UK - Nurse Lucy Letby, Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #24

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The lab actually telephoned the hospital to alert them to the insulin results because they were so out of the ordinary. The doctor who took the call didn’t do anything with that information.
Yes that was the case for baby L.

With baby F the testimony was that the test couldn't be replicated -

"The doctor said those readings would be repeated, but as Child F's blood sugar levels had returned to normal by the time the test results came back several days later, there would be "no way" to repeat the test and expect similar results.

10:46am

The doctor tells the court that Child F had received 'rapid acting insulin' on July 31, but the effect of that insulin would have "long gone" by the time the hypoglycaemia episode was recorded on August 5.

10:47am

The clinical note added 'as now well and sugars stable, for no further [investigations].
"If hypoglycaemia again at any point for repeat screen."
The doctor says if Child F had any further episodes of low blood sugar, then the blood test would be carried out again.

10:50am

The prosecution ask if anything was done with this data.
The doctor says it was looked to see if anyone else at the time was prescribed insulin in the whole neonatal unit, for a possible 'accidental administration', but there were no other babies at that time. No further action was taken."

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Thursday, November 24
 
2:17pm

At 1.06am, Child I was crying again, the court hears.
Letby recalls Child I was crying, but cannot recall being there by the cotside first. She accepts she was in the nursery.
Mr Johnson asks if Ashleigh Hudson was called over by Letby.
LL: "She might have been in the nursery when I called her, I couldn't say."
Letby adds she could have "come in" [as her defence statement says] from the other part of the nursery.
Letby says she had her hands in the incubator, "trying to settle [Child I]."
LL: "My assessment of [Child I] at that time was she was hungry and rooting."
NJ: "You had pumped her full of air?
LL: "No."
NJ: "You were doing your best to kill her?"
LL: "No."

2:18pm

Letby: "I have never injected air into any baby."

 
16m ago14:05

Letby accused of changing the time of medical records the night child died​

Child I deteriorated just before midnight, at 11.57pm. Letby is now being asked what she was doing in the lead-up to that collapse.
The baby Letby was assigned to care for was transferred to Royal Stoke University Hospital during the night shift of 22-23 October. (He is not a baby she is accused of harming).
The court is shown a text Letby sent to a colleague at the start of the shift: 'Oh that's fantastic. Unit nice. Transport on way to take my baby back to stoke. Only 8 babies. Off duty not out.'
This transfer, Letby says, would not have been a five-minute job and would have required a handover with the transport team and speaking to the family.
"I am going to suggest you were dealing with [the other baby] at 11pm," Mr Johnson says.
"Do you remember falsifying a recording relating to [the other baby]?"
Letby refutes this.
The court is then shown records relating to the baby in Letby's care. A close-up image of a medical note shows this baby being given a dextrose infusion at 00.00 (midnight), prior to the transfer.
But, the prosecution says, the four has been changed from a three, and the actual time this took place was 23.00 (11pm). They are accusing Letby of changing the notes to give herself an alibi in the lead-up to Child I's collapse.
"No I would not have changed a record, that was obviously written in error," Letby says. She says the note would have been signed off by her colleague.
The prosecution says she could have changed the time after it was signed.

6m ago14:15

'I don't remember this baby without the notes' - Court shown 'falsified' paperwork​

Nick Johnson, the prosecution barrister, asks Letby if she remembers saying she had "no recollection" of Child I, other than what appeared in the notes.
"I don't remember this baby without the notes," Letby agrees.
Letby's colleague said before Child I collapsed she had "been very unsettled" and made a sound she had never heard before.
Her colleague described this as a "loud, relentless,s almost constant with no fluctuation, cry" that was "very different to a hunger cry".
"This is another case of you gravitating to nursery one when you were in other less acute nurseries," Mr Johnson asks.
Letby refutes this was deliberate and says one of the three members of staff "would have had to assist".
She was involved in giving Child I medication - something she says she cannot remember but is backed up by the nursing notes.
The court is then shown more nursing notes, where the times have clearly been changed - with digits overwritten.
Mr Johnson says there were "three different mistakes in the paperwork in 25 minutes".
"Yes, potentially yes," Letby says.
"Two different children," Mr Johnson says.
"Yes," says Letby.
Mr Johnson then asks "how do those sorts of mistakes happen?"
"When there is a lot going on in the unit we may have written down the wrong time," Letby says.
"We, or you?" Mr Johnson asks.
Letby says it wouldn't have been just her responsible.
Mr Johnson says Letby changed the paperwork to "put some time between yourself and serious events" involving the infant.

