UK - Nurse Lucy Letby, Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #21

[Marantz4250b]

I don't think we know what her real goals in life were. She probably didn't even know. But that house didn't necessarily explain to us what they were.

It could have been a financial investment more than anything else. We don't really know. JMO

Granted, we've seen nothing in actual evidence or heard from her directly as to what her aspirations in life were but I think we can take a few things as highly likely as to what she wanted to achieve; from her notes, a family and children seem high on the list; she was obviously highly career driven and motivated to progress to higher levels and suchlike. The house definitely seems to fit in with wanting a family.

All of this, IMO, just doesn't fit with wanting to murder babies, as far as I can see, so if she's guilty then I think we'll be speculating for ever more about what drove her.

All MOO.

 

[Sweeper2000]

She said as a child she wanted to be a nurse supported by statements from her neighbours. She said she was the first in her family To go uni. She also said the purchase of the house was a major milestone for her.

 

[Parker Knoll]

Obviously we don’t know her financial situation when she bought the house but a deposit possibly from mum and dad and decent interest rates coupled with her practically doing every shifts possible the house is not a massive stretch at all for her. She could of lived there without doing anything to it and made a profit when she sold it.
She just needed to get the initial foot on the ladder.
My musings only.

 

[WaxLyrical]

Obviously we don’t know her financial situation when she bought the house but a deposit possibly from mum and dad and decent interest rates coupled with her practically doing every shifts possible the house is not a massive stretch at all for her. She could of lived there without doing anything to it and made a profit when she sold it.
She just needed to get the initial foot on the ladder.
My musings only.

Also, she was only mid 20s so probably took a 35-40 year mortgage.

 

[GoodDayToYouSir]

Obviously we don’t know her financial situation when she bought the house but a deposit possibly from mum and dad and decent interest rates coupled with her practically doing every shifts possible the house is not a massive stretch at all for her. She could of lived there without doing anything to it and made a profit when she sold it.
She just needed to get the initial foot on the ladder.
My musings only.

Agreed . Monthly mortgage payments are often cheaper than monthly rent. You just need the deposit to get onto the ladder.

And presumably the rent she was paying (if any) when she lived in hospital accommodation was cheaper than on the private rental market, so she could have saved a good chunk of her salary to build up a deposit.

 

[la patrick777]

Yea, I suppose, she must have had a good deposit though, to get that size of a mortgage by her self, 3 x her salary??

Anyway, I reckon she is a hoarder and she (despite her knowing it to be wrong) has kept all of her handover sheets.

I just can't get my head around why she would just start harming babies.

 

[esther43]

Yea, I suppose, she must have had a good deposit though, to get that size of a mortgage by her self, 3 x her salary??

Anyway, I reckon she is a hoarder and she (despite her knowing it to be wrong) has kept all of her handover sheets.

I just can't get my head around why she would just start harming babies.

But equally hard to imagine is what could be gained from falsely accusing an NHS nurse?

 

[Charlot123]

Agree, she was ambitious and organised. Something very strange about hanging on to those handover notes and people forget how weird keeping them under her bed is. Especially when she had another room dedicated to 'household maintenance'
She ferried these notes back and fourth, she stored some and took others two and fro.
She may have wanted to access them whilst in the work place as well as at home. imo

Organized people might still have attention-deficit. The amount of paperwork in the hospitals is insurmountable. It should have been computerized by 2015, but computerization takes money. So the sheets are not a clue. IMHO. It is LL in the hospital, the rest might be suspicious or not depending on the people. The true problem is, there is nothing of LL on camera.

 

[Sweeper2000]

Doesnt really need to be a false accusation could simply be a incorrect diagnosis based on incomplete data. Remember the medical evidence that says the diagnosis is correct is more or less non existent. They haven’t proven in any case that that which is alleged happened at all. The nearest thing to hard evidence of AE is the globules found by dr marnerides for baby A. I think the nearest thing to hard evidence of excessive and forced feeding is the projectile vomiting. In terms of evidence of physical assault is the doctors opinions on what is most likely to have caused it.
however we the same as the jury are here to arrive at conclusions based on what is presented by the prosecution or the defence.

 

[JamesMcGillEsquire]

Agree, she was ambitious and organised. Something very strange about hanging on to those handover notes and people forget how weird keeping them under her bed is. Especially when she had another room dedicated to 'household maintenance'
She ferried these notes back and fourth, she stored some and took others two and fro.
She may have wanted to access them whilst in the work place as well as at home. imo

Not sure it has been suggested the notes were ferried back and forth to the hospital, if that is what you are hinting at.

Taken to a different house, yes. But just because they were all discovered, lumped together in what has been labelled a "work bag" means nothing in terms of where the notes may have journeyed.

JMO

 

[Xanadu62]

Doesnt really need to be a false accusation could simply be a incorrect diagnosis based on incomplete data. Remember the medical evidence that says the diagnosis is correct is more or less non existent. They haven’t proven in any case that that which is alleged happened at all. The nearest thing to hard evidence of AE is the globules found by dr marnerides for baby A. I think the nearest thing to hard evidence of excessive and forced feeding is the projectile vomiting. In terms of evidence of physical assault is the doctors opinions on what is most likely to have caused it.
however we the same as the jury are here to arrive at conclusions based on what is presented by the prosecution or the defence.

