UK - Nurse Lucy Letby Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #2

[ZaZara]

Exactly! Lets face it murder in a medical setting via insulin seems to be extremely common; Allitt did it that way and there have been numerous other cases where insulin has been used. These cases have been occurring for absolutely decades. If these deaths and collapses were genuinely unexpected and unexplained then surely poisoning by insulin would be an almost automatic thing to look in to?

This is what Lucia De Burk was accused of, was it not? We all know how that ended.

Lucia de Berk's alleged poison was digoxin. Digoxin is also present in the body naturally. Misinterpretation of the autopsy results of digoxin levels led to the initial charges and conviction.

 

[JosieJo]

For LL to have been charged the CPS, on the evidence alone must have assessed that there a realstic prospect of conviction on each individual charge.

It is an objective test based on the evidence alone.

Unfortunately the families considerations do not come into it. It is a pure test of law.

Are they new victims?

 

[Marantz4250b]

She might be guilty though. Why are you so sure she's innocent? We've hardly heard anything yet.

She may well be. When a phrase along the lines of "medication could have been tampered with" forms part of the prosecution's opening statement though it doesn't give the impression of a particularly compelling case.

I think I mentioned months back that whichever way this goes it is likely that we'll see a conviction or acquittal that is based around a highly tenuous and circumstantial set of events and evidence which, ultimately, is going to leave a bad taste with all parties concerned.

 

[Marantz4250b]

Are they new victims?

I think so. As I recall they stated 22 charges involving 20 people. The number was 18 people previously, I think.

 

[JosieJo]

I think so. As I recall they stated 22 charges involving 20 people. The number was 18 people previously, I think.

Aah I read it as they had added additional charges to existing victims

 

[Whitehall 1212]

Insulin is not a controlled drug on a ward it is normally in the medication fridge and does not have to be signed out as a rule of thumb anyway.
Would be very easy for a nurse to go to fridge and get it

Can you provide a source for this protocol please.

 

[Tortoise]

2:08pm

The afternoon session in court is to begin shortly.
LIVE: Trial of Lucy Letby accused of Countess of Chester Hospital baby murders

 

[JosieJo]

Nurse Lucy Letby poisoned babies with insulin, trial told

Lucy Letby is described as a "constant malevolent presence" at the opening of her murder trial.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[norealnameshere]

Can you provide a source for this protocol please.

None of us work at the hospital so unlikely to have access to their protocols.
However, every ward I've worked on has had insulin held as stock in the fridge. No need to sign it out.

That said, I've never worked with babies. Perhaps things are different there?

Remember you don't have to store insulin in the fridge* once it's in use either.

*The common ones anyway, can't say for certain if it's all of them

 

[Whitehall 1212]

I'm surprised the prosecution is allowed to make such dramatic statements in court, I guess 'was present' doesn't sound as sinister

It's an adversarial system of justice. It's akin to theatre....with the jury being the audience and ultimately the critics.

 

[JosieJo]

Can you provide a source for this protocol please.

This is based on my experience as a Registered General Nurse but this may help
Here is the list of controlled drugs that hospitals have to register in a controlled drug book.
Other drugs can be stored in regular cupboards and fridges.

Insulin is a drug that requires storage in a fridge

Controlled drugs list

The most commonly encountered drugs currently controlled under the misuse of drugs legislation.

www.gov.uk

 

[Marantz4250b]

From the Standard
2:16pm

The cause of 'poisoning' "simply did not occur to medical staff working at the Countess that someone in the neonatal unit "would have injected them with insulin", the court heard.

Really? A patient's blood sugar suddenly and inexplicably plummets and one of the most common routes of medial homicide doesn't occur to those who are in attendance? I don't work in a hospital so perhaps this happens all the time?

 

[JosieJo]

From the Standard
2:16pm

The cause of 'poisoning' "simply did not occur to medical staff working at the Countess that someone in the neonatal unit "would have injected them with insulin", the court heard.

Really? A patient's blood sugar suddenly and inexplicably plummets and one of the most common routes of medial homicide doesn't occur to those who are in attendance? I don't work in a hospital so perhaps this happens all the time?

Honestly it's the last think anyone would think in the first instance it's so rare imo

 

[Marantz4250b]

2:18pm

Mr Johnson: The method by which these two babies were "attacked" was "by having air injected into the bloodstream – what the doctors call an air embolus."

I think that this has been suggested on here as a potential means. It will be interesting to see how they think they can prove this so long after the events.