 
Now14:25

Letby had her 'hands in infant's incubator'​

At 1.06am, Child I began crying again.
"I do remember being in the nursery and she was crying," Letby says. She then called for her colleague, according to her previous defence statement.
Mr Johnson says this indicates Letby was first in the room, and alone with the infant.
But Letby says this could have meant she called her colleague over from the other side of the room.
Mr Johnson disputes this, saying Letby's defence statement clearly states the colleague "came into" the room.
"You were in there at a time when Child I was crying relentlessly, and nobody else was there," says Mr Johnson.
"Potentially yes," she says.
Her colleague previously told the court when she entered the room, Letby "had her hands in the incubator".
"I do recall trying to settle Child I," Letby says.
Letby is accused of injecting the infant's circulation with air. Despite the best efforts of the doctors, Child I died later on during that shift.

 
I put the dates of the poisonings but the results that came back were not interpreted possibly due to the naivety of the new SHO’s.

Rotation dates were 5th Aug 15 and 6th Apr 16.

I recall Dr Brearey saying he was unaware that 2 babies had returned blood results which showed abnormally high insulin levels and the SHO‘s (if they were newly rotated) didn’t know the significance of the results.

quoting my own post to add link as it was Dr Gibbs who mentioned junior doctors hence my “Black Wednesday” comments.

Later Dr John Gibbs, the lead paediatrician on the unit at the time, told the court blood tests carried out on Baby L confirmed he had been 'given insulin that he should not have received'.

He added: 'I was not thinking at the time that someone might have administered insulin. The results showed that, but unfortunately the junior doctors who read them didn't realise the significance'.

 
2:25pm

NJ: "Do you remember interrupting [Child I]'s mother?"
LL: "No."
Mr Johnson says Child I's mother, in agreed evidence, recalled Letby was "smiling" and had talked about how Child I had been going on about 'enjoying' her bath. Child I had been bathed as part of the bereavement process following her passing.
NJ: "Why did you say that?"
LL: "It's trying to, in that awful situation - it wasn't meant with any malice. We still talk to them and treat them as if they were alive. It wasn't joking or...malice, it was trying to reflect on a happier memory."
NJ: "How can you say such things?"
LL: "She had her first bath when she was alive and that was what she had enjoyed, not the one when she had passed away."
NJ: "How do you know it was her first bath?"
LL: "Because I was there, we took photographs, it was a big occasion."
Mr Johnson asks how many baths Child I had in Arrowe Park - Letby says she cannot say.
NJ: "You were getting a thrill out of the grief and despair in that room, weren't you?
LL: "Absolutely not."

 
1m ago14:27

Letby 'smiling' in the wake of Child I's death​

Letby is accused of "interrupting" Child I's parents as they bathed their dead daughter.
The mother previously said: 'Lucy came back in. She was smiling and kept going on about how she was present at Child I's first bath and how much she loved it.'
The ex-nurse said it "wasn't meant with any malice" but wanted to refer to a positive memory. She says it is normal practice to treat the infant as though she was still alive.
"Do you understand the difference between life and death?"
"Yes," Letby says.
She is accused of getting a "thrill" out of the grief and despair in the room.
"Absolutely not, no," Letby says.
Three weeks later, Letby sent a sympathy card to Child I's - taking a picture of it on her phone before she posted it.

1m ago14:27

Court adjourned​

The court is now taking a 20-minute break.
It will resume at 2.45pm.

 
Judith Moritz

@JudithMoritz
·
6m

Nick Johnson KC: "You’d pumped baby I full of air hadn’t you?" Lucy Letby: "No" NJKC: "That’s why she was so distressed" LL: "No" NJKC: "Because you were doing your best to kill her" LL: "No"

Judith Moritz

@JudithMoritz
·
3m

Earlier in the trial baby I's mum recalled Lucy Letby coming into the room when she and her husband were bathing the little girl after she'd died. She said the nurse was smiling and 'kept going on about how she was present at (her) first bath and how much she’d loved it'
 
LL seems to have a habit of remembering all the things that are innocuous about these events, yet whenever something comes up that could paint her in a bad light she can’t recall it. It’s weird to me that you can remember insignificant details but not the ones that truly matter. JMHO.
 
