UK - Nurse Lucy Letby, Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #20

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If she doesn't know if she killed them or not, then there is a strong possibility that she may have.

And an equally strong possibility that she may not have, since I'd question why someone knowingly guilty would be questioning themselves in this way.

I think the fact that she was the only one present for ALL of the cases goes a long way towards proving that.

Maybe. But I'm happy to wait and see how the prosecution ties all this up into one big guilty bow.
 
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The 'on purpose' part only makes sense if the writer is hypothesising about what they are accused of doing. Why would a killer use that phrase?
I've got to be honest, I don't get this argument. Is this some kind of double think? Where the fact that someone has written 'i killed them on purpose', and 'I'm evil I did this' is actually used as evidence to say that someone is innocent.
 
ADMIN NOTE:

I just had occasion to make this post in another thread and it seems it might be appropriate for this one as well.

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This post lands at random.

There's a bit of a tone going on in this thread that we are finding unsettling. When you enter the room, there's a little room off to the side where you can check your attitude ;)

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Well, just hypothesising... If I were a killer, I think that saying I killed someone would be sufficient. "On purpose" is a bit superfluous, imo.
It’s almost an affirmation of it. I killed them, On purpose. That’s what suggests doubt to me. No need to reaffirm that one did indeed kill them on purpose. same as I am evil, I did this. it’s not what I would expect in cold language almost like the ending is a dramatic and emphatic use of language. I’m leaving it there though, my position on that note is unchanged.
 
Th
I've got to be honest, I don't get this argument. Is this some kind of double think? Where the fact that someone has written 'i killed them on purpose', and 'I'm evil I did this' is actually used as evidence to say that someone is innocent.
imo there is only one way that sentence would be used and it’s in a genuine admission of guilt to an external audience Where there is doubt either in the minds of the audience or the individual saying it has created doubt in others minds deliberately. If there Is no external audience imagined or otherwise then the sentence is directed at oneself And thus no need to affirm ones own deliberate action. Blaming oneself for something that one really does know one didn’t do is double think. It’s called being in two minds about something, otherwise known as ”did I” or “didn’t I“ and is a frequent aspect of ones lived experience if they live in a world that’s accusing them of something. Akin to gaslighting and the endless inner conflict that comes with it.
 
I just can't imagine any killer saying "I did this on purpose." It sounds ridiculous (to me, a native English speaker). It has to mean "They said I did this on purpose." JMO

At the time the hospital were telling her she had been moved and her competence was being looked at ...not that she was doing anything on purpose

So in effect while being told you may have accidentally harmed babies...if a killer..it makes perfect sense to say in your mind ...actually no ....I killed them on purpose
 
I will also say I wouldn’t think that of that note if it said deliberately rather than LOn purpose” and didn’t include the other words, “I haven’t done anything wrong”. Really really does suggest inner conflict about the supposed event imo.

there have been other reported writings of her that support what she said in police interviews as well. Big one for me was the text to doc choc, “good enough”. Also this note being found in her 2016 diary. Presumably on a date close to when that text was made. As that text was maybe a week away from being suspended?
 
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At the time the hospital were telling her she had been moved and her competence was being looked at ...not that she was doing anything on purpose

So in effect while being told you may have accidentally harmed babies...if a killer..it makes perfect sense to say in your mind ...actually no ....I killed them on purpose
does it make sense for her to write “I haven’t done anything wrong”? Then write that as well. Not to me, too many conflicting statements at the same time suggests to me inner turmoil and conflicted thinking ie being unsure. There’s nothing in any of her notes, personal coms, reactions, sequences of events that to me suggest she knows she did it.
 
I just can't imagine any killer saying "I did this on purpose." It sounds ridiculous (to me, a native English speaker). It has to mean "They said I did this on purpose." JMO


Well I'm a native English speaker and it makes perfect sense to me.

Killing can be accidental or deliberate. By saying you killed someone on purpose, you're clarifying that it was deliberate not accidental. And it would be particularly relevant to make that distinction if you worked in a job where incompetence could have led to you accidentally killing somebody.

The sentence "I killed them on purpose", regardless of who is writing it, means not only did I kill them but I killed them on purpose.

If you were to say "I murdered them on purpose" that would sound weird, and there would be no need to add the "on purpose" because murdering is always deliberate. Whereas killing isn't. So it's not ridiculous to clarify that you killed somebody on purpose. IMO

All JMO
 
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I totally agree about the insulin cases. I thought initially that they might be crucial, but as soon as we heard the evidence I never felt they were remotely compelling. There are just too many question marks for me.
Would agree Mary, the first insulin case was the first case where the link to LL was weak.
Thoughts after hearing it were, she'll only get a guilty on these if the other charges are accepted as foul play.
 
Well I'm a native English speaker and it makes perfect sense to me.

