UK - Nurse Lucy Letby Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #13

[Legal]

I’m sure the jury all had their own scarves on too. The UK is having a collective breakdown at the moment because snow has appeared in March. We’ll be talking about this for the next 10 years at least.

I feel like I'm living in Narnia. What happened to spring!!!

 

[marynnu]

Thanks @Tortoise
My suspicion mind immediately thinks ( I may be way off here ) was it usual not to have that equipment in the unit or was it always available ?
If it’s usual had someone (she) moved it out ?

I would say it's extremely unlikely this equipment would be stored on the unit.

 

[Dotta]

I’m sure the jury all had their own scarves on too. The UK is having a collective breakdown at the moment because snow has appeared in March. We’ll be talking about this for the next 10 years at least.

Doesn't "March come in like a roaring lion..."?

 

[Tortoise]

Lecturing student nurses?
She didn't seem too happy about a student nurse "glued to" her.

JMO

It seems to me that she came back from lunch before the student.

Also that she turned down the doc's offer of lunch.

JMO

 

[Dotta]

I feel like I'm living in Narnia. What happened to spring!!!

Care to visit Siberia?
No??

 

[Legal]

Care to visit Siberia?
No??

Definitely not!!!!!

 

[Parker Knoll]

From recollection they are not due to sit on Monday or Friday of next week.
It’s listed for tomorrow as usual but depending on where the jurors are coming from there may be issues. Some parts are untouched by snow and in some it’s pretty bad.
I can’t see this going ahead until Tuesday now for a short 3 day week.

 

[Parker Knoll]

Fair enough …. That’s just where my mind goes immediately with letby Mary !

 

[Legal]

From recollection they are not due to sit on Monday or Friday of next week.
It’s listed for tomorrow as usual but depending on where the jurors are coming from there may be issues. Some parts are untouched by snow and in some it’s pretty bad.
I can’t see this going ahead until Tuesday now for a short 3 day week.

It is fairly bad weather where I am but the bigger problem is the infrastructure in this country is incapable of coping with any variations in temperature. My train was cancelled last summer because the weather was too hot (it was 15 degrees when I arrived at the station), then it's too cold, too wet, and the infamous leaves on the line.

 

[JosieJo]

On June 29, a Datix form is filed in which Child O 'suddenly and unexpectedly collapsed'.

Letby files a Datix form on June 30, in which it was recorded that equipment required for a procedure during resuscitation was not available on the unit

so "someone" submitted an incident report because the collapse was sudden and unexpected...then the following day LL (possibly on hearing an incident report had been submitted) ...decided to submit a report herself

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Wednesday, March 8

The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more, is…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

 

[LorriB]

On June 29, a Datix form is filed in which Child O 'suddenly and unexpectedly collapsed'.

Letby files a Datix form on June 30, in which it was recorded that equipment required for a procedure during resuscitation was not available on the unit

so "someone" submitted an incident report because the collapse was sudden and unexpected...then the following day LL (possibly on hearing an incident report had been submitted) ...decided to submit a report herself

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Wednesday, March 8

The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more, is…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

I wondered if it was Dr Choc and related to their conversation:


The doctor messages Letby on Monday, June 27 about the care for Child Q, and a Facebook conversation takes place.

A reference is made to clarify paperwork for a prescription for Child O during the resuscitation attempts.

 

[marynnu]

These are a few ramblings after a few glasses of wine, so apologies in advance if they make no sense! But I've just started watching the documentary on netflix about flight MH370's disappearance and at first the general consensus was mechanical failure or some kind of malfunction - the idea this was a deliberate act by the pilot did not surface till later on (to my understanding). So firstly a general point that people may be more inclined to attribute catastrophic events to accident rather than human design (which is far more frightening imo). However, this made me think of LL because I used to binge watch Air Crash Investigation (as well as Grey's Anatomy ) and one takeaway I had from that was the cause was nearly always due to a catalogue of errors - the Swiss cheese effect, they call it. It was never just one thing that went wrong, but a mechanic hadn't screwed something on properly, and the pilot hadn't checked and then the co-pilot pressed the wrong button etc etc. The point being, I was talking about this years ago with a doctor friend who said that it was exactly the same in healthcare. Things went wrong due to the Swiss cheese effect - a catalogue of errors. So it's possible that if LL is guilty, the substandard (if it was) care in CoC is not an alternative explanation but actually a contributory factor - part of the swiss cheese so to speak. Had there been more staff, better organisation etc, within the hospital, then if LL is guilty, she may not have been able to commit these acts. JMO

I don't see any connection between so-called problems in the hospital and these events.

