Dotta
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It is not nice to scare fellow posters!!!
UK - Nurse Lucy Letby, Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #27
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Diddly1
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I apologise to anyone sitting on the fence I didn’t mean to offend anyone at all. My posts was not intended to give an indication of jubilation that I want LL (if guilty) to lose control or provide high drama in the courtroom. If my post appeared to read that way, my apologies are real and genuine.
Thanks. But that wasn't NJ's point, as reported. He connected it with the fact that it highlighted the dangers of air embolus and asked if that was a coincidence. Perhaps that was unfair: anyway the judge appears not to have repeated it.
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Dotta
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It is no good to apologize left, right and centre for one's feelings and emotions.
After all, we cannot please everybody, right?
And it would be bad if we did!!!
As for me, IF she is guilty, I would like to see a mugshot.
Now,
Whom should I apologize to???
My Opinion!!!
DianaWW
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10:39am
Joanne Williams was Child K's designated nurse and left the neonatal unit at 3.47am - an hour and a half after Child K was born - to update the parents. She said she would not have left Child K if she was not stable, or had someone to look after her in her absence.
Dr Jayaram and nurse Williams were "happy" Child K was "quite stable".
Joanne Williams said in cross-examination the morphine infusion for Child K, timed at one chart for 3.30am, could have been at 3.50am.
Dr Jayaram said he was aware Letby was alone with Child K, and thought he was being "irrational", but went to check on Child K as a precaution.
Dr Ravi Jayaram said he walked in to the nursery room and saw Letby by Child K's incubator, and saw Child K's saturation levels dropping to the 80s. The monitor alarm was not going off. He said: "What's happening?" Letby said something along the lines of: "She's desaturating."
Dr Jayaram ascertained the ET Tube was not working as it should, and Child K was ventilated. He said babies usually desaturate after about 30-60 seconds, so the cause of the desaturation would have started before he went into the room.
Dr James Smith saw Dr Jayaram on the right side of the incubator as he walked in. He reintubated Child K.
The court had heard it was possible for a user to pause the monitor alarm sounds for one minute.
www.chesterstandard.co.uk
Joanne Williams was Child K's designated nurse and left the neonatal unit at 3.47am - an hour and a half after Child K was born - to update the parents. She said she would not have left Child K if she was not stable, or had someone to look after her in her absence.
Dr Jayaram and nurse Williams were "happy" Child K was "quite stable".
Joanne Williams said in cross-examination the morphine infusion for Child K, timed at one chart for 3.30am, could have been at 3.50am.
Dr Jayaram said he was aware Letby was alone with Child K, and thought he was being "irrational", but went to check on Child K as a precaution.
Dr Ravi Jayaram said he walked in to the nursery room and saw Letby by Child K's incubator, and saw Child K's saturation levels dropping to the 80s. The monitor alarm was not going off. He said: "What's happening?" Letby said something along the lines of: "She's desaturating."
Dr Jayaram ascertained the ET Tube was not working as it should, and Child K was ventilated. He said babies usually desaturate after about 30-60 seconds, so the cause of the desaturation would have started before he went into the room.
Dr James Smith saw Dr Jayaram on the right side of the incubator as he walked in. He reintubated Child K.
The court had heard it was possible for a user to pause the monitor alarm sounds for one minute.
Recap: Lucy Letby trial, July 6 - judge's summing up
The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more, is…
Were they just colleagues or were they friends too? I had made good friends where I worked and I definitely shared SMS messages with them sometimes.
DianaWW
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10:48am
Dr Jayaram was challenged about why he had not confronted Letby about her behaviour. He said it was "not appropriate" to raise concerns in medical notes. He said concerns were raised after this incident, and faith was put in senior management, and they were told it was unlikely anything was going on, and to see what happens. He said in hindsight, he wished they had bypassed management.
He could not remember the transport team note where he had written 'baby dislodged tube'. He said it was "highly unlikely" Child K had dislodged the ET Tube.
He accepted the note Child K had been sedated after the desaturation, but denied altering his account to fit the evidence. He said he had not seen the swipe data for timings.
Letby, in interview, said she could only remember Child K because of her size. She did not recall Child K's tube slipping or any collapse. She agreed she thought Joanne Williams would not have left Child K alone if Child K was not stable. She could not remember if the alarm was silent, but agreed it should have sounded if Child K was desaturating.
She thought it possible she was seeing if Child K was self-correcting.
In evidence, she said she did not have independent memory of Child K other than her being a tiny baby.
She said although she had no memory of it, she said she would have waited 10-20 seconds to see if Child K self-corrected, as that was "common practice".
Elizabeth Morgan said, in agreed evidence, it was possible for an ET Tube to be dislodged in an unsedated and active baby, and a nurse would not leave the child alone in this situation if the baby was not settled. She said it would be 'good practice' to observe the baby immediately and take corrective action if necessary if a baby of this gestational age had begun to desaturate. She believed it would not be normal practice to 'wait and see', in a child of this gestational age, with the lungs so underdeveloped.
10:53am
At 6.15am and 7.30am, Child K desaturated again, and it was noted the ET Tube had dislodged again in the second event. Letby was on duty.
The transport team arrived for Child K, who required several rounds of treatment to stabilise her. She left, having been stabilised, at 12.50pm. The prosecution say Child K was a settled baby who would not dislodge the tube.
There was no record of an ET Tube dislodgement at Arrowe Park.
