UK - Nurse Lucy Letby Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #17

[Sundial]

To me it seems much more likely she accessed all these documents when she undertook her own investigation in a bid to get her job back. These hospital documents were probably accessed in bulk through her move to office area or hospital or via staff at hospital (either through official means or otherwise).

I think the notes in the diary were retroactively entered when she was trying to piece everything together for her own purposes.

How does that explain the documents already in her parents house prior to any investigation though?
Moo

 

[Sweeper2000]

We don't know why that made her cry, to be fair.

A house, home, love, relationships, career and life in ruins summed up in a few pictures. I’d cry if I lost that.

 

[WaxLyrical]

260 handover notes in the space of one year sound like she took home the handover notes from every shift? I’m surprised there are 4 babies whose handover notes aren’t there..

 

[Sweeper2000]

How does that explain the documents already in her parents house prior to any investigation though?
Moo

So it’s a years worth of handover notes. Does it then follow that she always takes it home. Always has done. Has presumably disposed of the others.

I won’t lie I can see someone taking home something like that as a personal albeit against the rules “record of works”. ano example is a ticket you get every time you ”clock in” on the machine at the start of your shift. i can see someone doing that same way people keep concert tickets.

 

[Sundial]

So it’s a years worth of handover notes. Does it then follow that she always takes it home. Always has done. Has presumably disposed of the others.

I won’t lie I can see someone taking home something like that as a personal albeit against the rules “record of works”. ano example is a ticket you get every time you ”clock in” on the machine at the start of your shift. i can see someone doing that same way people keep concert tickets.

And yet she would have known it was not right to do so.


She was an educated young women, even looking to apply to the neonatal advanced practitioner course (as she discussed with dr choc), she was capable of recording medical information in patients files, calling crash teams and reporting medical diagnosis with colleagues via text and discussing (at great length) with dr choc other patients when not on shift.

Reportedly praised for her work and well liked by colleagues. But despite all that, is still found to have had all this paperwork at her parents and in her own home and would have known that it breaches professional conduct. It doesn’t matter why or how, she should never have had all these patient’s confidential information in her possession like this.
Moo

 

[mummyshark]

So it’s a years worth of handover notes. Does it then follow that she always takes it home. Always has done. Has presumably disposed of the others.

Have we heard in evidence what her explanation was for why a handover sheet was found in her home? The one that was mentioned while going through the cases (Baby M?) Did we get to hear what her response was during police questioning?

 

[Sweeper2000]

Have we heard in evidence what her explanation was for why a handover sheet was found in her home? The one that was mentioned while going through the cases (Baby M?) Did we get to hear what her response was during police questioning?

Will be presented in the next week or so I think. I’ve seen allot from her police interview for baby A. So baby b next and so on.

she has a years worth of handover sheets, it seems she keeps all of them.

 

[GoodDayToYouSir]

There's a lot of theories. It could be that she has a form of OCD and keeps the notes as a reassurance/compulsion but then why not say that? Its a common condiiton.

It could be that she is a huge hoarder but as per the description of her home it seems quite orderly, not what you'd expect from a hoarder (which is why I believe prosecution made note of her interior design).

It could be that she keeps them as a reference to those patients she has been in contact with but again, why are these SO important to her?

All imo of course

It reminds me of Robin Williams character in the film One Hour Photo (where he works in a shop processing film rolls, and keeps a copy of every set of pictures of a particular family because they seem perfect and it makes him happy to see them living their happy lives). Although that ends badly (spoiler alert).

I think the paperwork is either evidence of someone living vicariously (whether that be reliving alleged crimes committed or reliving the family experience of the parents of newborn babies ); or else it’s papers she had gathered to help defend herself against allegations so she could be reinstated onto the ward (again, I could see either a guilty person or an innocent person doing this).

 

[Dotta]

I really wonder how many Babies left this hospital brain damaged.

Those Babies who are not in indictment, but whose handover sheets were found at this person's home.

JMO

 

[Observant-ADHD-ENFP-BSc]

There were 257 handover sheets found in total. Not a single one should have left the hospital, while you could understand a couple being accidental. 257 is complete madness and way beyond just taking random stuff home, they’ve been taken and kept purposely when they shouldn’t have been in her home atall. She shouldn’t have taken them out the hospital and if she did by mistake she should have returned them at the start of her next shift. But instead they were stashed in a bag for life and in a box labelled ‘keep’

This is a point that should be highlighted.
The amount of times my husband has accidentally come home with the work van keys, receipts and paperwork that is not supposed to come home and he has freaked out and taken it back the next day, if not turned around and took it back straight away (Van keys are needed for next shift). My teenage daughter has freaked out when she realized she came home with work paperwork and called her manager straight away the let her know she had it. It wasn't confident paperwork, which had confidential information regarding a patient, but they freaked out and returned it ASAP.
The fact that LL has done this over 250 times and not returned it or destroyed it but kept some in a box marked 'keep', is just way beyond accidental.
That is all I have to say for now

JMO

 

[katydid23]

We don't know why that made her cry, to be fair.

