UK - Nurse Lucy Letby, Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #25

[esther43]

So they're reckoning the jury's going out on about Monday the third of July?

So that will be two weeks for the prosectution and an hour for the defence then.

 

[WaxLyrical]

Re the second bedroom, I previously posted the Zoopla from 2016, and also the listing from 2019 when Letby sold it. The owl bedroom was clearly a nursery. Also looks like she bought/kept a wardrobe from the previous owners.

Zoopla 2016: https://www.zoopla.co.uk/property-history/41-westbourne-road/chester/ch1-5ba/36168873/

Rightmove 2019: House Price History

 

[May72031]

Re: sentencing.

I believe those convicted should have to attend the sentencing. In handcuffs, if necessary. Also, I would prefer to watch the reaction of the convicted, rather than the judge.

 

[notsure]

So that will be two weeks for the prosectution and an hour for the defence then.

I can't remember how long the defence took to present their case at the beginning of the trial. It all seems so long ago, but it did seem to go on for ages.

 

[Dotta]

Re the Jury's deliberations

I guess some time will be needed to choose a leader

Then organize all notes, documents in some kind of order

Time for tea/coffee/snacks

Talking, getting to know one another better

General voting
Filling the forms the Judge provided, discussion

And time consuming writing the protocol at the end.

I have never been a Juror but I am used to sitting during the exams at school

JMO

 

[esther43]

I can't remember how long the defence took to present their case at the beginning of the trial. It all seems so long ago, but it did seem to go on for ages.

All the things he laid out at the beginning are such empty now... The great big NOTHING burger as someone on here coined it...

 

[Dotta]

All the things he laid out at the beginning are such empty now... The great big NOTHING burger as someone on here coined it...

Nothing burger and a plumber
What a Duo!

 

[esther43]

Nothing burger and a plumber
What a Duo!

Pied Piper letby with her handover sheets with little legs, followed by the mop, bucket and plumber and last in the parade Ventress and Dr choc and a trail of chocolate buttons... all on their way to see LL's great big NOTHING burger...

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Re: sentencing.

I believe those convicted should have to attend the sentencing. In handcuffs, if necessary. Also, I would prefer to watch the reaction of the convicted, rather than the judge.

Agree. It might actually be helpful for criminals to see that they do stand judged by a jury of their peers and with an audience looking on, might put them off re-offending. If they're the sort who are going to get out again that is.

 

[Sundial]

Re the second bedroom, I previously posted the Zoopla from 2016, and also the listing from 2019 when Letby sold it. The owl bedroom was clearly a nursery. Also looks like she bought/kept a wardrobe from the previous owners.

Zoopla 2016: https://www.zoopla.co.uk/property-history/41-westbourne-road/chester/ch1-5ba/36168873/

Rightmove 2019: House Price History

Thank you for sharing this, I must have missed your previous post, I can’t recalling seeing this, there’s been so many threads and couldn’t find the ad that’s been mentioned. Appreciated.

That said; there’s nothing to say she didn’t know the previous owner and bought it off them or had some kind of link with that house prior to buying it.

Equally on the other hand, I must also add the house and its location could be totally unrelated. IF guilty, the house might have absolutely nothing to do with anything. Would anyone ever know for sure, doubtful. Interesting discussions though.

JMO

 

[Sundial]

Pied Piper letby with her handover sheets with little legs, followed by the mop, bucket and plumber and last in the parade Ventress and Dr choc and a trail of chocolate buttons... all on their way to see LL's great big NOTHING burger...

You forgot the shredder

 

[Sillybilly]

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[esther43]

You forgot the shredder

Did I mention the people in the town were chanting 'shredder, shredder' to the jaws theme tune?

 

[Sweeper2000]

I meant confident and well practised! I hope it hasn't come across as 'skilled' *face palm

LOL If there were to be such a thing, I reckon Harold Shipman has got to be it. He sadly wiped out hundreds of his patients in plain sight and nobody really noticed. Furthermore, when he was first arrested people in his local area protested against the injustice.

h Shipman would get five gold stickers and a golden eagle.