Judith Moritz

@JudithMoritz
·
6m

Nick Johnson asks Lucy Letby why she made those comments. She replies "I was trying in that awful situation to have a little bit of normality. I was referring to a positive memory. Baby I had enjoyed her first bath. It wasn’t meant with any malice"

Judith Moritz

@JudithMoritz
·
4m

Lucy Letby: "You’d still talk to babies as though they were alive" Nick Jonson KC: "Do you understand the difference between life and death? Lucy Letby: "Yes"

Judith Moritz

@JudithMoritz
·
4m

Nick Johnson KC: "You were getting a thrill out of the grief and despair that you were watching in that room weren’t you?" Lucy Letby: "Absolutely not"
 
16m ago14:05

Letby accused of changing the time of medical records the night child died​

Child I deteriorated just before midnight, at 11.57pm. Letby is now being asked what she was doing in the lead-up to that collapse.
The baby Letby was assigned to care for was transferred to Royal Stoke University Hospital during the night shift of 22-23 October. (He is not a baby she is accused of harming).
The court is shown a text Letby sent to a colleague at the start of the shift: 'Oh that's fantastic. Unit nice. Transport on way to take my baby back to stoke. Only 8 babies. Off duty not out.'
This transfer, Letby says, would not have been a five-minute job and would have required a handover with the transport team and speaking to the family.
"I am going to suggest you were dealing with [the other baby] at 11pm," Mr Johnson says.
"Do you remember falsifying a recording relating to [the other baby]?"
Letby refutes this.
The court is then shown records relating to the baby in Letby's care. A close-up image of a medical note shows this baby being given a dextrose infusion at 00.00 (midnight), prior to the transfer.
But, the prosecution says, the four has been changed from a three, and the actual time this took place was 23.00 (11pm). They are accusing Letby of changing the notes to give herself an alibi in the lead-up to Child I's collapse.
"No I would not have changed a record, that was obviously written in error," Letby says. She says the note would have been signed off by her colleague.
The prosecution says she could have changed the time after it was signed.

6m ago14:15

'I don't remember this baby without the notes' - Court shown 'falsified' paperwork​

Nick Johnson, the prosecution barrister, asks Letby if she remembers saying she had "no recollection" of Child I, other than what appeared in the notes.
"I don't remember this baby without the notes," Letby agrees.
Letby's colleague said before Child I collapsed she had "been very unsettled" and made a sound she had never heard before.
Her colleague described this as a "loud, relentless,s almost constant with no fluctuation, cry" that was "very different to a hunger cry".
"This is another case of you gravitating to nursery one when you were in other less acute nurseries," Mr Johnson asks.
Letby refutes this was deliberate and says one of the three members of staff "would have had to assist".
She was involved in giving Child I medication - something she says she cannot remember but is backed up by the nursing notes.
The court is then shown more nursing notes, where the times have clearly been changed - with digits overwritten.
Mr Johnson says there were "three different mistakes in the paperwork in 25 minutes".
"Yes, potentially yes," Letby says.
"Two different children," Mr Johnson says.
"Yes," says Letby.
Mr Johnson then asks "how do those sorts of mistakes happen?"
"When there is a lot going on in the unit we may have written down the wrong time," Letby says.
"We, or you?" Mr Johnson asks.
Letby says it wouldn't have been just her responsible.
Mr Johnson says Letby changed the paperwork to "put some time between yourself and serious events" involving the infant.

16m ago14:05

Letby accused of changing the time of medical records the night child died​

Child I deteriorated just before midnight, at 11.57pm. Letby is now being asked what she was doing in the lead-up to that collapse.
The baby Letby was assigned to care for was transferred to Royal Stoke University Hospital during the night shift of 22-23 October. (He is not a baby she is accused of harming).
The court is shown a text Letby sent to a colleague at the start of the shift: 'Oh that's fantastic. Unit nice. Transport on way to take my baby back to stoke. Only 8 babies. Off duty not out.'
This transfer, Letby says, would not have been a five-minute job and would have required a handover with the transport team and speaking to the family.
"I am going to suggest you were dealing with [the other baby] at 11pm," Mr Johnson says.
"Do you remember falsifying a recording relating to [the other baby]?"
Letby refutes this.
The court is then shown records relating to the baby in Letby's care. A close-up image of a medical note shows this baby being given a dextrose infusion at 00.00 (midnight), prior to the transfer.
But, the prosecution says, the four has been changed from a three, and the actual time this took place was 23.00 (11pm). They are accusing Letby of changing the notes to give herself an alibi in the lead-up to Child I's collapse.
"No I would not have changed a record, that was obviously written in error," Letby says. She says the note would have been signed off by her colleague.
The prosecution says she could have changed the time after it was signed.