Killing can be accidental or deliberate. By saying you killed someone on purpose, you're clarifying that it was deliberate not accidental. And it would be particularly relevant to make that distinction if you worked in a job where incompetence could have led to you accidentally killing somebody.

The sentence "I killed them on purpose", regardless of who is writing it, means not only did I kill them but I killed them on purpose.

If you were to say "I murdered them on purpose" that would sound weird, and there would be no need to add the "on purpose" because murdering is always deliberate. Whereas killing isn't. So it's not ridiculous to clarify that you killed somebody on purpose. IMO

All JMO
You're forgetting, these were notes to herself. She didn't need to explain it.
 
Well I'm a native English speaker and it makes perfect sense to me.

Killing can be accidental or deliberate. By saying you killed someone on purpose, you're clarifying that it was deliberate not accidental. And it would be particularly relevant to make that distinction if you worked in a job where incompetence could have led to you accidentally killing somebody.

The sentence "I killed them on purpose", regardless of who is writing it, means not only did I kill them but I killed them on purpose.

If you were to say "I murdered them on purpose" that would sound weird, and there would be no need to add the "on purpose" because murdering is always deliberate. Whereas killing isn't. So it's not ridiculous to clarify that you killed somebody on purpose. IMO

All JMO
It is ridiculous when you are clarifying it to yourself.
 
does it make sense for her to write “I haven’t done anything wrong”? Then write that as well. Not to me, too many conflicting statements at the same time suggests to me inner turmoil and conflicted thinking ie being unsure. There’s nothing in any of her notes, personal coms, reactions, sequences of events that to me suggest she knows she did it.
Absolutely, her notes are full of contradictions. On one hand she writes 'I did it, I am an evil and horrible person' and 'i killed them on purpose'. Elsewhere she writes she's done nothing wrong, and is not good enough.

I don't think anyone would argue with you saying that the notes indicate inner turmoil, she's clearly not in a good place emotionally or mentally. However I disagree that this indicates innocence, necessarily. Someone who does what she is accused of could be completely remorseless and unable to sympathise with victims. Or they could hate themselves and what they have done. They may desperately want to stop, may want help to stop, but be unable to because of some sort of buzz it gives them. I don't think the notes are incongruous with this second description.

Also when they were written no one had accused her of deliberately doing anything.
 
You're forgetting, these were notes to herself. She didn't need to explain it .
That really makes no difference as to whether the sentence itself makes sense or not.

We don't know why she wrote the note. When questioned about why she wrote "kill myself right now" she admitted that she was considering suicide when she wrote it so it's possible that some elements of it were intended to be a suicide note. IMO

But regardless of why she wrote it, the sentence itself makes grammatical sense. And as killing can be accidental or deliberate, the "on purpose" part is not, as you'd suggested "superfluous".

JMO
 
That really makes no difference as to whether the sentence itself makes sense or not.

We don't know why she wrote the note. When questioned about why she wrote "kill myself right now" she admitted that she was considering suicide when she wrote it so it's possible that some elements of it were intended to be a suicide note. IMO

But regardless of why she wrote it, the sentence itself makes grammatical sense. And as killing can be accidental or deliberate, the "on purpose" part is not, as you'd suggested "superfluous".

JMO
Okay, so it's all down to individual interpretation.
 
That really makes no difference as to whether the sentence itself makes sense or not.

We don't know why she wrote the note. When questioned about why she wrote "kill myself right now" she admitted that she was considering suicide when she wrote it so it's possible that some elements of it were intended to be a suicide note. IMO

But regardless of why she wrote it, the sentence itself makes grammatical sense. And as killing can be accidental or deliberate, the "on purpose" part is not, as you'd suggested "superfluous".

JMO
I’m going to deadhead my daffodils so I can make a million pounds. Linguistically Makes sense, rationally is insane. strangely accurate example of word salad.

it is superfluous considering the answer only makes sense in response to a question of “did you kill these babies”?.
 
Absolutely, her notes are full of contradictions. On one hand she writes 'I did it, I am an evil and horrible person' and 'i killed them on purpose'. Elsewhere she writes she's done nothing wrong, and is not good enough.

I don't think anyone would argue with you saying that the notes indicate inner turmoil, she's clearly not in a good place emotionally or mentally. However I disagree that this indicates innocence, necessarily. Someone who does what she is accused of could be completely remorseless and unable to sympathise with victims. Or they could hate themselves and what they have done. They may desperately want to stop, may want help to stop, but be unable to because of some sort of buzz it gives them. I don't think the notes are incongruous with this second description.

Also when they were written no one had accused her of deliberately doing anything.
I agree that note isnt Proof of innocence But it is certainly nothing even approaching proof of guilt, the only sentence in it that could be construed that way is the fact that there was no police investigation at that time.
 
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