UK - Nurse Lucy Letby Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #2

[JerseyGirl]

Lucy Letby trial: Mum walked in on nurse killing baby, trial told

Lucy Letby told the mother of a distressed baby "trust me I'm a nurse", her murder trial hears.

www.bbc.com

 

[meanmaryjean]

A well-written post Supernovae! I'd like to point out a similar reasoning was followed in the Lucia de Berk's case. Deaths were only considered suspicious if Lucia was on duty, while similar unexplained deaths when she wasn't on duty were not. When asked about why those deaths weren't considered suspicious a doctor or investigator (I have forgotten who it was) outright said "Because Lucia wasn't on duty." Baffling logic really...

On a different note, is anyone else a bit sceptical about the wide variety of murder methods? So far there's injections of air down a tube into their circulation, insulin through a feeding bag, feeding too much milk and pumping air down a tube into their stomachs. Normally a silent killer like this tends to stick to a single method and some of these methods don't strike me as something you can hide easily.

Do any of the medical professionals in here know if there are any markings visible to the naked eye when insulin binds to a bag or plastic?

No- insulin can be added to IV bags for a number of legitimate reasons. You would not know it was there unless labeled as such.
Also- "insulin through a feeding bag' is harmless. Insulin is inactivated by the acid in the stomach- which is why we don't have 'insulin pills' for diabetes.

 

[Legally Bland]

3:19pm

At 6.05am, following a further desaturation, 100mls of air was aspirated from the NG tube. When the tube was removed, the registrar noted thick secretions in her mouth "and a blood clot at the end of her breathing tube". There were also signs of infection.
Child G was transferred to Arrowe Park, before returning to the Countess neonatal unit just over a week later.

3:19pm

During that time, Child G "recovered remarkably".

Recap: Prosecution opens trial of Lucy Letby accused of Countess of Chester Hospital baby murders

THE trial of former Countess of Chester Hospital nurse Lucy Letby, who is accused of multiple baby murders, is due to finalise its jury and hear…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

 

[annpats]

The prosecution say Lucy Letby "took an unusual interest" in the family of Child E. She did social media searches on the parents two days after Child E’s death, and on August 23, September 14, October 5, November 5, December 7, and even on December 25.
The prosecution say there were further searches in January 2016.

Oh my!

 

[Legally Bland]

3:20pm

Five days after her return to the Countess, Child G was due to receive her immunisations, such was her improved condition.
A team of nurses came on the day shift that day, Lucy Letby being among them. Letby was Child G's designated nurse that day.

Recap: Prosecution opens trial of Lucy Letby accused of Countess of Chester Hospital baby murders

THE trial of former Countess of Chester Hospital nurse Lucy Letby, who is accused of multiple baby murders, is due to finalise its jury and hear…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

 

[Bakers]

I’ll be interested as the case progresses to see peoples opinions on whether the babies were actually murdered or not. Regardless of the feeling on LL.

Yes and me because according to tony chambers the chief executive of the hospital at the time said he had called in police to rule out foul play and was sure he had 90% of the answers.than left the hospital on LL 1st arrest with his full pension in place .

 

[Legally Bland]

3:23pm

Child G was fed with 40ml via a NG tube by Letby at 9.15am. At about 10.20am, Child G had projectile vomited twice and went apnoeic for several seconds, the court is told. Child G's blood saturations fell to 30%. The same problem she had faced two weeks prior.
A nurse took over the care from Letby at 11.30am, as Letby was looking after two other children in room 4.
The nurse took all the observations and noted Child G was connected to a 'Masimo monitor' - which measures oxygen saturations and heart rate levels. It is a device which stays on and cannot be turned off by a baby.

Recap: Prosecution opens trial of Lucy Letby accused of Countess of Chester Hospital baby murders

THE trial of former Countess of Chester Hospital nurse Lucy Letby, who is accused of multiple baby murders, is due to finalise its jury and hear…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

 

[L White]

I would love to know if it's the same off duty colleague she messages each time.

 

[Marantz4250b]

3:02pm

In a June 2019 police interview, Letby agreed with the idea that insulin would not be administered accidentally.
In November 2020, she was asked why she had searched for the parents of Child E and F. She said she thought it might be to see how Child F was doing.
She was asked asked about texting Child F’s blood sugar levels to an off- duty colleague at 8am. She said she must have looked on his chart.

