UK - Nurse Lucy Letby Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #14

[Dcflag]

I agree they’d have to tell her ‘something’. My point was I don’t believe that anybody told her she was being investigated for deliberately harming the babies. They did not have to disclose that. As per the policy, they were within their rights to withhold information if required. Besides, once passed to police, not even the hospital knew for sure it would turn into a murder investigation.

This is something I’d love to know and see if it’s being properly addressed in court. Did they just tell her there were concerns regarding quality of her care? Was she aware it was due to the unexpected deaths which surely were no secret among staff at this point?


I’d also really love much more of an insight into the ward as a whole in this time period. Because the unexpected deaths on the whole is something staff are surely going to be discussing whether in meetings. Or outside of work, in their friendship work circles etc. at what point did her colleagues stop discussing it with her? At what point did she go from one of the group to the outcast? Surely she wasn’t as naive to the situation as she appears based on the texts? It can’t have been a well kept secret in a workplace imo.

 

[LorriB]

But it's prefaced with “Why/how has this happened – what process has led to this current situation."

Unless we're to conclude that (a guilty) LL is so callously calculating that the notes she left 'lying around' were written with the sole intention of cynically padding out her claims of innocence, the above is the significant and meaningful bit imo, not the "they have no evidence" bit.

The ^ above surely can only have been written from the perspective of someone who has no idea why she's been removed from her job and/or become the primary suspect in a multiple murder investigation?

I agree completely. It just doesn't make sense to me.

I'd totally write 'they have no evidence' if I had a hunch my work was being investigated by the police. They couldn't have any evidence because I know I did nothing wrong, so how could there be any evidence? JMO

 

[msmarple99]

Do we know why it was so slow to come to trial? 2 years

 

[DianaWW]

We so need to hear what reason they gave her, for her move to clerical duties!

Agreed!

 

[Dotta]

We so need to hear what reason they gave her, for her move to clerical duties!

Maybe b/c the unit was downgraded, she was told there was staff reduction?

But then, who would get rid of Band 6 nurse?

JMO

 

[ColourPurple]

This is something I’d love to know and see if it’s being properly addressed in court. Did they just tell her there were concerns regarding quality of her care? Was she aware it was due to the unexpected deaths which surely were no secret among staff at this point?


I’d also really love much more of an insight into the ward as a whole in this time period. Because the unexpected deaths on the whole is something staff are surely going to be discussing whether in meetings. Or outside of work, in their friendship work circles etc. at what point did her colleagues stop discussing it with her? At what point did she go from one of the group to the outcast? Surely she wasn’t as naive to the situation as she appears based on the texts? It can’t have been a well kept secret in a workplace imo.

Hopefully we'll hear a few texts, at the very least between LL and Dr NiceGuy, but I'd assume her colleagues would text her about her being moved too.

Although the alleged attacks were all in the space of a year, they seemed to be in clusters with long gaps in between. Therefore, her colleagues may just have asumed her move was only related to the most recent cluster of alleged attacks in June 2016.

 

[ColourPurple]

Maybe b/c the unit was downgraded, she was told there was staff reduction?

But then, who would get rid of Band 6 nurse?

JMO

Yeah the staff reduction excuse wouldn't work . I reckon they'll have used something that happened her during care for Baby Q or the triplets, as a reason to get her off the ward initially.

 

[Tortoise]

But it's prefaced with “Why/how has this happened – what process has led to this current situation."

Unless we're to conclude that (a guilty) LL is so callously calculating that the notes she left 'lying around' were written with the sole intention of cynically padding out her claims of innocence, the above is the significant and meaningful bit imo, not the "they have no evidence" bit.

The ^ above surely can only have been written from the perspective of someone who has no idea why she's been removed from her job and/or become the primary suspect in a multiple murder investigation?

There was more than one note.

The phrase I was commenting on wasn't prefaced with that.

 

[msmarple99]

It’s also true that generally speaking the prosecution have not offered much in the way of evidence to say she actually did do anything same as the internal investigation. They still have no evidence really that she did so that hasn’t changed but the diagnosis has. All circumstantial.

What diagnosis plz?

 

[Sweeper2000]

I agree they’d have to tell her ‘something’. My point was I don’t believe that anybody told her she was being investigated for deliberately harming the babies. They did not have to disclose that. As per the policy, they were within their rights to withhold information if required. Besides, once passed to police, not even the hospital knew for sure it would turn into a murder investigation.

My point is exactly what could they tell her ? It took years for the police to build a case so absolutely nothing was clear and the hospital couldn’t find anything for a year either whilst she was on clerical. a year is a long time to be under investigation and in loo of any evidence all you could say is the truth. “We have a higher than average level of deaths and collapses on the unit, we don’t know why but need to find out what exactly is going on“. I don’t think you could put it any other way. What makes you think they wouldn’t tell her? She never said anything about a murder investigation. Not in the notes.

all imo

 

[Sweeper2000]

What diagnosis plz?

the diagnosis of the causes of death at time of death and by the coroner were changed after review by dr evans.