You mean this as your own opinion of course.

I think multiple medical experts have testified their belief deliberate harm was done. Whether you choose to believe them or not is up to you. But to state with such confidence they haven't proven anything is just incorrect. They have. CPS wouldn't have been able to bring this to trial if the expert evidence did not meet the threshold for prosecution.

MOO.

 

[Anxala]

I don't think we know what her real goals in life were. She probably didn't even know. But that house didn't necessarily explain to us what they were.

It could have been a financial investment more than anything else. We don't really know. JMO

Agree. My basic take is just her wanting to get on the property ladder, likely encouraged by her parents and likely imo helped by them with a decent deposit. Renting is not cheap, ultimately money down the drain. Also, a 3-bed house is also a 2-bed rental opportunity for her, should she have wanted, down the line, help covering the mortgage. To me it seems such a practical and sensible financial move for her, nothing more, nothing less.

 

[Jazmania]

Remember the medical evidence that says the diagnosis is correct is more or less non existent.

Um, where have you been for the last 6 months of the trial? We have heard a substantial amount of medical evidence that supports the allegations.

 

[Tortoise]

Doesnt really need to be a false accusation could simply be a incorrect diagnosis based on incomplete data. Remember the medical evidence that says the diagnosis is correct is more or less non existent. They haven’t proven in any case that that which is alleged happened at all. The nearest thing to hard evidence of AE is the globules found by dr marnerides for baby A. I think the nearest thing to hard evidence of excessive and forced feeding is the projectile vomiting. In terms of evidence of physical assault is the doctors opinions on what is most likely to have caused it.
however we the same as the jury are here to arrive at conclusions based on what is presented by the prosecution or the defence.

Again, this misrepresents the evidence.

Dr Marnerides also found air around the tip of the catheter in baby D.

Professor Arthurs made findings of a line of gas in front of the spine, described as the main highway of the circulation, in babies A and D.

More milk came out of baby G than her feed, with ++air, and it wasn't just in vomit, it was aspirated after she continued to vomit. There was sufficient distension to cause her to not be able to breathe and she suffered brain damage. That is evidence of force feeding.

There is plenty more medical evidence to back up the findings of the experts for all the babies, or they would not have been able to arrive at the conclusions they did.

 

[Sweeper2000]

Has anyone heard anyone say that AE, forced feeding, or any other evidence is without a doubt due to what is alleged? No not once has it been proven without a doubt that what is alleged is true. Dr marnerides it’s not what is possible it is what is most likely. Works both ways.

in other posts I have said the med evidence is strong.

 

[Tortoise]

Has anyone heard anyone say that AE, forced feeding, or any other evidence is without a doubt due to what is alleged? No not once has it been proven without a doubt that what is alleged is true. Dr marnerides it’s not what is possible it is what is most likely. Works both ways.

in other posts I have said the med evidence is strong.

Saying the allegations haven't been proven, which is obvious because the jury hasn't given a verdict yet, is not the same as saying the "medical evidence is more or less non-existent".

I've quoted some of the medical evidence you've ignored.

What's the reasoning behind posts that say the complete opposite?

 

[Tia218]

I was a UK RN, hand over notes were just papers where we wrote down a link to the child's bed and pertiniant abreviations, if they had an IV, needed special feeding, were going to surgery etc.
They went in the trash before we left for home, or until the next days shift if we did a quick handover, not something we would keep, not ever. They weren't formal paperwork, just... for example, bed#3 , JD, surgery 2pm list, NIl by mouth etc., new admission. Fever, IV pump,

If she kept some it suggests to me, and probably other NHS nurses that something of relevance happened in her mind. <modsnip: sub judice>

 

[Sweeper2000]

Poor wording on my part. Scooze me. Had also no differvent from others had a temporary misplacement of some medical evidence. I meant conclusive medical evidence, there isn’t a single bit that is only and conclusively related to what is alleged. Unless I have missed it.

I don’t REM remember what was said about the tip of the catheter, any pointers?

looking back now very poor wording in that first post.

the first two stand though imo. Could be an incorrect diagnoasis based on incomplete data.

 

[JosieJo]

Has anyone heard anyone say that AE, forced feeding, or any other evidence is without a doubt due to what is alleged? No not once has it been proven without a doubt that what is alleged is true. Dr marnerides it’s not what is possible it is what is most likely. Works both ways.

in other posts I have said the med evidence is strong.

The majority of babies the experts have clearly stated their cause of death or reasons for collapse...have you any examples where they have used the words such as "I'm not sure but I think "... or it "maybe" this etc

 

[Sweeper2000]

The majority of babies the experts have clearly stated their cause of death or reasons for collapse...have you any examples where they have used the words such as "I'm not sure but I think "... or it "maybe" this etc

Yeh some but couldn’t give dates or cases. Dr bohin “fleetingly rare” for child e I think, “in the absence of any other pathological pathway” “gas can gather post mortem” there are others, they haven’t said “this is the only possible explanation”.