6m ago14:15

'I don't remember this baby without the notes' - Court shown 'falsified' paperwork​

Nick Johnson, the prosecution barrister, asks Letby if she remembers saying she had "no recollection" of Child I, other than what appeared in the notes.
"I don't remember this baby without the notes," Letby agrees.
Letby's colleague said before Child I collapsed she had "been very unsettled" and made a sound she had never heard before.
Her colleague described this as a "loud, relentless,s almost constant with no fluctuation, cry" that was "very different to a hunger cry".
"This is another case of you gravitating to nursery one when you were in other less acute nurseries," Mr Johnson asks.
Letby refutes this was deliberate and says one of the three members of staff "would have had to assist".
She was involved in giving Child I medication - something she says she cannot remember but is backed up by the nursing notes.
The court is then shown more nursing notes, where the times have clearly been changed - with digits overwritten.
Mr Johnson says there were "three different mistakes in the paperwork in 25 minutes".
"Yes, potentially yes," Letby says.
"Two different children," Mr Johnson says.
"Yes," says Letby.
Mr Johnson then asks "how do those sorts of mistakes happen?"
"When there is a lot going on in the unit we may have written down the wrong time," Letby says.
"We, or you?" Mr Johnson asks.
Letby says it wouldn't have been just her responsible.
Mr Johnson says Letby changed the paperwork to "put some time between yourself and serious events" involving the infant.

Trying to get my head around what the prosecution are alleging happened here.

So nurse Hudson is looking after child I and Letby is allocated babies elsewhere, including a transfer baby..

10.00pm: Dr Chang writes a note saying the transfer baby is fit for transfer

10.50pm Letby's note for transfer baby was written. It included a documentation of a longline infusion with a 10% dextrose fluid. Letby has co-signed the document.

10.57pm: Note re child I by Ashleigh Hudson, who is with child I.
'Longline removed due to constant occlusions; neonatal nurse Lucy Letby unable to flush, so Paeds Reg Rachel Chang informed.' -

11.00pm: letby falsifies a note relating to the transfer baby from 11.00 to 12.00. she has now placed herself 'away from child I'
But nurse Hudson has documented her presence.

11.57 pm: Child I collapses



Seems they are suggesting that Letby tried to place herself as 'with the transfer baby at 11.00'
But then, whilst she writes up notes on the transfer the baby in another room, Ashleigh Hudson is writing a note from minutes before, saying LL was there and present.
When she LL returns to the scene of child I, it's all going off.
Letby then realises two things...
1. The AE is non fatal
2. Ashleigh Hudson has noted her as being present.
She then goes back to the transfer babies notes, crossing out 11.00 and putting 12 instead because she knows that she can't be
In two places at once?
 
'I don't remember this baby without the notes' - Court shown 'falsified' paperwork
Trying to get my head around what the prosecution are alleging happened here.

So nurse Hudson is looking after child I and Letby is allocated babies elsewhere, including a transfer baby..

10.00pm: Dr Chang writes a note saying the transfer baby is fit for transfer

10.50pm Letby's note for transfer baby was written. It included a documentation of a longline infusion with a 10% dextrose fluid. Letby has co-signed the document.

10.57pm: Note re child I by Ashleigh Hudson, who is with child I.
'Longline removed due to constant occlusions; neonatal nurse Lucy Letby unable to flush, so Paeds Reg Rachel Chang informed.' -

11.00pm: letby falsifies a note relating to the transfer baby from 11.00 to 12.00. she has now placed herself 'away from child I'
But nurse Hudson has documented her presence.

11.57 pm: Child I collapses



Seems they are suggesting that Letby tried to place herself as 'with the transfer baby at 11.00'
But then, whilst she writes up notes on the transfer the baby in another room, Ashleigh Hudson is writing a note from minutes before, saying LL was there and present.
When she LL returns to the scene of child I, it's all going off.
Letby then realises two things...
1. The AE is non fatal
2. Ashleigh Hudson has noted her as being present.
She then goes back to the transfer babies notes, crossing out 11.00 and putting 12 instead because she knows that she can't be
In two places at once?
 
