UK - Nurse Lucy Letby Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #16

[Sweeper2000]

Do we know if he still works there? It must be very awkward/embarrassing having these messages read out if he does! JMO

Works in the area but not I believe at coch. I bet he jumped ship as soon as she was put on clerical or ASAp. Don’t think anyone would want to be in his position whilst being there.

 

[marynnu]

JMO but think Myers is "peeing" against the wind trying to say such severe liver injuries occured by CPR in a hospital neonatal unit.
Everyone would be used to CPR plus normally if someone is doing it too hard or wrong place etc another colleague would jump in

I think ..and JMO it seems that Dr Choc and the other female Dr talked thing through trying to understand the liver injury that had probably come back on post mortem

What is I interesting is that Dr Choc was still feeding information by text to LL in early July ..albeit likely he had no idea of the potential consequences

I totally agree. IMO this injury is unlikely to have occurred during CPR, regardless of who performed it. I have always thought that, for the reasons you state. And let's not forget they were well practised, having performed far more than their fair share over the previous 18 months.

 

[marynnu]

I really doubt he understood the potential consequences..at the time he may have just been letting a colleague know about the post mortem results which wouldn't be uncommon if that colleague had been looking after the baby

agree

I totally agree about the PM, not so much about relaying his conversation with the doctor, especially if it was she who performed the compressions and was worried about it. I'd be very upset to think that was being shared, if it were me.

 

[ColourPurple]

Dan O'Donoghue
https://twitter.com/MrDanDonoghue

Dr Evans has said that he believes Child Q's collapse on the morning of 25 June was a result of air and liquid - possibly saline or water - being injected via the NG tube into his stomach. This he says caused Child Q's breathing problems, as it splinted diaphragm

 

[LadyEdgeworth]

agree

I totally agree about the PM, not so much about relaying his conversation with the doctor, especially if it was she who performed the compressions and was worried about it. I'd be very upset to think that was being shared, if it were me.

Dr Choc and LL are a good match for each other, both love telling tales about their colleagues!
I feel bad for the other Dr too, she's worried that she may have accidentally done this to a baby she was trying to save and he just turns around and tells LL the whole tale.

 

[marynnu]

Works in the area but not I believe at coch. I bet he jumped ship as soon as she was put on clerical or ASAp. Don’t think anyone would want to be in his position whilst being there.

I read this as him going to work at Asda. Think I need a rest.

 

[Dotta]

I read this as him going to work at Asda. Think I need a rest.

Selling chocolates?

 

[LadyEdgeworth]

I read this as him going to work at Asda. Think I need a rest.

Confectionary aisle lol

 

[Sweeper2000]

Hmmmmm might be an attempt by doc choc to reassure ll about her performance worries. Fitting imo. You know “even doctors worry, so don’t worry“ kind of thing. It would be blatantly out if she had nothing to do with baby q. Not sure if he’s done that before and not sure about the “consequences“ of him divulging Info.

 

[marynnu]

Dr Choc and LL are a good match for each other, both love telling tales about their colleagues!
I feel bad for the other Dr too, she's worried that she may have accidentally done this to a baby she was trying to save and he just turns around and tells LL the whole tale.

She wouldn't be the only one. I remember a nurse questioning herself too, not sure which baby, and then there was the poor nurse who LL texted with low blood sugar result as she was about to go to bed after a difficult night. You can only imagine how desperately worried everyone was.

 

[Sweeper2000]

Confectionary aisle lol

Nahhhh I see him more on the “home leisure section“.

I wonder if he became a massive fan of “greys anatomy“ when involved with LL, taking a leaf out of that book.

 

[Sundial]

Just chipping in;
The female doctor who said she was worried she may have caused damage during CPR, i wonder if this the same (female) doctor that dr choc went off to the staff room with; Dr Tea (before the kettle had even had chance to boil), Dr choc was then called back to the unit. Could this be the same doctor he was with?

Interestingly I think back to the conversations he was having with LL around this time via message where he’d said something to her (I can’t recall quite the exact words); no-one is saying xyz (about her being neglectful or causing harm?)…

Dr choc is then having a conversation in cubicle with female Dr tea where she has said she (herself) was worried she may have injured the baby during CPR. Dr choc is then relaying this back to LL and then we have dr gibbs asking who had been with the baby at the time.

All JMO just trying to make sense of evidence we’ve had previously and where it fits in the timeline.

 

[Sweeper2000]

These recent goings on are interesting. I think it’s the first time there has actually been something happening in real time as a part of the background worries on the unit. I know the talks with management have happened but dr Gibbs actually expressing openly concern about the units high incident rate is very different from what’s happened before.

 

[mummyshark]

Hi there, nice to meet you. It's good to have input from a mom with NNU experience. What you say is spot on, needless to say! I trust you & your daughter are doing well. x

Thank you. Yes, my daughter is now a healthy and energetic 9 (going on 19) year old.