Recap: Prosecution opens trial of Lucy Letby accused of Countess of Chester Hospital baby murders

THE trial of former Countess of Chester Hospital nurse Lucy Letby, who is accused of multiple baby murders, is due to finalise its jury and hear…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

A not unreasonable explanation. Not usual but not entirely unreasonable, I wouldn't have said.

 

[Legally Bland]

3:25pm

At 3.30pm a consultant doctor was called to cannulate Child G. Privacy screens were erected and Child G was on a trolley, with the monitor still attached.
The nurse went to care for another baby.
The consultant doctor said he "could not recall" if Child G's monitoring equipment was switched off during the cannula fitting, but "it is his practice to transfer the sensor from one limb to another or if temporary detachment is required to reattach the monitor as soon as possible."
He added if Child G was not stable he would not have left her.

Recap: Prosecution opens trial of Lucy Letby accused of Countess of Chester Hospital baby murders

THE trial of former Countess of Chester Hospital nurse Lucy Letby, who is accused of multiple baby murders, is due to finalise its jury and hear…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

 

[Legally Bland]

3:26pm

After the doctors had gone, the nurse responded to Lucy Letby's shout for help. When she attended, Child G's monitor had been switched off (power was off). Child G was struggling to breathe. Letby was giving ventilation breaths.
Child G responded to treatment.

Recap: Prosecution opens trial of Lucy Letby accused of Countess of Chester Hospital baby murders

THE trial of former Countess of Chester Hospital nurse Lucy Letby, who is accused of multiple baby murders, is due to finalise its jury and hear…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

 

[gill1109]

Now15:32

Child A 'most likely' died after being injected with air​

Multiple medical experts concluded the cause of Child A's collapse was "not some natural disease process".
One said his collapse was "consistent" with a "deliberate injection" a minute or two prior to his deterioration - at a time when only Lucy Letby was present.
Two doctors concluded his death was most likely caused by an injection of air into either his umbilical venous catheter (UVC) or his long line.
A radiologist concluded that "even allowing for post-mortem gases to develop, the gas pattern seen in the x-rays was unusual and in keeping with air being injected into Child A's bloodstream".

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“Consistent with” says: she could have done it. The event is surely also consistent with other scenarios. Probably it is also consistent with actions of other nurses at other moments. I moreover imagine that accidental introduction of air into a cannula used for intravenous administration of necessary fluids is possible due to faulty apparatus or damaged bottles of fluids. At present we only have experts who were employed at the hospital or instructed by the prosecution. The defence will have instructed other experts. We will hear from them later. The question remains: if the collapse was completely unexpected and if it was so obviously weird why did the hypothesis of an injection of air not come up earlier? How come it’s taken five years to gather this evidence?

 

[Bakers]

Waiting until your trial to give your side of events for the first time is not terribly sensible....Not remembering what happened during the most traumatic cases of your life (including an interaction with the mother you check up every month on FB) doesn't look good. Not remembering if you've checked up a family every month?

Nobody can give their account of any crime you are waiting to go to trial on

 

[Legally Bland]

3:28pm

In a text sent by Letby to a colleague, she wrote Child G: "...looked rubbish when I took over this morning then she vomited at 9 and I got her screened … mum said she hasn’t been herself for a couple of days”.
But the prosecution said Child G had been due to have her immunisations, something which would not have been contemplated if Child G had not been well.
The prosecution say Child G had vomited because she had been given excessive milk and air.
A subsequent MRI scan revealed neurological changes and, in August 2016, it was revealed Child G had suffered "irreversible brain damage".

Recap: Prosecution opens trial of Lucy Letby accused of Countess of Chester Hospital baby murders

THE trial of former Countess of Chester Hospital nurse Lucy Letby, who is accused of multiple baby murders, is due to finalise its jury and hear…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

 

[Legally Bland]

3:29pm

The overfeeding "doesn't happen by accident," Mr Johnson told the court.
He added similar cases will be heard with other babies.

3:30pm

Mr Johnson: "Someone had switched off the monitor when Child G collapsed, and she was 'discovered' by Lucy Letby".

