UK - Nurse Lucy Letby Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #13

[Sweeper2000]

I don’t think we will hear anything else about this 7.15 alleged attempt. Ive heard enough on this one.

 

[marynnu]

so do they know exactly what equipment was used for treatment here? Or is it all standardised? or given as routine.

im wondering if this port was noted as present from get go. Also if it’s used for anti bio is there a holding capacity in ml?

I'm not 100% sure what you mean, but anyway! The tubes (giving sets) which lead from the bag to the baby are pretty standard. They have a clamp to stop the flow & a rubber port at the far end, near to the baby. You can also add extra small extension lines which can have multiple ports for extra infusions or drugs.
Either way, there is always at least one port.

 

[Tortoise]

Dan O'Donoghue

@MrDanDonoghue
·
1h

Citing his notes, Dr Gibbs recalls that a specialist team had been called to help doctors with Child N's breathing (due to various problems with trying to intubate)

The team from Alder Hey Children's Hospital arrived in Chester at 19:20. They were made up of experienced intensive care consultants and an ear, nose and throat surgeon. Plan was to take Child N try to intubate, if that failed an emergency tracheostomy would take place

Dr Gibbs tells the court that Child N suffered a 'sudden deterioration' before the team could carry out the procedure however. Heart rate dropped to 60bpm, oxygen dropped to 40% - 'clear he was not being ventilated properly', Dr Gibbs said

At this point, Dr Gibbs said chest compressions were started and six doses of adrenaline were given over 30mins. A specialist doctor from Alder Hey also finally managed to intubate the baby, which allowed him to be placed on a ventilator

Asked for his conclusions about the events of June 15, Dr Gibbs says the blood could have been a result of a bleed on the lung - but adds 'why (Child N) had that swelling documented by colleagues, I really don’t know'

Dr Gibbs says that 'in the end I don’t think infection was the cause' of Child N's collapse

Dr Stephen Brearey is now in the witness box. He was on duty on the afternoon of June 15. He was called to help with Child N by a colleague as doctors were having difficulty intubating the infant

Dr Brearey made an unsuccessful attempt to intubate the baby boy. He tells the court from reviewing his notes it wasn't successful due to blood and swelling at the back of Child N's throat, which blocked vision of his airway

Mr Myers is now questioning Dr Brearey, he's asking him about Child N's blood disorder, which increases the risk of bleeding

Mr Myers is taking the court back over notes of that day, they show that there was seven attempts to intubate Child N (before Alder Hey team succeeded). Mr Myers asks if this is something that should have been possible to do, he replies 'in normal circumstances yes'

The medic tells the court that he 'can think of no natural, normal cause for why (Child N) deteriorated multiple times' and then improved afterwards at Alder Hey

Dr Francis Potter is now in the witness box. He was part of the Alder Hey team that assisted on June 15 - he said he remembers the case as it was 'quite unusual' for his team to get a call to go out and assist

He says when he arrived Child N was 'mottled and grey' in appearance - he recalls starting use of a bag and mask to ventilate the baby boy. When this didn't work, chest compressions were commenced

 

[Tortoise]

Dan O'Donoghue

@MrDanDonoghue
·
1m

Dr Potter says after Child N stabilised and was transported to Alder Hey he recovered 'fairly rapidly' - within 48hrs he had left intensive care

 

[GoodDayToYouSir]

Interesting that baby N developed that mottling at 1 am on 15 June, which is several hours after LL finished her shift. Don’t know how that potentially affects the other cases where there was mottling that suddenly resolved.

 

[Bethan]

A medic who has to google "hemophilia"!
Wow

Not necessarily Wow! I imagine she was actually googling the ‘inheritance of haemophilia’, rather than the basic facts about the disorder.
( which is probably something I myself would Google to check if I had remembered correctly from medical school days.

Inheritance is a little complex as there are 2 types of haemophilia, & the abnormal gene is located on the X chromosome, so it depends which parent is affected, whether a parent is a haemophiliac or carrier and the sex of the baby, meaning there are a number of variable combinations!

I wouldn’t necessarily expect a nurse know this or remember this off the top of her head.

The second text saying “complex” & a “50/50 chance” confirms this to be the context.

Im reading a little behind so apologies if this has been said already.

 

[Tortoise]

We missed a lot of the most crucial evidence today. Based on the times of the tweets the doctor who tried to perform the first intubation was in the witness box for over 1.5 hours. I'm hopeful the Mail Podcast should have more detail on this when it's released. I'm also hoping (as ever!) that Chester Standard will be there tomorrow for the experts testimonies, which should give us more information about the 7.15am collapse.

 

[Tortoise]

Dan O'Donoghue

@MrDanDonoghue
·
18m

Mr Myers is now questioning the medic. He asks whether repeated attempts to intubate could cause stress to the baby, he says it would cause stress to the person trying to intubate

Dan O'Donoghue

@MrDanDonoghue
·
15m

He said 'failure makes the second attempt more difficult and third more difficult'...he adds that rather than making repeated attempts, they should be limited and someone with more experience should be called to help quickly

 

[Dotta]

This torture of Baby N is simply awful

 

[ColourPurple]

..

