UK - Nurse Lucy Letby, Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #20

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Absolutely, her notes are full of contradictions. On one hand she writes 'I did it, I am an evil and horrible person' and 'i killed them on purpose'. Elsewhere she writes she's done nothing wrong, and is not good enough.

I don't think anyone would argue with you saying that the notes indicate inner turmoil, she's clearly not in a good place emotionally or mentally. However I disagree that this indicates innocence, necessarily. Someone who does what she is accused of could be completely remorseless and unable to sympathise with victims. Or they could hate themselves and what they have done. They may desperately want to stop, may want help to stop, but be unable to because of some sort of buzz it gives them. I don't think the notes are incongruous with this second description.

Also when they were written no one had accused her of deliberately doing anything.
That’s the other thing. All that turmoil and chaos, you really think she’s in the right place to be writing what is alleged to be a confession? No I wouldn’t. I never take emotion laden projection as serious talk, said it before its warm language in a proper confession it’s always cold Maybe interspersed with warmer words. Imo.
 
I’m going to deadhead my daffodils so I can make a million pounds. Linguistically Makes sense, rationally is insane. strangely accurate example of word salad.

it is superfluous considering the answer only makes sense in response to a question of “did you kill these babies”?.
No it doesn't. "I killed them on purpose" makes perfect sense as a standalone sentence.
 
That’s the other thing. All that turmoil and chaos, you really think she’s in the right place to be writing what is alleged to be a confession? No I wouldn’t. I never take emotion laden projection as serious talk, said it before its warm language in a proper confession it’s always cold Maybe interspersed with warmer words. Imo.
I don't think the prosecution are arguing that she intended to write the note as a confession to be read by others. More the words betray her inner turmoil, guilt and self loathing. It could be the beginnings of a suicide note. Maybe she was working up to it.
 
I agree that note isnt Proof of innocence But it is certainly nothing even approaching proof of guilt, the only sentence in it that could be construed that way is the fact that there was no police investigation at that time.
But there were other bits she scribbled out as part of her 'process' like 'maybe I did do this, maybe it's all down to me'
So I'd have thought, to cross that out (and other areas of text on other notes) that are REALLY blacked out, suggests that she was aware her notes could incriminate her but she forgot to dispose of them.
Guilty or innocent, she seemed in denial that anything happened but also doubted herself and questioned whether she was guilty or not of the alleged offences She openly admitted in court that 'that's what she felt at the time' but then confirmed that she was sure she did not hurt any of them. So paradoxical.
 
But by that logic, why write the notes at all? If she already knows the true state of things and her own mind, why write anything?
It’s the byproduct of not being sure of something that someone no matter how deeply buried does indeed know.
 
You're forgetting, these were notes to herself. She didn't need to explain it.
You have done an excellent job of describing the note, how I interpreted it. I think even verbally though, it is difficult to explain this viewpoint. My husband is very black and white, takes things literally and would never say things he didn’t mean in an argument. He didn’t get why LL would write that to herself if it wasn’t true either. He has never experienced depression/self loathing and that is exactly how I read this note. Where others saw it as a red flag, the sheer lack of confidence in herself made me think she didn’t fit the profile. JMO
 
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But there were other bits she scribbled out as part of her 'process' like 'maybe I did do this, maybe it's all down to me'
So I'd have thought, to cross that out (and other areas of text on other notes) that are REALLY blacked out, suggests that she was aware her notes could incriminate her but she forgot to dispose of them.
Guilty or innocent, she seemed in denial that anything happened but also doubted herself and questioned whether she was guilty or not of the alleged offences She openly admitted in court that 'that's what she felt at the time' but then confirmed that she was sure she did not hurt any of them. So paradoxical.
Think of it this way. You are accused of something, at the start of that process you are sure you didn’t do anything but after weeks and months of having nearly everyobe try to convince you that you did do something you sure as hell will start to doubt yourself. It’s the way abusers mentally condition people, it’s the way gaslighting works and it’s also a part of traumatic bonding eventually leading to Stockholm syndrome. She only became confident once her competencies were given the all clear, before that much niggling doubt But never thinking if she did hurt them it was deliberate. Especially close to the time of suspension.
 