Recap: Prosecution opens trial of Lucy Letby accused of Countess of Chester Hospital baby murders

THE trial of former Countess of Chester Hospital nurse Lucy Letby, who is accused of multiple baby murders, is due to finalise its jury and hear…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

 

[Whitehall 1212]

Is it possible this is due to the manner in which questions were posed? For example 'what were you doing on the evening of February 19th 2015' would evoke 'can't remember' in most people.

The police interview process wouldn't pose a question in this way. There is a methodical framework known by the mnemonic PEACE

P reparation and Planning (officer pre-interview),
E ngage and Explain (initial introduction including caution etc),
A ccount (suspects 1st account), clarify (what suspect says - get detail) and challenge (introduce evidence to disprove)
C lose (Interview admin before terminating interview)
E valuation (review interview and decide on next steps)

Or is it another way of saying 'no comment'? Would a solicitor / barrister advise a person to respond 'can't remember'?

The legal advisor can't concoct a story for the client or advise them to lie.

The legal adviser will receive disclosure by the police of some or all of the witness statements, pre-interview. They will then consult privately with their client (soundproof room normally....no bugs!)

It may be that they consider the evidence weak and are therefore likely to advise their clients on their right not to say anything.... although convention is "no comment" "for the benefit of the tape"!

To account for the evidence in the police statements a further statement could be prepared by the solicitor in the clients' words, accounting for the evidence and then handed over at the start of the interview. Followed by "no comment" to any questions.

The third option is to provide a full and frank admission, as in "sing like a canary".

The fourth option is if you are innocent....probably best not playing games and just co-operate, if you have faith in the justice system.

Also, when a person is accused of a heinous crime such as this one, do they get quite heavily medicated whilst either on remand in prison or at home in the community? Some psychiatric medications can render a person barely able to function or interact but may well be needed.

Sedative medication should only be given when there is a clinical need, as with anyone. I know there have been some horror stories with the elderly and severe learning disabilities in the past, so I'd never say never. Although, I've never come across it in prison and I've been in a few

 

[Legally Bland]

3:35pm

In police interview, Letby said she remembered the nurse had been on her break when the incident happened with Child G in nursery 2. She could not remember who had been assigned to look after her.
Letby suggested the excess air in Child G after the vomiting was the result of some sort of infection, or as a consequence of the vomiting.
She said she had withdrawn the 45mls of milk after that episode, and air had come with it, and she had seen Child G vomiting.
She said she did not know why she had gone into the room, but it was possible it was as a result of hearing Child G vomiting.
Letby 'vaguely' recalled the day Child G vomited after her return to the hospital, accepting she had been the designated nurse. She had no recollection of Child G vomiting.
In a subsequent interview, Letby accepted there were only two alternatives to the first vomiting incident - that Child G had been fed far more than should have been, or she had not digested her earlier feed.
She accepted that the clear inference to be drawn was that Child G had been given excess milk and air via the NGT. She denied responsibility for either of those eventualities.

Recap: Prosecution opens trial of Lucy Letby accused of Countess of Chester Hospital baby murders

THE trial of former Countess of Chester Hospital nurse Lucy Letby, who is accused of multiple baby murders, is due to finalise its jury and hear…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

 

[gill1109]

None (and it violates patient confidentiality.)

Nurses regularly accidentally take all kinds of stuff home in their nurse’s smock. Remember: they work long hours, very intensively. Have to deal with lots of paperwork as well as direct patient care. Are often not treated with respect and dignity by senior medics. There are worrying events happening all the time and regularly very traumatic events. Lucia de Berk had stuff at home which shouldn’t have been there. Everybody did.

 

[Legally Bland]

3:37pm

For the second incident, Letby denied either over-feeding or injecting air into Child G's stomach.
In Novemver 2020, Letby denied to police that she had switched off the Masimo monitor.
She was asked about Facebook searches carried done on the day of the second vomiting incident that Letby looked up the parents of Child G. She said "she had no recollection of them".

Recap: Prosecution opens trial of Lucy Letby accused of Countess of Chester Hospital baby murders

THE trial of former Countess of Chester Hospital nurse Lucy Letby, who is accused of multiple baby murders, is due to finalise its jury and hear…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

 

[Legal]

It's very sad that child G suffered irreversible brain damage. The poor parents.