order to intubate. A tongue depressor could be used in a child, but I don't think it would be used in a neonate.

 

[ColourPurple]

I know it's not a massively important aspect, verdict wise, but I wanted to hear more about the Factor 8.

The parents have said LL was the one updating them and that they were surprised the hospital didn't have any factor 8, and that a nurse from Alder Hey had had to bring some over in a taxi at one point. We've heard that the other Alder Hey specialists arrived around 7.30pm but not when the nurse arrvied. But I'm assuming it was before 11.29am as LL mentions that Baby N had been given it by then.

At 11.29am Letby sent a Facebook message to the doctor telling him “small amounts of blood from mouth and 1ml from ng. Looks like pulmonary bleed on x ray [i.e. a bleed from the lungs]. Given factor 8 – wait and see”.

Recap: Prosecution opens trial of Lucy Letby accused of Countess of Chester Hospital baby murders

THE trial of former Countess of Chester Hospital nurse Lucy Letby, who is accused of multiple baby murders, is due to finalise its jury and hear…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

 

[Sundial]

So I'm a bit behind today but I just wanted to make a point about the offer from the doctor to lend LL his car. Apologies if everyone already knows this but I'm thinking of members who may not be from the UK, because it's a little different here. I've lived abroad and I know in many countries, it's the car itself which is insured, so people would lend each other their cars to use quite freely. However, in England, it's generally the driver who is insured to drive that particular car so it's a completely different ball game. When I've driven my mum's car in the past she has called the insurance company and added me to the insurance policy as a named driver. So in my experience, it's not common for people to lend each other their cars here unless it's someone you know very well, and the borrower would usually be added to the insurance. JMO.

There’s also the “fully comprehensive” insurance in the uk where you don’t necessarily need to be added as a named driver. As long as both drivers have *Fully comp* (as it is also known as) insurance on their vehicles and the other persons permission to drive it, this is also an option too (without adding named drivers onto your insurance).
My brother has borrowed my car in the past as his was in the garage. As he had fully comprehensive insurance on his own vehicle, and I had the same cover on mine, it meant he was covered without me needing to add him to my own insurance. Brits just like to complicate things really

 

[Tortoise]

Baby K podcast is out

The Trial of Lucy Letby, Episode 20: Baby K, “It didn’t really make sense to me why the tube became dislodged.”

www.mailplus.co.uk

The Trial of Lucy Letby, Episode 20: Baby K, “It didn’t really make sense to me why the tube became dislodged.”​

In this episode Caroline and Liz examine what the prosecution say happened to Baby K, an extremely premature baby girl who Lucy Letby is accused of attempting to murder by tampering with her breathing tube.

 

[WaxLyrical]

There’s also the “fully comprehensive” insurance in the uk where you don’t necessarily need to be added as a named driver. As long as both drivers have *Fully comp* (as it is also known as) insurance on their vehicles and the other persons permission to drive it, this is also an option too (without adding named drivers onto your insurance).
My brother has borrowed my car in the past as his was in the garage. As he had fully comprehensive insurance on his own vehicle, and I had the same cover on mine, it meant he was covered without me needing to add him to my own insurance. Brits just like to complicate things really

It really depends on the individual policy. Having a fully comp policy does not guarantee driving other cars the way it did in days gone by. If your policy does include it, it’s almost certain to cover the main policyholder only, and might cover 3rd pty fire and theft only. And anyone under 25 almost definitely doesn’t have it on their policy.

 

[Sundial]

It really depends on the individual policy. Having a fully comp policy does not guarantee driving other cars the way it did in days gone by. If your policy does include it, it’s almost certain to cover the main policyholder only, and might cover 3rd pty fire and theft only. And anyone under 25 almost definitely doesn’t have it on their policy.

Yeh I was just thinking that shortly after I posed showing my age.. wish they would they would just leave things as they were; even the brits can’t keep up with it ha!

 

[Sweeper2000]

Dr Choc

Agreed that we need authority on this. I'm looking forward to hearing from Professor Kinsey and the other experts.

Come on Chester Standard, you've got to be there.

I'll even send them chocolate.

They might not like it though.

 

[Dotta]

They might not like it though.

They can always "Return to Sender".
Wow, we can have Chocolate party at WS.
Can I have 2 pieces, please?
I can even promise to behave haha

 

[Sweeper2000]

They can always "Return to Sender".
Wow, we can have Chocolate party at WS.
Can I have 2 pieces, please?
I can even promise to behave haha

We should buy the ones we like in advance then lol

 

[Marantz4250b]

,


If they were going to be driving it on a regular basis you might add them to the insurance, but not for a one off short journey you wouldn't. (on the assumption they already had their own insurance that covered them to drive other cars 3rd party)

I totally disagree here; you'd absolutely make 100% sure that they were insured, either through their insurance as being entitled to drive other vehicles or by putting them on as a named driver.