 

[ColourPurple]

These are a few ramblings after a few glasses of wine, so apologies in advance if they make no sense! But I've just started watching the documentary on netflix about flight MH370's disappearance and at first the general consensus was mechanical failure or some kind of malfunction - the idea this was a deliberate act by the pilot did not surface till later on (to my understanding). So firstly a general point that people may be more inclined to attribute catastrophic events to accident rather than human design (which is far more frightening imo). However, this made me think of LL because I used to binge watch Air Crash Investigation (as well as Grey's Anatomy ) and one takeaway I had from that was the cause was nearly always due to a catalogue of errors - the Swiss cheese effect, they call it. It was never just one thing that went wrong, but a mechanic hadn't screwed something on properly, and the pilot hadn't checked and then the co-pilot pressed the wrong button etc etc. The point being, I was talking about this years ago with a doctor friend who said that it was exactly the same in healthcare. Things went wrong due to the Swiss cheese effect - a catalogue of errors. So it's possible that if LL is guilty, the substandard (if it was) care in CoC is not an alternative explanation but actually a contributory factor - part of the swiss cheese so to speak. Had there been more staff, better organisation etc, within the hospital, then if LL is guilty, she may not have been able to commit these acts. JMO

There have certainly been occasions, where, LL and her colleagues have discussed via text that the ward was exceptionally busy, and LL then allegedly attacked a baby . So,if guilty, it appears that she may have taken advantage of those really busy times.

IMO

 

[GoodDayToYouSir]

I’m sure the jury all had their own scarves on too. The UK is having a collective breakdown at the moment because snow has appeared in March. We’ll be talking about this for the next 10 years at least.

There will be a 2 hour documentary on channel 5 about it in 2 years time…

 

[GoodDayToYouSir]

It is fairly bad weather where I am but the bigger problem is the infrastructure in this country is incapable of coping with any variations in temperature. My train was cancelled last summer because the weather was too hot (it was 15 degrees when I arrived at the station), then it's too cold, too wet, and the infamous leaves on the line.

God bless those leaves on the line …

And let us not forget the “wrong type of snow” and “slippery rain”.

 

[GoodDayToYouSir]

One thing that is puzzling me about this case is the liver injury. From the post mortem, it looks like quite serious one (tears in several places are mentioned).

However it was caused, it instinctively feels to me like it would have needed to be a big impact on the baby, perhaps repeated impacts, to cause that damage . And if it wasn’t caused during resus efforts, why didn’t the baby scream? We’ve heard evidence for a couple other babies where they were described as screaming in what sounded like pain (for allegedly different reasons to liver trauma). Surely an injury of such magnitude as in baby O would cause a baby to scream?

 

[marynnu]

One thing that is puzzling me about this case is the liver injury. From the post mortem, it looks like quite serious one (tears in several places are mentioned).

However it was caused, it instinctively feels to me like it would have needed to be a big impact on the baby, perhaps repeated impacts, to cause that damage . And if it wasn’t caused during resus efforts, why didn’t the baby scream? We’ve heard evidence for a couple other babies where they were described as screaming in what sounded like pain (for allegedly different reasons to liver trauma). Surely an injury of such magnitude as in baby O would cause a baby to scream?

I wonder i f it could have been caused by something like repeated pressure? The PM suggested vigorous CPR, so presumably that would be a possibility.

 

[GoodDayToYouSir]

I wonder i f it could have been caused by something like repated pressure? The PM suggested vigorous CPR, so presumably that would be a possibility.

And presumably, a liver injury which causes bleeding is a painful thing? Even if the original impacts causing the damage aren’t themselves very painful (which feels unlikely), presumably once it starts bleeding that much, that causes considerable pain ?

 

[marynnu]

Fair enough …. That’s just where my mind goes immediately with letby Mary !

Where's your mind gone? You don't want it to go where mine is, trust me. And please don't call me Letby Mary. Heh heh.

 

[esther43]

One more thing.

The original murder charge for baby C was that LL murdered him between 12 and 15 June 2015

It didn't sound like there was any cause for concern. The baby had a full tummy. No other symptoms to indicate a traumatic liver injury or imminent collapse.

I'd like to know how long she was away on her vacay and how many sudden collapses there were that required crash carts and dozens of adrenaline shots and intubations during her time away.

Because the first day back, baby O had one, and died. ..and the next night his brother P also died. Both were her designated babies.

And the night after that baby Q inexplicably collapsed. Why would all of this happen right when she came back on the unit?

Yeah I can see that, especially if people are messaging her before her shifts 'oh we've got a baby with so and so in today' she already is aware of them before her shifts at times.

She may be a lot of things but I don't think she's stupid, if she's guilty she's certainly been 'clever' in how she's gone about things for a while

I don't see any connection between so-called problems in the hospital and these events.

And presumably, a liver injury which causes bleeding is a painful thing? Even if the original impacts causing the damage aren’t themselves very painful (which feels unlikely), presumably once it starts bleeding that much, that causes considerable pain ?

Of course, trauma to the liver is going to be extremely painful. But the fact that screaming wasn't heard is not that bizarre.
For a baby in an incubator to be heard screaming you'd have to be in very close proximity. These are 33 weekers and there is big difference between the level of noise they are capable of making compared to a term infant. The strongest evidence for liver trauma is the post mortem.