 

[esther43]

This is something I’d love to know and see if it’s being properly addressed in court. Did they just tell her there were concerns regarding quality of her care? Was she aware it was due to the unexpected deaths which surely were no secret among staff at this point?


I’d also really love much more of an insight into the ward as a whole in this time period. Because the unexpected deaths on the whole is something staff are surely going to be discussing whether in meetings. Or outside of work, in their friendship work circles etc. at what point did her colleagues stop discussing it with her? At what point did she go from one of the group to the outcast? Surely she wasn’t as naive to the situation as she appears based on the texts? It can’t have been a well kept secret in a workplace imo.

From what we have heard so far, I would say LL has three friends in this. Her mentor, JJK and CB.
Everyone else seems to have gone completely the other way IMO

 

[DianaWW]

My point is exactly what could they tell her ? It took years for the police to build a case so absolutely nothing was clear and the hospital couldn’t find anything for a year either whilst she was on clerical. a year is a long time to be under investigation and in loo of any evidence all you could say is the truth. “We have a higher than average level of deaths and collapses on the unit, we don’t know why but need to find out what exactly is going on“. I don’t think you could put it any other way. What makes you think they wouldn’t tell her? She never said anything about a murder investigation. Not in the notes.

all imo

I don’t know what she was told. I’m waiting to find out.

I was responding to the idea that she ‘must have been told they had no evidence’….I disagree. I doubt that she was told that. But that’s JMO.

 

[Tortoise]

My point is exactly what could they tell her ? It took years for the police to build a case so absolutely nothing was clear and the hospital couldn’t find anything for a year either whilst she was on clerical. a year is a long time to be under investigation and in loo of any evidence all you could say is the truth. “We have a higher than average level of deaths and collapses on the unit, we don’t know why but need to find out what exactly is going on“. I don’t think you could put it any other way. What makes you think they wouldn’t tell her? She never said anything about a murder investigation. Not in the notes.

all imo

I think the difference is that she wasn't under investigation. The babies deaths were. It's not the same as say a patient coming forward and saying that nurse attacked me, or attacked my child or elderly mother. These were deaths which might or might not have been murder.

There is no way (IMO) anyone would say anything to her about the non-existence of evidence of her harming babies before the police even knew if a crime had been committed.

IMO

 

[Tortoise]

the diagnosis of the causes of death at time of death and by the coroner were changed after review by dr evans.

This isn't correct. I think you're referring to what would be manner of death, natural or unnatural, which would not be changed before conclusion of trial.

 

[Tortoise]

Do we know why it was so slow to come to trial? 2 years

Probably the sheer volume of medical records that had to be combed through in detail, the many experts of various disciplines who had to be consulted, expert peer reviews again going through everything, the many interviews of all involved, staff and parents, and then the interviews with the accused and submitting the results of the police work again to the experts for further review and reports to be written. It wasn't a small investigation.

IMO

 

[Ruby12345]

From what we have heard so far, I would say LL has three friends in this. Her mentor, JJK and CB.
Everyone else seems to have gone completely the other way IMO

Do we know about Dr niceguy though? Does he believe she's innocent? Maybe he's waiting for her.

 

[esther43]

Do we know about Dr niceguy though? Does he believe she's innocent? Maybe he's waiting for her.

Definitely couldn't rule it out until the defence is heard. However, if LL thought this to be the case, the dramatic 'time out' episode in court would have been less likely IMO.
I believe that if he were saying something favourable and LL knew this to be the case, she would have been more composed..?

 

[esther43]

But it's prefaced with “Why/how has this happened – what process has led to this current situation."

Unless we're to conclude that (a guilty) LL is so callously calculating that the notes she left 'lying around' were written with the sole intention of cynically padding out her claims of innocence, the above is the significant and meaningful bit imo, not the "they have no evidence" bit.

The ^ above surely can only have been written from the perspective of someone who has no idea why she's been removed from her job and/or become the primary suspect in a multiple murder investigation?

Not sure. The sentence that most points to innocence Is ' I haven't done anything wrong'

I don't necessarily associate 'why/ how has this happened / what process has led to this current situation' with innocence.

'I haven't done anything wrong' could also be associated with 'false memories', if LL lives in a world of denial, those words could just be her being childish, finding safety in the concept of denial. Who knows! All jmo

 

[ColourPurple]

Not sure. The sentence that most points to innocence Is ' I haven't done anything wrong'

I don't necessarily associate 'why/ how has this happened / what process has led to this current situation' with innocence.

'I haven't done anything wrong' could also be associated with 'false memories', if LL lives in a world of denial, those words could just be her being childish, finding safety in the concept of denial. Who knows! All jmo

And could be based on a belief that whatever she did allegedly do, wasn't wrong in her eyes.