UK - Nurse Lucy Letby Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #16

[Sweeper2000]

I’m thinking it’s the doctor worrying about her cpr. I doubt ll would think that cpr can cause an injury like that whereas a doctor might sus it out. That’s where that convo started maybe.

It looks correct. We weren't taught about the intercostal space, just to aim for 1 finger width from the nipples, or 2 for higger babies, which as you can see is about right.
I can see how the ribs might press on the top of the liver, but not how catastrophic injury would occur. Although CPR isn't very common on NNUs, I probably did compressions about 15-20 times in all as I had quite a long career. As I've said before, the risk of injuring the liver (or anything else) just wasn't on anyone's radar. You'd have to be doing sonething quite extreme, IMO.

that puts an interesting angle on things. This unit had a “long careers” worth of resus in a year.

 

[Dotta]

Update

Lucy Letby trial: Fluid and air forced into baby's stomach, jury told

A medical expert agrees with prosecutors who allege liquid was "forced" down a baby's nasogastric tube.

www.bbc.com

 

[Anxala]

Just chipping in;
The female doctor who said she was worried she may have caused damage during CPR, i wonder if this the same (female) doctor that dr choc went off to the staff room with; Dr Tea (before the kettle had even had chance to boil), Dr choc was then called back to the unit. Could this be the same doctor he was with?

Interestingly I think back to the conversations he was having with LL around this time via message where he’d said something to her (I can’t recall quite the exact words); no-one is saying xyz (about her being neglectful or causing harm?)…

Dr choc is then having a conversation in cubicle with female Dr tea where she has said she (herself) was worried she may have injured the baby during CPR. Dr choc is then relaying this back to LL and then we have dr gibbs asking who had been with the baby at the time.

All JMO just trying to make sense of evidence we’ve had previously and where it fits in the timeline.

Slightly O/T but I'm so glad Dr Choc (and Dr Tea) choose anonymity. I can't (and don't want to) even begin to imagine how torn to shreds both would now be were their names in the public domain.

 

[Dotta]

IMO the female doctor behaved flawlessly.
She did what she could during resus.

As an expert said, the liver injury could not happen during resus.

She can hold her head high.
She behaved like a true professional.

JMO

 

[marynnu]

I’m thinking it’s the doctor worrying about her cpr. I doubt ll would think that cpr can cause an injury like that whereas a doctor might sus it out. That’s where that convo started maybe.


that puts an interesting angle on things. This unit had a “long careers” worth of resus in a year.

Obviously those are just the ones I was there for, but you're right, it doesn't happen often. Nor do deaths for that matter. We used to say that the thing that helped the staff cope with losing babies was not having to deal with it very often.

 

[Sundial]

Update

Lucy Letby trial: Fluid and air forced into baby's stomach, jury told

A medical expert agrees with prosecutors who allege liquid was "forced" down a baby's nasogastric tube.

www.bbc.com

Reading the part about the baby vomiting here, sounds familiar to the baby where LL was stood in the doorway (without lighting, baby K I think?) and the baby projectile vomited over the canopy, floor and chair next to the cot (or something simialr)

JMO

 

[Sundial]

IMO the female doctor behaved flawlessly.
She did what she could during resus.

As an expert said, the liver injury could not happen during resus.

She can hold her head high.
She behaved like a true professional.

JMO

The thing I found interesting with this; are the conversations ll was having with dr choc where he seems to try to reassure her about “what dr gibbs was asking”. (This I presume is after he has been in cubicle talking to dr tea about the cpr).

These conversations are intriguing because dr choc goes into quite a bit of detail about “no-one is saying she has done xyz”. I found the conversations around this, also with dr tea and dr gibbs, somewhat surprising.

Dr tea was upset about her method of cpr, but when discussions are then had with ll, I find them really really odd.

JMO

 

[Becci]

Reading the part about the baby vomiting here, sounds familiar to the baby where LL was stood in the doorway (without lighting, baby K I think?) and the baby projectile vomited over the canopy, floor and chair next to the cot (or something simialr)

JMO

Child G

 

[FoxyLoxy1]

This is most likely completely wrong but Grey's Anatomy has been mentioned a few times on here and also in texts by LL
There was an episode on Greys with a very young couple who had twins.
I wonder if any other episodes had characters similar to other alleged victims.

 

[JosieJo]

Mr Myers said: 'I am going to suggest that fluid is something you have added at a late stage.'

Dr Evans replied: 'I think in all these cases I have said in evidence, on a number of occasions, that I had to rely on notes that I have been presented with and the more accurate the information we get the more accurate the opinion is.'

Mr Myers said: 'What you are focusing on at that point exclusively is air.

Now you have reached this point where you have added fluid now to keep the mechanism going, keep the allegation going, rather than reflect the facts?' Dr Evans said: 'No, no, no. You have got it wrong again.

'We are here now and we have heard the evidence from the people who were looking after him.

'So going on about what I wrote in 2017 and 2018 is rather missing the point.' Letby, originally from Hereford, denies the murders of seven babies and the attempted murders of 10 others between June 2015 and June 2016.

Lucy Letby harmed baby by 'pouring clear liquid down his throat'

Letby, 33, originally from Hereford, is on trial at Manchester Crown Court accused of murdering seven babies and attempting to murder a further 10 between June 2015 and June 2016.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Sundial]

This is most likely completely wrong but Grey's Anatomy has been mentioned a few times on here and also in texts by LL
There was an episode on Greys with a very young couple who had twins.
I wonder if any other episodes had characters similar to other alleged victims.