One thing that I don't think people are aware of with this case is that being in NNU is an incredibly traumatic experience in itself. You go completely in to survival mode. 9 years on and I still have flashbacks, and I left the hospital with a healthy baby. Of course, not everyone experiences this, but I keep thinking about those poor parents who are having to relive it all and considering the fact that someone added to their trauma in what was probably one of the most difficult times of their lives. There aren't the words to express how awful it must be for them.

 

[Supernovae]

By LL's chest comperessions or a lady doctor's chest compressions? Sounds like the latter.

Anyone know if 'CPR was all at fifth rib space between the nipples' is the correct way to do it?

The image below shows the 5th intercostal space. I'm guessing "between the nipples" would be the bit at the top where it curves upwards. To me it looks near the heart and not especially near the liver.

 

[ColourPurple]

Dan's write up doesn't clarify who the "her" in "her chest compressions" was either but does seem to confirm that the other doctor was female, so still could be LL or the female doctor. I think it's the latter IMO

In Facebook messages to the nurse, originally of Hereford, he said that another doctor on the unit had told him she was "upset" and concerned that Child O's liver injury "may have been caused by her chest compressions".

He told Ms Letby he spent 20 minutes "in a cubicle going over everything" with the doctor.

The doctor told Mr Myers it was a "busy time on unit" and "a lot of introspection" was occurring.

He said he wanted to "reassure" the doctor the correct CPR procedure had been followed, but when pressed by Mr Myers as to whether he could remember the CPR he said "I don't".

"I think I was managing the airway and at some point changed positions, I don't recall who was doing what. I was focusing on the task in hand," he said.

Fluid and air forced into baby's stomach, jury told - BBC News

A medical expert agrees with prosecutors who allege liquid was "forced" down a baby's nasogastric tube.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Dotta]

Dan's write up doesn't clarify who the "her" in "her chest compressions" was either but does clarify that the other doctor was female, so still could be LL or the female doctor. I think it's the latter IMO

In Facebook messages to the nurse, originally of Hereford, he said that another doctor on the unit had told him she was "upset" and concerned that Child O's liver injury "may have been caused by her chest compressions".

He told Ms Letby he spent 20 minutes "in a cubicle going over everything" with the doctor.

The doctor told Mr Myers it was a "busy time on unit" and "a lot of introspection" was occurring.

He said he wanted to "reassure" the doctor the correct CPR procedure had been followed, but when pressed by Mr Myers as to whether he could remember the CPR he said "I don't".

"I think I was managing the airway and at some point changed positions, I don't recall who was doing what. I was focusing on the task in hand," he said.

Fluid and air forced into baby's stomach, jury told - BBC News

A medical expert agrees with prosecutors who allege liquid was "forced" down a baby's nasogastric tube.

www.bbc.co.uk

When exactly did this "20 minutes in cubicle" happen?

The liver damage was discovered during post mortem.
So PM must have happened immediately after the death, no?

Besides, the expert said that injury couldn't happen during resus.

JMO

 

[JosieJo]

Dan's write up doesn't clarify who the "her" in "her chest compressions" was either but does seem to confirm that the other doctor was female, so still could be LL or the female doctor. I think it's the latter IMO

In Facebook messages to the nurse, originally of Hereford, he said that another doctor on the unit had told him she was "upset" and concerned that Child O's liver injury "may have been caused by her chest compressions".

He told Ms Letby he spent 20 minutes "in a cubicle going over everything" with the doctor.

The doctor told Mr Myers it was a "busy time on unit" and "a lot of introspection" was occurring.

He said he wanted to "reassure" the doctor the correct CPR procedure had been followed, but when pressed by Mr Myers as to whether he could remember the CPR he said "I don't".

"I think I was managing the airway and at some point changed positions, I don't recall who was doing what. I was focusing on the task in hand," he said.

Fluid and air forced into baby's stomach, jury told - BBC News

A medical expert agrees with prosecutors who allege liquid was "forced" down a baby's nasogastric tube.

www.bbc.co.uk

I agree...if the Dr was upset and he needed to reassure her ..I'd say it follows it was the Dr's CPR

 

[ColourPurple]

When exactly did this "20 minutes in cubicle" happen?

The liver damage was discovered during post mortem.
So PM must have happened immediately after the death, no?

Besides, the expert said that injury couldn't happen during resus.

JMO

I know. We're lacking so much information. Would help to know when the PM was carried out, when the chat in the cubicle took place and when Dr A messaged LL about it.

 

[marynnu]

The image below shows the 5th intercostal space. I'm guessing "between the nipples" would be the bit at the top where it curves upwards. To me it looks near the heart and not especially near the liver.

It looks correct. We weren't taught about the intercostal space, just to aim for 1 finger width from the nipples, or 2 for higger babies, which as you can see is about right.
I can see how the ribs might press on the top of the liver, but not how catastrophic injury would occur. Although CPR isn't very common on NNUs, I probably did compressions about 15-20 times in all as I had quite a long career. As I've said before, the risk of injuring the liver (or anything else) just wasn't on anyone's radar. You'd have to be doing sonething quite extreme, IMO.