Dan O'Donoghue
@MrDanDonoghue
·
7m

Myers is asking the doctor when he saw the blood in Child N's throat. He said 'I believe blood was there at insertion attempt number one' Myers puts it to him that 'if you can't see, you wouldn't attempt it?' He replies:'You can do, if quite certain of position'



Dan O'Donoghue
@MrDanDonoghue
·
2m

Mr Myers has just quoted the doctor's police statement from 2018. In this he says he was 'not sure' if the bleeding was his 'fault' due to his attempts to move the tongue with a medical implement to intubate

Is this Dr NiceGuy who bought LL chocolate? So he could end up being blamed for the bleeding if nobody can confirm it was there from attempt one? If so, what a plot twist.

Although the swelling was apparently already there which is why they were having problems intubating in the first place.

 

[DinerMite]

Dan O'Donoghue
@MrDanDonoghue
·
18m

Mr Myers is now questioning the medic. He asks whether repeated attempts to intubate could cause stress to the baby, he says it would cause stress to the person trying to intubate

Dan O'Donoghue
@MrDanDonoghue
·
15m

He said 'failure makes the second attempt more difficult and third more difficult'...he adds that rather than making repeated attempts, they should be limited and someone with more experience should be called to help quickly

And there's the defense case for Baby N

IMO

 

[DinerMite]

..



Is this Dr NiceGuy who bought LL chocolate? So he could end up being blamed for the bleeding if nobody can confirm it was there from attempt one? If so, what a plot twist.

Although the swelling was apparently already there which is why they were having problems intubating in the first place.

Quite intriguing indeed

 

[ColourPurple]

We missed a lot of the most crucial evidence today. Based on the times of the tweets the doctor who tried to perform the first intubation was in the witness box for over 1.5 hours. I'm hopeful the Mail Podcast should have more detail on this when it's released. I'm also hoping (as ever!) that Chester Standard will be there tomorrow for the experts testimonies, which should give us more information about the 7.15am collapse.

I hope so!. Just catching up and I expected to have loads to read back but there's barely anything really.

 

[Dotta]

I see striking similarities to the case of Baby E.

JMO

 

[Tortoise]

Asked about his recollection of that morning, he said: "I saw blood at the back of the throat, blood that prevented me seeing where the entry to his airway was.
"I also recall that the back of the throat looked unusual, there was a degree of swelling."


10% BBC
Doctors saw blood in baby's throat, nurse trial told

 

[Sundial]

..



Is this Dr NiceGuy who bought LL chocolate? So he could end up being blamed for the bleeding if nobody can confirm it was there from attempt one? If so, what a plot twist.

Although the swelling was apparently already there which is why they were having problems intubating in the first place.

I have wondered this too previously, whether *DrNice* may have had some kind of discussion further with LL about this; all very messy regardless imo. That poor baby

 

[Tortoise]

[...]

Prosecutor Simon Driver asked: “ What did you notice first?”

The doctor replied: “I think I will have seen the blood first because that is such an unusual thing to see at the time of intubation.”

He said he could not see where the blood was coming from or what had caused the swelling.

The doctor told Ben Myers KC, defending, that he had told police in 2018 that he was not sure if he had “inadvertently” caused the bleed during the procedure.

He agreed that because of Child N's haemophilia – an inherited blood clotting disorder – there was a concern he would bleed.

[...]

He [Dr Gibbs] told the court he “couldn’t understand” why two consultants, two registrars and two anaesthetists had failed previously to intubate Child N throughout the day, but said the adrenaline may have helped reduce the swelling.

[...]

Dr Potter agreed with Mr Myers that Child N was readmitted on July 3 with further episodes of apnoea, but no explanation was found and the situation settled after he was given breathing support.


Irish News ‘Unusual' presence of blood in throat of baby ‘attacked by nurse', court told

stv - ‘Unusual’ presence of blood in throat of baby ‘attacked by nurse’

 

[Sundial]

I see striking similarities to the case of Baby E.

JMO

And the blood on the face as noted by both parents for E and N. Not forgetting LL phone call to baby N father; that part I find strange too. The father recalled when he got there, she was caring for the baby, no real concern (in his testimony). All very odd.
JMO

 

[Sweeper2000]

Strange he can’t see an origin of the blood. One would think injury and resulting bleed would be noticeable if caused by an implement ie ng tube.

 

[LorriB]

So if my understanding of the prosecutions alleged events on the 15th is correct:

LL did something to injure deep in the baby's throat around 7.10 when the alarm went off whilst her colleague was also in the room? Blood is seen at 8am which is evidence of this trauma and later in the day swelling to the throat?