I’ve never seen greys anatomy before tbh and I’ve just been doing a bit of a Google search on the 2015-16 period of the series. Just basic stuff with twins etc, trying to get a better ideas of the stories.

In one dated 9th October 2015 there is a set of twins mentioned on the programme (it’s a recap called “I choose you?). The twins in this recap both have tumours on their livers and 2 livers are needed to save the babies- where only dad is a match.

In another episode there is also a cast member who portrays the character who has hand tremors.

Could be purely coincidental given what the show is about, but I found some of these stories quite an interesting read given what we’ve had so far in evidence.
JMO

 

[Legal]

I was a massive grey's anatomy fan, which I've mentioned before and like other dramas a lot is about the main characters. The main character, Meredith Gray, is an only child (at the outset anyway) and she has an on/off relationship with one of the doctors. She also has friends who are colleagues and they go to her house and drink tequila and party, and slag off the other doctors not in their group. I did wonder if LL wanted to make her life more exciting and dramatic like on that TV show, and she does seem to have her group of friends, and doctor choc to add a bit of flirtatious gossip, but killing babies, if guilty, does seem to be taking that to a whole other level.

 

[Legal]

This is probably a massive reach but did a quick google and there was an Angel of Death in ER! Season 8 episode 7. And the doctor involved is British. LL is probably too young for the show, and like I said, I'm really reaching here, but thought I would share.

A brittle Dr. Corday (Alex Kingston) desperately searches for a possible "Angel of Death" who's been secretly murdering her elderly patients, leaving her to shoulder any possible blame

 

[ColourPurple]

This is probably a massive reach but did a quick google and there was an Angel of Death in ER! Season 8 episode 7. And the doctor involved is British. LL is probably too young for the show, and like I said, I'm really reaching here, but thought I would share.

A brittle Dr. Corday (Alex Kingston) desperately searches for a possible "Angel of Death" who's been secretly murdering her elderly patients, leaving her to shoulder any possible blame

It was October 2015 when LL made the comment "I think I need to see greys anatomy !!!" which implied she hadn't seen it at that point, but maybe she did watch it after that?

Letby messages a colleague to say that night had 'only 8 babies' in the unit, and there is a discussion over transporting a baby to Stoke.

She adds: "I think I need to see greys anatomy !!!"

Later in the conversation, Letby messages to say Child I "had abdo scan that was fine".

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Thursday, February 2

The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more, is…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

 

[esther43]

IMO the female doctor behaved flawlessly.
She did what she could during resus.

As an expert said, the liver injury could not happen during resus.

She can hold her head high.
She behaved like a true professional.

JMO

Who is 'she'? LL? Doctor tea? X

 

[Sundial]

I was a massive grey's anatomy fan, which I've mentioned before and like other dramas a lot is about the main characters. The main character, Meredith Gray, is an only child (at the outset anyway) and she has an on/off relationship with one of the doctors. She also has friends who are colleagues and they go to her house and drink tequila and party, and slag off the other doctors not in their group. I did wonder if LL wanted to make her life more exciting and dramatic like on that TV show, and she does seem to have her group of friends, and doctor choc to add a bit of flirtatious gossip, but killing babies, if guilty, does seem to be taking that to a whole other level.

A bit of a resemblance here in a way then. Thank you for sharing, I’ve never seen it.
I’m sure I recall seeing the “tequila” being mentioned in her message exchange somewhere too. Interesting.
JMO

 

[Dotta]

Who is 'she'? LL? Doctor tea? X

My post was about Female Doctor.

 

[esther43]

The thing I found interesting with this; are the conversations ll was having with dr choc where he seems to try to reassure her about “what dr gibbs was asking”. (This I presume is after he has been in cubicle talking to dr tea about the cpr).

These conversations are intriguing because dr choc goes into quite a bit of detail about “no-one is saying she has done xyz”. I found the conversations around this, also with dr tea and dr gibbs, somewhat surprising.

Dr tea was upset about her method of cpr, but when discussions are then had with ll, I find them really really odd.

JMO

I found the conversation between LL and Dr choc interesting.
Dr. Choc to LL :' oh, I just went right into the cubicle and told her outright, your resus technique was awesome, right in the fifth cortisole'
Then later
'oh.... That? I didn't see a thing, I was focusing on the airway'

Well which was it Dr choc?

 

[Dotta]

A bit of a resemblance here in a way then. Thank you for sharing, I’ve never seen it.
I’m sure I recall seeing the “tequila” being mentioned in her message exchange somewhere too. Interesting.
JMO

Can this case get even MORE bizarre?

 

[Sweeper2000]

I found the conversation between LL and Dr choc interesting.
Dr. Choc to LL :' oh, I just went right into the cubicle and told her outright, your resus technique was awesome, right in the fifth cortisole'
Then later
'oh.... That? I didn't see a thing, I was focusing on the airway'

Well which was it Dr choc?

So it was ll doing the resus then?

nope sorry.

He told Ms Letby he spent 20 minutes "in a cubicle going over everything" with the doctor.
The doctor told Mr Myers it was a "busy time on unit" and "a lot of introspection" was occurring.
He said he wanted to "reassure" the doctor the correct CPR procedure had been followed, but when pressed by Mr Myers as to whether he could remember the CPR he said "I don't".
"I think I was managing the airway and at some point changed positions, I don't recall who was doing what. I was focusing on the task in hand," he said.

Lucy Letby trial: Fluid and air forced into baby's stomach, jury told

A medical expert agrees with prosecutors who allege liquid was "forced" down a baby's nasogastric tube.

www.bbc.co.uk