Think of it this way. You are accused of something, at the start of that process you are sure you didn’t do anything but after weeks and months of having nearly everyobe try to convince you that you did do something you sure as hell will start to doubt yourself. It’s the way abusers mentally condition people, it’s the way gaslighting works and it’s also a part of traumatic bonding eventually leading to Stockholm syndrome. She only became confident once her competencies were given the all clear, before that much niggling doubt But never thinking if she did hurt them it was deliberate. Especially close to the time of suspension.
Ok but in her police interview she said she wrote the note around July/August 2016. Just weeks after being taken off the unit. So she seems to have spiralled into this pretty quickly
 
Ok but in her police interview she said she wrote the note around July/August 2016. Just weeks after being taken off the unit. So she seems to have spiralled into this pretty quickly
Not to mention she still worked full time in "Safety..." office.

So
Can a person suffering from:

- mental breakdown
- PTSD
- depression

carry on working without raising suspicion/worry of employers?

Her medicines were prescribed by GP according to the report. <modsnip>

JMO
 
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Ok but in her police interview she said she wrote the note around July/August 2016. Just weeks after being taken off the unit. So she seems to have spiralled into this pretty quickly
She was suspended from the job she loved and was more or less her whole world in her own words. The impact will be felt immediately and then every following day in the very same hospital, surrounded by all the same staff with every wakeful Second another reminder of what she is accused of, followed by the realisation that only she has been taken off the ward will presumably be quite torturous if innocent. A fitting saying “killing me softly” akin to what is described in some literature “death by a thousand cuts”. It’s described in some psychological books. She was surrounded by things reminding her of her ongoing suffering.

incidentally I find it a telling thing she didn’t really object to this sequence of events up until the competencies were done, giving them the all clear also told her that she hadn’t done anything wrong, deliberately or accidentally and then the grievance was made. She trusted the people investigating and the process. Imo. <modsnip: quoted post was snipped>
 
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Yes, but how did we get here? How did she end up being charged and arrested?

If innocent, then it is hard to understand why she didn't take steps to avoid this exact situation. People were getting suspicious very early on, about all of the collapses happening around her in the unit. She even knew because her colleagues spoke about her 'run of bad luck.'

Why didn't she do anything to avoid being the prime suspect? If I saw babies all around me collapsing for some unknown reason, I am going to step back and make sure I am NOT the main connection to the events. Many people suggested that to her and she stubbornly rejected the idea.

She has babies collapsing 3 or 4 x in a row, sometimes dying on back to back nights, and she doesn't think that she should take a break so they can figure out what is going so wrong?

After triplet babies O and P died, quite unexpectedly ion back to back nights, the whole unit was shocked. But LL was hellbent on then taking care of the lone surviving triplet, until the parents urgently demanded they all be transferred out of the Countess.

Her friends, colleagues and superiors all tried to convince her to take a 'self care break' but she insists on taking care of babies the next night too, and then Baby Q collapsed unexpectedly. That was a when she was finally deemed suspicious enough to be removed from the unit.
None of that was anything to do with the point of mine you responded to.

The poster I replied to said that having the police call by was in no way able to trigger PTSD; he was equating multiple unannounced arrests, two and a half years in prison and the utter destruction of someone's career, social and family life in a process which, to date, has been going on for somewhere approaching seven years to "a casual police visit to answer some questions"!

It's blindingly obvious to anyone with the slightest appreciation of human feelings that such a course of events is highly likely to result in severe mental trauma. Whether that person is guilty or not, or has in some way contributed towards it, is not the point.

We've even had a post from someone who has actually been through a situation being mistakenly arrested and has indeed suffered from PTSD because of it.
 
Yep @Sweeper2000 - I remember the PTSD being linked to the arrests.
It can be a really traumatic experience in and of itself in my experience.
Definitely. especially for any individual who has zero experience with anything like it. For her the arrests were also on top of what had been around a years worth of at least high stress. then to top it all off, 6 am raid, handcuffs and pyjamas for someone who seems like someone who belongs a billion light years away from these accusations.
 
I don't see any hypothesising in

"I am evil. I did this".

It looks like affirmative sentence to me.
Granted, Im not an Eng native speaker.

JMO
But the statements of innocence are more numerous than the statement as to guilt. You can't just pick the ones which fit what you want to think.
 
I just can't imagine any killer saying "I did this on purpose." It sounds ridiculous (to me, a native English speaker). It has to mean "They said I did this on purpose." JMO
I agree. This is not how people talk, at least not adults. It's like something you'd hear from a seven year-old.
 
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