UK - Nurse Lucy Letby, Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #27

[Becky53]

3:42pm

Mr Myers recalls Child E's mother's statement.
He says there is no basis for what happened here to the bleed later, as Dr Harkness reviewed Child E later and found him to be 'stable'.
Mr Myers says the record of Child E's "horrendous" screaming, as recalled by Child E's mother - "cannot be like that". He says the unit would have been "full of people coming and going". He asks "how on earth" would that not raise the concerns of people nearby? He says it is "unrealistic" it can be "in the way she described".

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, June 27 - defence closing speech

The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more, is…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

 

[Tortoise]

Dan O'Donoghue

@MrDanDonoghue
·
8m


Mr Myers picks on how the prosecution described the events surrounding Child E, they said last year that his mother 'interrupted Ms Letby attacking' her son - 'that sounds pretty definite doesn't it'

Dan O'Donoghue

@MrDanDonoghue
·
6m


Mr Myers says 'that isn’t the description she gives, the evidence does not show Ms Letby attacking (Child E)…it’s a highly charged description, highly emotive'

Dan O'Donoghue

@MrDanDonoghue
·
6m


He points out that Child E's mother said she arrived on the unit, to feed her son, and heard her son screaming - when she entered the unit she saw Ms Letby standing at the nursing station

Dan O'Donoghue

@MrDanDonoghue
·
57s


Mr Myers is quoting Child E's mother's evidence from last year. He says the unit would have been "full of people coming and going" and asks how 'horrendous screaming' would that not raise concerns of people nearby? He says it is "unrealistic" the way described

 

[Tortoise]

He points out that Child E's mother said she arrived on the unit, to feed her son, and heard her son screaming - when she entered the unit she saw Ms Letby standing at the nursing station

"The twins' mum says that her son (baby E) had blood around his mouth. She says that Lucy Letby was the only person in the room with the babies but was not by the incubator - she was standing at the workstation."
https://twitter.com/JudithMoritz

"'I panicked, I was panicking, I felt like there was something wrong', she said. The mother tells the court that Ms Letby was stood at a work station between the two incubators where her sons were"
https://twitter.com/MrDanDonoghue


Is he trying to say she saw LL at the main nursing station outside in the corridor?

 

[Tortoise]

Dan O'Donoghue

@MrDanDonoghue
·
5m


He also says the initial prosecution characterisation of Child E having blood spilling from his mouth at this time was inaccurate and again quotes Child E's mothers evidence, who agreed it was not an ongoing bleed

 

[Music2022]

"The twins' mum says that her son (baby E) had blood around his mouth. She says that Lucy Letby was the only person in the room with the babies but was not by the incubator - she was standing at the workstation."
https://twitter.com/JudithMoritz

"'I panicked, I was panicking, I felt like there was something wrong', she said. The mother tells the court that Ms Letby was stood at a work station between the two incubators where her sons were"
https://twitter.com/MrDanDonoghue


Is he trying to say she saw LL at the main nursing station outside in the corridor?

I think he means she was at the desk in the room. The desk is between the incubators so both statements can be correct I guess. By the workstation but within reach of incubators?

 

[Becky53]

3:49pm

Mr Myers recalls Child E's mother's statement on the 'bleed coming out of the mouth.' A description was made around the mouth and the chin.
He says on cross-examination, it was "agreed it was not completely fresh".
He says he suggested it could have been aspirate. The mother disagreed. Mr Myers says there is no suggestion by any doctor/nurse of Child E screaming.
The neonatal schedule for Child E on August 3 is shown. He says Caroline Oakley is involved in giving medication to Child F at 9.13pm, with Child F 'being near Child E at the time'.
Mr Myers says it isn't about lying, it is up to the jury to draw "a fair conclusion". He says no-one else had seen anything that coincides with this.

3:55pm

Mr Myers refers to the phone call at 9.11pm, and the defence say they don't doubt Child E's mother was distressed at that time. The defence suggest the details from the later phone call were moved to the earlier call, something which is not accepted by either parent.
Mr Myers says Child E's mother spoke to the midwife, Susan Brooks, which was agreed evidence. The midwife notes: 'Care since 2000hrs...[Child E's mother] asked me to let her know of any contact overnight from NNU as one of the twins- had deteriorated slightly...'
Mr Myers says this is the best, and maybe only, independent guide, for the event, and if the situation was more serious, it would have been noted as such.

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, June 27 - defence closing speech

The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more, is…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

 

[Tortoise]

I think he means she was at the desk in the room. The desk is between the incubators so both statements can be correct I guess. By the workstation but within reach of incubators?

He says when she entered the unit, not the room, she saw LL by the nursing station, and it would have been full of other people coming and going. There was no one in the nursery but LL and the twins when the mum went in. He can't say if there would have been other people around at that moment, there have been no witnesses to that. I think even if he means inside the room, he is using misleading language saying "unit" and "nursing station".

 

[Becky53]

Mr Myers says Child E's mother spoke to the midwife, Susan Brooks, which was agreed evidence. The midwife notes: 'Care since 2000hrs...[Child E's mother] asked me to let her know of any contact overnight from NNU as one of the twins- had deteriorated slightly...'
Mr Myers says this is the best, and maybe only, independent guide, for the event, and if the situation was more serious, it would have been noted as such.

“Trust me I’m a nurse” springs to mind to put the mother at ease about the event.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

This all seems a bit performative and procedurally incorrect by BM.

