UK - Nurse Lucy Letby, Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #21

[Sweeper2000]

Well nothing I have read so far 'says' or even implies why someone would do that. It's not a prosecution or a defense point of interest to my understanding so far. Statistics are not a prosecution point.

In terms of why aka potential motive, that would be getting into speculative territory.

I have my own obvious opinions that I try to leave out of my comments as you should also do.

If by why someone wo do that you mean why lots in one month but not others? Could be for lots of reasons. Ie busier days so more in a rush to get home, rushed exit from the hospital etc loads of reasons could even be a memento. Or do You mean why take them home at all?

I let the evidence inform my opinion and if I’m right about this it’s not the first time.

 

[katydid23]

Have to agree, it came off as a little gung ho,
A more sensitive build may have won him more points with the jury.
Perhaps he's fCkd off with her bs!!

I don't think he had time for a sensitive build today. Nor do I think he should have been especially sensitive.

He is a very experienced and intelligent professional. He can read the room. He has been there for all the testimony and has watched the jury. I think he matched what some of them are thinking.

He had to be aggressive if he is going to get the point across that he firmly believes she is guilty of attacking and killing numerous babies. Why would he be sweet and sensitive towards the defendant if that is what he truly believes, based upon the investigation results?

 

[esther43]

Yes. Hopefully his ratio of describing events/ questioning the witness will be more evenly distributed.
I can't help but think if there was no case to answer and the circumstantial evidence was not strong, then perhaps letby could have evaded the stand.
However, I also think that if she's innocent this would be her best shot.

 

[esther43]

I don't think he had time for a sensitive build today. Nor do I think he should have been especially sensitive.

He is a very experienced and intelligent professional. He can read the room. He has been there for all the testimony and has watched the jury. I think he matched what some of them are thinking.

He had to be aggressive if he is going to get the point across that he firmly believes she is guilty of attacking and killing numerous babies. Why would he be sweet and sensitive towards the defendant if that is what he truly believes, based upon the investigation results?

I agree that he wouldn't have had the time for pussy footing around and I agree, he will have been able to read the room.

 

[Dotta]

I don't think he had time for a sensitive build today. Nor do I think he should have been especially sensitive.

He is a very experienced and intelligent professional. He can read the room. He has been there for all the testimony and has watched the jury. I think he matched what some of them are thinking.

He had to be aggressive if he is going to get the point across that he firmly believes she is guilty of attacking and killing numerous babies. Why would he be sweet and sensitive towards the defendant if that is what he truly believes, based upon the investigation results?

Amen to that!

 

[Parker Knoll]

Phew - what an exhausting day and the chickens do appear to be coming home to roost for the worlds most unluckiest nurse.

Strong start with the prosecution and let’s not forget NJ was only cross examining her for around 20 minutes and she was already in tears hence the question he asked around her only crying for herself … she better buckle up for tomorrow that’s for sure and great tactic just starting before the close of the court day, she will spend this evening fizzing.
I find the collection of the handover sheets and I have said it before sinister and with an end game on her part. I have never bought her narrative that she doesn’t like throwing things away. She kept them to read and read them again. She moved them from her pocket to nurses accommodation then flat, nurses accommodation again then her own home then her parents and popped them in the shredder box marked “ KEEP “
She dragged them to work in her work bag day in day out.
It’s insanity she didn’t give them thought - it’s utter nonsense.

Doctor J is lying and misleading the court according to her testimony today which again is absurd, her own Counsel didn’t challenge Dr J’s version of events as confirmed by the trial Judge, she wasn’t there cot side and the conversation didn’t happen coupled with not being able to remember in her police interviews WHERE she was is almost laughable should this case not be so utterly tragic.… Get your story straight Letby - pick a lane.

As for the prosecution appearing “ amateur “ and “ desperate “ as one poster commented upthread I would say and to quote Letby …. There are no words “
He went in hard exactly how it should be done and there will be plenty more where that came from, it was anything but amateur and desperate.

Perhaps it wasn’t such a great idea to take the stand thinking about it eh ?
That commute up the M56 tomorrow is going to feel very long.

All my own opinion obviously.

 

[Sweeper2000]

He can’t be that good, he didn’t emphasise it being a constant in the trial. Could have emphasised just how unusual that is for someone who “cares deeply about the babies”.

 

[ColourPurple]

I agree that he wouldn't have had the time for pussy footing around and I agree, he will have been able to read the room.

Exactly. He was only cross examining her for around half an hour today. He's got plenty of time to address all the other things!

 

[Marantz4250b]

The handover notes speak to her character in my opinion.

You can't play smart and dumb at the same time. You have to pick a lane.

She said it was only a few, but it was 250. She said the papers were in varied places around her house, but she stored them in folders, under her bed, at her parents house etc. She's quick to call out other peoples mistakes but has no idea what to do with confidential information.

She would have been better off just saying on the stand that she's a hoarder of paper. That for me would be easier to understand than her current explanations.

Exactly! She's said herself that she has issues throwing stuff away so why not just come right out and say it in relation to these? Not being able to chuck stuff out is very different from actively collecting it in the first place, though. I still think there's something she can't psychologically accept, admit, deal with or however you want to put it.