 

[Tortoise]

2:10pm

Prosecutor Nicholas Johnson KC will resume the opening to the case.

2:12pm

We will hear further details on the two babies the prosecution say were deliberately poisoned by Lucy Letby.
One matter which was resolved during last week's legal discussions was on a matter of reporting restrictions. For this trial, nothing can be published that could identify any of the children listed in the charges.
While normally the media would be able to report the names of people who have died in court reporting, for this case a crown court judge has imposed a reporting restriction preventing the publication of all children listed on the charges, including the babies who died.
That means the press cannot report the names of the children or their parents, as well as witnesses connected with the children.
As a result, it has been agreed among the media that each of the children has been named as a letter - ie, 'Baby/Child A, Baby/Child B, Baby/Child C', following the pattern to 'Baby/Child Q'. Each letter will refer to a child listed on the charges Letby faces.
The media have been asked to stick with this system so all reports on the case will have a uniformed approach.

2:14pm

The babies, each a twin belonging to a separate family, were "poisoned with insulin", the prosecution said.
Mr Johnson said: "Both boys’ blood sugar inexplicably dropped to dangerous levels – the sort of levels that can result in all sorts of medical problems and ultimately in death if not rapidly rectified. Both boys survived because of the skill of the medical staff."

2:16pm

The cause of 'poisoning' "simply did not occur to medical staff working at the Countess that someone in the neonatal unit "would have injected them with insulin", the court heard.

2:17pm

Both babies 'targeted' with insulin had brothers. The prosecution say they too were "attacked" by Letby. One of the brothers "was killed".

2:18pm

Mr Johnson: The method by which these two babies were "attacked" was "by having air injected into the bloodstream – what the doctors call an air embolus."

2:21pm

Mr Johnson: For other babies, some were "harmed and killed" by the 'injection of air' into the bloodstream or via a tube into the stomach."
"Sometimes they were injected with 'too much' milk or some other fluid, or air, that can have catastrophic effects on the baby... sometimes insulin."
"But the constant presence at all these events was Lucy Letby."

LIVE: Trial of Lucy Letby accused of Countess of Chester Hospital baby murders

 

[JuicyLucy]

The incidence of twins and triplets throughout this seems somewhat unusual, does it not?

I think it's an artefact. Twins and other multiple births would be more likely to be premature and underweight, and therefore more likely to be in a SCBU or neonatal unit.

[Edited to remove speculation that was superseded by reports]

 

[Tortoise]

2:25pm

There are "many events" that will mirror the counts in the indictment, that the jury will hear, the prosecution tells the court.
A chart is displayed to the jury about the presence of staff on duty at the time the babies were "attacked", with Letby present for all 24 incidents listed between 2015 and 2016.
The majority of incidents are at night-time. No other member of registered nurse and/or nursery nurse staff is present for more than a total of seven incidents.

2:27pm

"It is a process of elimination," Mr Johnson tells the court.

LIVE: Trial of Lucy Letby accused of Countess of Chester Hospital baby murders

 

[Tortoise]

5m ago14:22

Letby 'thought she had got away with insulin poisonings'​

Lucy Letby thought she had "got away" with the attempted murders of Child F and Child L, the prosecution has told the court.
Both boys' blood sugar "inexplicably dropped to dangerous levels" - but both survived "because of the skill of the staff in the neonatal unit".
Staff initially attributed the drop in blood sugar to natural causes.
"It simply did not occur to the doctors, or anyone else in that hospital, that someone in the neonatal unit would have poisoned them with insulin," says Nick Johnson KC.
"Nobody would think in the neonatal unit of a hospital someone was trying to kill babies".
Children E and M were then harmed - and in the case of Child E killed - after air was injected into their bloodstream.
He says the means by which the children were harmed varied - sometimes injected with air, sometimes with insulin, sometimes by being given too much - but, prosecution says: "The constant presence when they were fatally attacked, or collapsed, was Lucy Letby."
He then shows the court a chart which shows the presence of staff at the time the 17 babies affected were attacked.
It shows Letby was on shift when all the babies were harmed.

Lucy Letby trial - live: 'A poisoner was at work in the hospital' - Nurse accused of killing seven babies goes on trial

 

[Bakers]

LIVE: Trial of Lucy Letby accused of Countess of Chester Hospital baby murders

THE trial of former Countess of Chester Hospital nurse Lucy Letby, who is accused of multiple baby murders, is due to finalise its jury and hear…

www.leaderlive.co.uk

 

[Tortoise]

I wonder how this number compares with the number of babies under her care that she isn't accused of harming.