 

[Marantz4250b]

In the case of gang land killers, I can see not wanting to turn up in court could be because they're afraid of being shot at or something?

Also, I suppose if someone knew they're going down for decades, maybe they think 'what's the point?' / laziness, or maybe it's a way of wrestling back some control and power and evading giving people the chance to see your face as you're sentenced.

If it were me, I'd probably be glad of a day out of prison and curious to hear what the judge has to say even though it's not going to be very palatable.

This isn't about not showing up at court. It's about not being willing to attend your sentencing, having been in court the whole trial and, in some cases, even having given evidence in your defence.

Sorry, but if you have been found guilty then your rights a legally forfeited. You do NOT get to choose where you go and do not go. You go where you are told. If the court wants you to attend your sentencing then they should be allowed to order that. It seems that, at present, they can not. That is ridiculous.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

This isn't about not showing up at court. It's about not being willing to attend your sentencing, having been in court the whole trial and, in some cases, even having given evidence in your defence.

Sorry, but if you have been found guilty then your rights a legally forfeited. You do NOT get to choose where you go and do not go. You go where you are told. If the court wants you to attend your sentencing then they should be allowed to order that. It seems that, at present, they can not. That is ridiculous.

I understood that. I agree. I still think that in the case of a gangland killer it could be to avoid getting attacked by rivals is fairly 'reasonable'. I imagine the prison service and courts might feel the same way for the sake of their own personal safety JMO.

 

[Marantz4250b]

To tell the truth I cannot imagine somebody being dragged for the verdict or victims' statements if a person doesn't want to.

I agree it shows cowardice, but, on the other hand, imagine if a criminal full of rage started behaving in a disrespectful way causing commotion or shouting rudely at the victims' families.

Or listening smiling/laughing.

We are talking about people with no morals or conscience.

JMO

On the bolded points:

1) I can!

2) Tazers and other "persuasive" methods exist

3) See point 2

As you rightly say, we are dealing with people with no morals or conscience. The lack of these things has led to their convictions. Those convictions have led to the lawful removal of their liberties. If the state requires them to go to a certain place at a certain time then they should be made to go using whatever force is required.

I see absolutely no problem in any of that. Going up from the cells in the court after conviction to face their sentence is no different at all to going from one prison to another as part of their sentence. They do not get the choice in that and will be moved by force if necessary. Why is there a difference in being forced to attend their sentencing? There is none.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

I guess it saves the courts and prison service money if a prisoner doesn't want to be escorted to court for their sentencing and since they're already detained, the argument is based on cost to the tax payer as much as someone's 'right' to not appear?

 

[Dotta]

On the bolded points:

1) I can!

2) Tazers and other "persuasive" methods exist

3) See point 2

As you rightly say, we are dealing with people with no morals or conscience. The lack of these things has led to their convictions. Those convictions have led to the lawful removal of their liberties. If the state requires them to go to a certain place at a certain time then they should be made to go using whatever force is required.

I see absolutely no problem in any of that. Going up from the cells in the court after conviction to face their sentence is no different at all to going from one prison to another as part of their sentence. They do not get the choice in that and will be moved by force if necessary. Why is there a difference in being forced to attend their sentencing? There is none.

So why is it allowed for them to skip it?
I have no idea.
But it happened in UK trials I followed on WB.
1. Sabina N murderer
2. Olivia PK murderer

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

So why is it allowed for them to skip it?
I have no idea.
But it happened in UK trials I followed on WB.
1. Sabina N murderer
2. Olivia PK murderer

I imagine because a person literally doesn't *need* to be there in front of the judge and jury answering to questions.

As long as they're detained in prison then the cost of transporting them, guarding them, and the risk of disruption, escape, attack is always there, then for everyone's sake if the defendant stays in prison it's a lot easier and far cheaper to the tax payer. Also some, many, defendants are probably unwell for one reason or another and demotivated, heavily medicated, or don't even care if they're repeat offenders or know they're getting a life sentence.

For the defendant, it's probably more a case of arguing for one's right to be present in court at the time of sentencing. And hoping to be found not guilty. JMO