Driving uninsured is a serious offence here and everyone knows it is. A doctor randomly loaning out his car to someone without absolutely knowing they're insured is bordering on the inconceivable, imo. No one "assumes" that someone is insured - you check because allowing a vehicle to be used uninsured is also an offence so both parties in up to their necks if they're caught.

Also, your first sentence kind of gets at the point ag issue - she may have been using it regularly so if she was indeed a named driver then it suggests a much more established relationship.

 

[katydid23]

Yep, no reports of mottling between 8pm and 1am, only notes to say demand feeding. So it seems to have just appeared during the night shift.

I'd like to know how many 'inspections' this sweet baby had between the handoff at around 8 pm, and the notes at 1 am about the mottled skin and distention.

LL had noted the baby had a bottle before sleep around end of her shift. If so, he probably wasn't expected to wake u0 and have another until midnight or so. The night nurse who took over a child who was about to be released for home, may have just gone in a couple of times, seen him asleep, and he was not assessed again until he became unsettled around 1 am?

Could something have happened to him around 8 pm that did not appear physically until midnight or so?

 

[Marantz4250b]

There’s also the “fully comprehensive” insurance in the uk where you don’t necessarily need to be added as a named driver. As long as both drivers have *Fully comp* (as it is also known as) insurance on their vehicles and the other persons permission to drive it, this is also an option too (without adding named drivers onto your insurance).
My brother has borrowed my car in the past as his was in the garage. As he had fully comprehensive insurance on his own vehicle, and I had the same cover on mine, it meant he was covered without me needing to add him to my own insurance. Brits just like to complicate things really

This is NOT automatic these days and hasnt been for a while. In my experience, it rarely applies to people who are under 25 these days.

Having comprehensive insurance isn't of its self cover for driving other vehicles, it still needs to be specified on the policy but commonly always was.

 

[Tortoise]

This is NOT automatic these days and hasnt been for a while. In my experience, it rarely applies to people who are under 25 these days.

Having comprehensive insurance isn't of its self cover for driving other vehicles, it still needs to be specified on the policy but commonly always was.

LL was 26 at the time.

 

[ColourPurple]

DBM as I forgot to quote

 

[Sundial]

This is NOT automatic these days and hasnt been for a while. In my experience, it rarely applies to people who are under 25 these days.

Having comprehensive insurance isn't of its self cover for driving other vehicles, it still needs to be specified on the policy but commonly always was.

Indeed; absolutely- I realised this moments after I posted and acknowledged it upthread.

 

[ColourPurple]

I totally disagree here; you'd absolutely make 100% sure that they were insured, either through their insurance as being entitled to drive other vehicles or by putting them on as a named driver.

Driving uninsured is a serious offence here and everyone knows it is. A doctor randomly loaning out his car to someone without absolutely knowing they're insured is bordering on the inconceivable, imo. No one "assumes" that someone is insured - you check because allowing a vehicle to be used uninsured is also an offence so both parties in up to their necks if they're caught.

Also, your first sentence kind of gets at the point ag issue - she may have been using it regularly so if she was indeed a named driver then it suggests a much more established relationship.

Yes I'm well aware that driving without insurance is a crime. And, as I've said to you before that if she'd accepted his offer, then a conversation may well have followed about insurance. She didn't so it didn't. You see the fact that he even offered, as some kind of proof that she was already a named driver on his insurance and therefore in an established relationship with him. It isn't!

 

[rjay]

I wonder if baby N had an allergy to the formula and in combination with the blood disorder, resulted in the swelling, redness and bleeding of the epiglottis?

Just thinking out loud…

It seems to me this child went through a lot of procedures before he passed. He was weak to begin with, then suffered a lot of trauma with someone trying to shove a tube down his throat many many times, and then pumping him full of adrenaline, riding some twisted modern day rollercoaster drug ride. And then they question the nurse who happens to work in an area of the hospital with probably the highest risk and most vulnerable patients?

<modsnip - sub judice>

All my own opinions.

<modsnip - sub judice>

 

[esther43]

Strange he can’t see an origin of the blood. One would think injury and resulting bleed would be noticeable if caused by an implement ie ng tube.

I think if it was caused by an Ng the injury could be quite far down, but even if it was caused by a suction catheter and was higher up the swelling could make it hard to see the source of the bleeding and of course the blood itself.