True. But there has been all kinds of very emotional testimony from grieving parents, and the deceased babies being bathed and dressed, and testimonies from crying colleagues, discussing the suffering these 17 babies went though, and all of the medical traumas, etc....and no mention of her crying.

Then a picture of her bedroom and she is noticeably moved to tears for only the 2nd time we know of. I have to think that looks bad.

 

[Observant-ADHD-ENFP-BSc]

I'd always assumed they get one each.

From what I remember, when my child was in NICU, the handover sheet was kept in a ring binder at the individual child incubator/cot. It was for the designated nurse, other nurses and doctors to write in and when the shift changed. The new nurse would go over the sheet, flip it over and start the next one.
Obviously, that is just one hospital and was quite a while ago now. I'm sure things are different in ever hospital.

 

[katydid23]

*In one section Ms Letby had written: "No-one will ever know what happened and why I am a failure", the court heard.*

Lucy Letby trial: Nurse's notes read 'I killed them', jury told

A note found at Lucy Letby's home stated "maybe this is all down to me", her murder trial is told.

www.bbc.com

It is so weird to say -----"No-one will ever know what happened and why I am a failure"

WHY will no one ever know? If she knows what happened and it was an innocent mistake, why not explain it?

 

[catgreen]

So it’s a years worth of handover notes. Does it then follow that she always takes it home. Always has done. Has presumably disposed of the others.

I won’t lie I can see someone taking home something like that as a personal albeit against the rules “record of works”. ano example is a ticket you get every time you ”clock in” on the machine at the start of your shift. i can see someone doing that same way people keep concert tickets.

no I dont think so, as a professional the safety of paperwork/confidentiality is drummed into you. If it was an odd sheet then she may have just forgotten to leave it at work, but this number is sinister to my mind

 

[DianaWW]

To me it seems much more likely she accessed all these documents when she undertook her own investigation in a bid to get her job back. These hospital documents were probably accessed in bulk through her move to office area of hospital or via staff at hospital (either through official means or otherwise).

I think the notes in the diary were retroactively entered when she was trying to piece everything together for her own purposes.

Apparently handover sheets are not kept on file, and destroyed at the end of a shift. So the only way for her to have taken them home, is at the end of each shift. They couldn’t have been stolen in bulk.

And if the diary was written retrospectively, how did she know the dates of the baby's alleged attacks, before her arrest? JMO.

 

[DianaWW]

260 handover notes in the space of one year sound like she took home the handover notes from every shift? I’m surprised there are 4 babies whose handover notes aren’t there..

No opportunity to take these particular handover sheets home perhaps? These weren’t all her designated babies so possible the designated nurse destroyed them before she had a chance to take them. JMO.

 

[JosieJo]

To me it seems much more likely she accessed all these documents when she undertook her own investigation in a bid to get her job back. These hospital documents were probably accessed in bulk through her move to office area of hospital or via staff at hospital (either through official means or otherwise).

I think the notes in the diary were retroactively entered when she was trying to piece everything together for her own purposes.

But
she had documents at her parents

Why initials in diary not full names?

If you were conducting your own collection of information for a grievance wouldn't you have s folder? Or at least the the most unorganised of people would have them in the same "carrier bag" not just spread around the house surely?

 

[marynnu]

But
she had documents at her parents

Why initials in diary not full names?

If you were conducting your own collection of information for a grievance wouldn't you have s folder? Or at least the the most unorganised of people would have them in the same "carrier bag" not just spread around the house surely?

I agree, and for me I'd have been collating any useful information from those documents which might help me. Just having all this stuff lying around wouldn't be helpful, IMO.

 

[notsure]

It is so weird to say -----"No-one will ever know what happened and why I am a failure"

WHY will no one ever know? If she knows what happened and it was an innocent mistake, why not explain it?

What makes it even more difficult to interpret is the fact that she doesn't use correct punctuation in her writing. Some of her sentences just run together with no full stops (periods). So she could actually have meant "No-one will ever know what happened and why. I am a failure." Subtle difference, but it does change the meaning somewhat.

 

[WaxLyrical]

I think we need more info on what the handover sheets contain. I remember reading during earlier discussions that there didn’t seem to be a consistent way each hospital does the handover sheets, and I recall someone mentioning that their handover sheets only contained the bed number rather than patient name, and it was for all the patients on the ward rather than individual sheets for each patient, so every nurse got a copy of the same thing (no chance of me finding the post now).

I think this is important information to know, whether these sheets were specific to the baby involved, or whether they were a record of who was on the ward and who was designated to each during the shift. Was it a handover sheet “for Baby X” or was it a handover sheet for X date? Because they’re very different things in the context of this trial in my opinion. Having an entire years worth of handover sheets (but no sheets for the years prior) strikes me as evidence gathering, especially when she had vocalised concerns on several occasions about staffing and skills mix. Might a handover sheet be something that could be shared with a union, since there are typically gateways there to share confidential information you otherwise wouldn’t disclose.

Just speculating, as the discovery that she kept every handover sheet across the relevant period does not seem to fit with the idea that these were trophies. Furthermore, if she had some kind of obsessive compulsive robin williams thing going on, it was triggered fairly suddenly, as she appears to have worked this job for many years without hoarding paperwork.

JMO.