I wonder if it's because he / they are quite sure that LL is bang to rights and she's going down so he's just saying everything that can possibly be said that represents all the arguments and excuses she's tried to make over time? Knowing that none of it holds any water, that the judge has given guidance, and the jury cannot include it for consideration - for example that he, BM, is not a medical expert or qualified to speak on some of the subjects he has mentioned?

JMO MOO, just trying to make sense of it.

 

[Tortoise]

Dan O'Donoghue
@MrDanDonoghue
·
3m


Mr Myers touches on what Dr Evans said in his expert reports regarding the collapses and death of Child E. He said in his first two reports he could not say what had caused the bleeding, in his third report he suggested the NG tube had been forced into his throat

Dan O'Donoghue
@MrDanDonoghue
·
2m


*In a memo served just weeks before the trial Dr Evans said it could have been caused by a medical tool - called an introducer. Mr Myers says this is evidence of Dr Evans 'conjuring up theories to support the allegation'

---

*my note - when he read the mother's statement about screaming and bleeding which wasn't documented by LL.

 

[Becky53]

4:00pm

Mr Myers refers to the expert witnesses' evidence.
Dr Evans and Dr Bohin referred to Dr Harkness's description of discolouration as background for 'air embolus'. He says Dr Harkness gave more detailed descriptions in police interview and in evidence than he had in clinical notes, including the 'mobility' of the colours of the discolouration.

4:06pm

He says at the time of the collapse, no-one was seen interfering with Child E, and Dr Harkness said Child E 'collapsed in front of our faces'. He asks where the attack is supposed to have happened.
Mr Myers says he is not going to go into detail of Child E's bleed after the collapse, "as it is awful".
He says Dr Evans had said, in his third report, an NG tube being forced in was the cause of the bleed. He added that was withdrawn a few weeks before the start of the trial.
Dr Evans said it was 'an option worth exploring' that a tube introducer had been used. Mr Myers says Dr Evans had taken up a role of investigator and hunting up ways to find a conviction.
Mr Myers says Child E's bleed "ran out of control and he died". He says there is no post-mortem examination, and Letby is getting the blame, and no "realistic opportunity" of air embolus.

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, June 27 - defence closing speech

The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more, is…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

 

[Tortoise]

Lucy Letby: Prosecution experts made evidence fit theory, jury told

Prosecutors performed "extraordinary contortions" to make a theory "fit", Lucy Letby's barrister says.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Music2022]

Mr Myers refers to the phone call at 9.11pm, and the defence say they don't doubt Child E's mother was distressed at that time. The defence suggest the details from the later phone call were moved to the earlier call, something which is not accepted by either parent.

So he claims the 9:11 call was just chatting about random stuff? And she informed her husband about the blood in the later call the same call he was told to come to hospital? No way. Parents wouldn’t forget that.

 

[CS2C]

No need to call experts when you can just give your own opinion passed off as fact. I am quite surprised the judge hasn't simply shut him down to be honest.

I assume people who are more informed than I am see this as fair and all above board ?

 

[Parker Knoll]

Agreed. Some pretty bold claims being made today again.
Not making any friends here.
JMO

 

[Tortoise]

Think I might boycott the rest of his speech.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

No need to call experts when you can just give your own opinion passed off as fact. I am quite surprised the judge hasn't simply shut him down to be honest.

I assume people who are more informed than I am see this as fair and all above board ?

IANAL but honestly how can these things be said in a court of law, how can they be admissible?

Is this week going to end with the judge ordering the jury to strike everything that BM has said!?

JMO

 

[Dotta]

Think I might boycott the rest of his speech.

So,
All the same on the Defence front?

I just popped in to check your comments,
I skipped reports minding my blood pressure and general mental health

Tell you what,
I believe in Collective Wisdom of the Jury

OK, see you later, I have to rush!

 

[Lincoln34]

Do we know if the prosecution is allowed a final address with court permission ? I’m surprised that there hasn’t been an objection by NJ or a break for legal argument if not.

 

[Blondiexoxo]

3:42pm

Mr Myers recalls Child E's mother's statement.
He says there is no basis for what happened here to the bleed later, as Dr Harkness reviewed Child E later and found him to be 'stable'.
Mr Myers says the record of Child E's "horrendous" screaming, as recalled by Child E's mother - "cannot be like that". He says the unit would have been "full of people coming and going". He asks "how on earth" would that not raise the concerns of people nearby? He says it is "unrealistic" it can be "in the way she described".

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, June 27 - defence closing speech

The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more, is…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

Oh wow he went there. I know he has a job to do but I find it in extremely bad taste to call a mothers harrowing final memories of her baby as ‘unrealistic’.

Personally in life there are some things that should just be left well alone, and IMO the traumatic memories of parents of babies who’ve allegedly been murdered by the nurse trusted to care for them, is one of those things. I understand that BM has to refute the prosecution however (and this is just my opinion only) if I were on a jury and a barrister told me that a grieving mother was basically exaggerating about seeing her child screaming and bleeding in the hours before their death, I think it would rub me up the wrong way. For me personally anyway IMO.

I will say no more on the matter but IMO BM knows that this event is crucial, if the jury believe baby E’s mum, then they believe that baby E was bleeding at 9pm, she was told to leave the unit by LL, the bleeding was not reported and not mentioned by LL at this time, all in all, if they believe E’s mum then that means LL is lying about this incident, which in turn could suggest she was covering something up that she didn’t, and still doesn’t, want to come to light. JMO

MOO