 

[esther43]

He can’t be that good, he didn’t emphasise it being a constant in the trial. Could have emphasised just how unusual that is for someone who “cares deeply about the babies”.

He did however get her to admit to ferrying around five years worth of handover notes in ten minutes flat.

 

[Sweeper2000]

He did however get her to admit to ferrying around five years worth of handover notes in ten minutes flat.

She couldn’t deny it and never has as far as I know.

 

[Marantz4250b]

So, please help me get this straight. If LL started taking home handover sheets early on in her time at CoC, that would imply the earlier ones were potentially moved 3 times - hospital accommodation>friend's flat>hospital accommodation>house. For me that is particularly odd as it absolutely had to be a conscious decision. I know a lot of people don't give much weight to these documents, likewise the FB searches, but the more I think about it the stranger it all seems to me. I try to imagine how I'd feel if one if my colleagues had done this, and I really feel I would have been very disturbed by it.
All JMO

I agree, it's deeply weird. I'm not at all convinced that it's directly linked to or is in anyway indicative of her having committed the crimes she's accused of. Especially given we now know that these things span a period of five years.

Same with the FB searches, tbh. There are way too many for them to be directly connected to what she's accused of.

All MOO, of course.

 

[katydid23]

No the original quote was around what it was that the cps thought worthy enough to bring to trial. Obviously accusations by themselves aren’t. I woUID have thought in there shoes they need to see what they could use to build a strong trial worthy case. Dr evans diagnosis of criminal AE would be it And they have built everything else after it and around it.

I don’t think you can draw much from the notes with some exception, for instance the 17 of 31 in the Morrison’s bag. I certainly don’t think you could make a case for the notes being evidence of her not caring about rules or patient confidentiality. The two Exceptions being five notes in box at parents and the one note in the bin bag, all the other evidence ie 99% of the information about the handovers notes suggest at least some care. If she really didn’t give a damn about them she would just discard them without any thought for who could read them which would be evidence imo of someone not caring about patient confidentiality.

I agree with your last paragraph.

I think you can absolutely make a case of her 'not caring about rules or patient confidentiality'. She broke the rules at least 250 times and she ignored the patient confidentiality requirement. How can we say she 'gave any care' when she herself admits they were spread around her home.

If she did give a damn about confidentiality she could have easily disposed of them ---shredded or torn up or burned or returned them to work and put in the proper bin. Leaving them lying about in various places is the opposite of caring about the confidential nature of them.

 

[Sweeper2000]

I agree, it's deeply weird. I'm not at all convinced that it's directly linked to or is in anyway indicative of her having committed the crimes she's accused of. Especially given we now know that these things span a period of five years.

Same with the FB searches, tbh. There are way too many for them to be directly connected to what she's accused of.

All MOO, of course.

It’s really weird if it was always the same folder. Same folder five years means something IMO. I’d be very very very interested to hear when the most recent date in the folder was.

 

[Marantz4250b]

It really is very odd isn't it? I mean seriously, why would you cart them around with you?

She's said she has issues getting rid of things. Although gathering stuff like this is a different matter.

Definitely something really, really strange going on with her.

 

[Parker Knoll]

Not knowing how to get rid of the handover sheets again is insane.
From initial arrest to charging 3 bonfire nights went past - there is 3 opportunities missed !
She didn’t get rid of them because she didn’t want to.
MOO

 

[Marantz4250b]

I knew some were found spread in two bags but I thought the majority of them were found in a folder at home or maybe I’m conflating it with the notes found in her blue folder at work?

if they were indeed found scattered in The house I am truly surprised the prosecution didn’t mention it.

I'm sure she mentioned herself that she put them in a folder. I can't recall this folder being mentioned by anyone else, though.

 

[katydid23]

A more accurate comparison would be someone at your bank taking home the printed copy of their diary appointments for that day. Customers’ surname, possibly a date of birth or single account number, and the purpose of the appointment.

More like 250 diary appointment sheets with ALL of the names of customers in the bank that day. [the handover sheets have the names and info of all of the patients in the unit]

 

[Sweeper2000]

I think you can absolutely make a case of her 'not caring about rules or patient confidentiality'. She broke the rules at least 250 times and she ignored the patient confidentiality requirement. How can we say she 'gave any care' when she herself admits they were spread around her home.

If she did give a damn about confidentiality she could have easily disposed of them ---shredded or torn up or burned or returned them to work and put in the proper bin. Leaving them lying about in various places is the opposite of caring about the confidential nature of them.

I’m not sure her official duties have actually been breached. If she’s right and her only mandatory requirement is to make sure no other eyes or ears get the info on the sheets she hasn’t technically done anything wrong. I would assume either mr Myers or herself really does know the rules so that’s why that’s been said.

are exceptions but now I’m thinking why Mr Johnson once stressed this was a document that absolutely should not have left the hospital , might be the only document that is legally required to be disposed of or stored at the hospital.
probably blood gas printout or something like that.

her house is a safe space, not public by any means. If her continuous testimony is correct and she left them on the kitchen counter after work and then put them in the folder it suggests she does care about patient confidentiality.

 

[WaxLyrical]

More like 250 diary appointment sheets with ALL of the names of customers in the bank that day. [the handover sheets have the names and info of all of the patients in the unit]

No, the unit held something like 15 babies max. Not the name of every patient in the hospital.