What a ridiculous question to ask, do you know the difference between life and death. And all this did you kill them, no, did you enjoy it, what is the purpose of this kind of questioning? Is someone expected to say no I didn’t kill them but yes I enjoyed it?
 
Trying to get my head around what the prosecution are alleging happened here.

So nurse Hudson is looking after child I and Letby is allocated babies elsewhere, including a transfer baby..

10.00pm: Dr Chang writes a note saying the transfer baby is fit for transfer

10.50pm Letby's note for transfer baby was written. It included a documentation of a longline infusion with a 10% dextrose fluid. Letby has co-signed the document.

10.57pm: Note re child I by Ashleigh Hudson, who is with child I.
'Longline removed due to constant occlusions; neonatal nurse Lucy Letby unable to flush, so Paeds Reg Rachel Chang informed.' -

11.00pm: letby falsifies a note relating to the transfer baby from 11.00 to 12.00. she has now placed herself 'away from child I'
But nurse Hudson has documented her presence.

11.57 pm: Child I collapses



Seems they are suggesting that Letby tried to place herself as 'with the transfer baby at 11.00'
But then, whilst she writes up notes on the transfer the baby in another room, Ashleigh Hudson is writing a note from minutes before, saying LL was there and present.
When she LL returns to the scene of child I, it's all going off.
Letby then realises two things...
1. The AE is non fatal
2. Ashleigh Hudson has noted her as being present.
She then goes back to the transfer babies notes, crossing out 11.00 and putting 12 instead because she knows that she can't be
In two places at once?
Yep, distancing herself from the collapse by saying she was with transfer baby an hour later than she was. (Allegedly).
 
What a ridiculous question to ask, do you know the difference between life and death. And all this did you kill them, no, did you enjoy it, what is the purpose of this kind of questioning? Is someone expected to say no I didn’t kill them but yes I enjoyed it?

It seems to be his style, goading and baiting. I really don't understand his need to do this. It's not as if it's achieving anything useful. Maybe he thinks it will impress the jury?
 
It seems to be his style, goading and baiting. I really don't understand his need to do this. It's not as if it's achieving anything useful. Maybe he thinks it will impress the jury?
I think he's trying to interrupt her concentration, break it up a bit so she doesn't get the opportunity to focus on dates so much. He doesn't want it to be methodical or predictable.
He also 'task sets' to throw her off track. Saying things like 'we'll get to that' so she goes away and stews on it.
I guess he also has to keep the jury focused on the nature of the alleged offences, with so many cases, it's easy for them to loose track if he doesn't point out every now and then what the allegation is.
 
1m ago14:27

Letby 'smiling' in the wake of Child I's death​

Letby is accused of "interrupting" Child I's parents as they bathed their dead daughter.
The mother previously said: 'Lucy came back in. She was smiling and kept going on about how she was present at Child I's first bath and how much she loved it.'
The ex-nurse said it "wasn't meant with any malice" but wanted to refer to a positive memory. She says it is normal practice to treat the infant as though she was still alive.
"Do you understand the difference between life and death?"
"Yes," Letby says.
She is accused of getting a "thrill" out of the grief and despair in the room.
"Absolutely not, no," Letby says.
Three weeks later, Letby sent a sympathy card to Child I's - taking a picture of it on her phone before she posted it.

1m ago14:27

Court adjourned​

The court is now taking a 20-minute break.
It will resume at 2.45pm.

This questioning isn’t landing for the prosecution IMO.

Thank God, I’ve never lost a child , but I have been in a hospital in the immediate aftermath of close family members dying , and the nurses have in every instance talked to us about happy times when the person was alive and in the hospital (such as how they were such a “character “ and made the nurses laugh ).

And I’ve also read several doctors’ memoirs where they talk to a deceased person as if they were still alive. One such example is in “ With the end in mind” by Kathryn Mannix , who was a palliative care doctor for many years (if you haven’t read it, I highly recommend it as it is one of the standout books in the genre, which will simultaneously break your heart and lift your spirit).

In one passage, Dr Kathryn has a cancer patient die and the patient is sent for an autopsy. Dr Kathryn goes along to the autopsy and takes the ward sister with her (it is her first time seeing a post-mortem). The deceased is on the table with her abdomen completely cut open and Dr Kathryn enters the room, goes up to the table and says “hello [patient name ], I’ve brought ward sister along with me to find out what all the trouble was causing you pain in your ribs.”

It might sound shocking, but talking about / to a dead person as if they were still there does not raise alarm bells for me.
 
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