Child K died on February 20, 2016. The cause of death was extreme prematurity with severe respiratory distress syndrome.
10:58am
Letby, in further interview, said she had no memory of Child K's ET Tube slipping, and suggested it had not been secured initially. She accepted searching for Child K's mother's name, but could not recall why.
In evidence, she said she had nothing to do with the events at 6.15am and 7.25am. she agreed she had no reason to be in room 1 at 7.25am.
She said she looked up the name for the mother as "you still think of patients you care for".
She said the night was a "busy shift".
The judge says the prosecution accept they cannot prove Letby's actions caused Child K's death, but say she attempted to kill her.
www.chesterstandard.co.uk
Dr Jayaram was challenged about why he had not confronted Letby about her behaviour. He said it was "not appropriate" to raise concerns in medical notes. He said concerns were raised after this incident, and faith was put in senior management, and they were told it was unlikely anything was going on, and to see what happens. He said in hindsight, he wished they had bypassed management.
He could not remember the transport team note where he had written 'baby dislodged tube'. He said it was "highly unlikely" Child K had dislodged the ET Tube.
He accepted the note Child K had been sedated after the desaturation, but denied altering his account to fit the evidence. He said he had not seen the swipe data for timings.
Letby, in interview, said she could only remember Child K because of her size. She did not recall Child K's tube slipping or any collapse. She agreed she thought Joanne Williams would not have left Child K alone if Child K was not stable. She could not remember if the alarm was silent, but agreed it should have sounded if Child K was desaturating.
She thought it possible she was seeing if Child K was self-correcting.
In evidence, she said she did not have independent memory of Child K other than her being a tiny baby.
She said although she had no memory of it, she said she would have waited 10-20 seconds to see if Child K self-corrected, as that was "common practice".
Elizabeth Morgan said, in agreed evidence, it was possible for an ET Tube to be dislodged in an unsedated and active baby, and a nurse would not leave the child alone in this situation if the baby was not settled. She said it would be 'good practice' to observe the baby immediately and take corrective action if necessary if a baby of this gestational age had begun to desaturate. She believed it would not be normal practice to 'wait and see', in a child of this gestational age, with the lungs so underdeveloped.
10:53am
At 6.15am and 7.30am, Child K desaturated again, and it was noted the ET Tube had dislodged again in the second event. Letby was on duty.
The transport team arrived for Child K, who required several rounds of treatment to stabilise her. She left, having been stabilised, at 12.50pm. The prosecution say Child K was a settled baby who would not dislodge the tube.
There was no record of an ET Tube dislodgement at Arrowe Park.
Child K died on February 20, 2016. The cause of death was extreme prematurity with severe respiratory distress syndrome.
10:58am
Letby, in further interview, said she had no memory of Child K's ET Tube slipping, and suggested it had not been secured initially. She accepted searching for Child K's mother's name, but could not recall why.
In evidence, she said she had nothing to do with the events at 6.15am and 7.25am. she agreed she had no reason to be in room 1 at 7.25am.
She said she looked up the name for the mother as "you still think of patients you care for".
She said the night was a "busy shift".
The judge says the prosecution accept they cannot prove Letby's actions caused Child K's death, but say she attempted to kill her.
Recap: Lucy Letby trial, July 6 - judge's summing up
The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more, is…
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Dotta
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Considering all this bitching "behind the back" I doubt friendship was involved.
But hey, I only expressed MY opinion
DianaWW
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10:58am
The judge refers to the case of Child L and Child M, and their birth on April 8, 2016 at the Countess of Chester Hospital.
11:05am
The judge says it is alleged Letby tried to kill Child L by putting insulin into bags of dextrose.
Professor Peter Hindmarsh said the hypoglycaemia episode for Child L lasted from April 9-11, and multiple bags had insulin added. He said a 'not noticeable' amount of insulin, 0.1ml, would have been added to the 500ml bag, which would not change the colour.
He was of the opinion that two or three bags - depending on how many were hung - had insulin added. He said while 'sticky insulin' would account for some of the hypoglycaemia, over time more insulin would have had to have been added via a bag, he said.
Letby worked four long day shifts from April 6-9, and had moved house during that time to Westbourne Road, Chester.
She said April 9 was still "fairly busy" on the unit.
www.chesterstandard.co.uk
The judge refers to the case of Child L and Child M, and their birth on April 8, 2016 at the Countess of Chester Hospital.
11:05am
The judge says it is alleged Letby tried to kill Child L by putting insulin into bags of dextrose.
Professor Peter Hindmarsh said the hypoglycaemia episode for Child L lasted from April 9-11, and multiple bags had insulin added. He said a 'not noticeable' amount of insulin, 0.1ml, would have been added to the 500ml bag, which would not change the colour.
He was of the opinion that two or three bags - depending on how many were hung - had insulin added. He said while 'sticky insulin' would account for some of the hypoglycaemia, over time more insulin would have had to have been added via a bag, he said.
Letby worked four long day shifts from April 6-9, and had moved house during that time to Westbourne Road, Chester.
She said April 9 was still "fairly busy" on the unit.
Recap: Lucy Letby trial, July 6 - judge's summing up
The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more, is…
It might not have been genuine friendship but possible they were on closer terms than just co workers and went out together / talked to each other outside work.Considering all this bitching "behind the back" I doubt friendship was involved.
But hey, I only expressed MY opinion
DianaWW
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11:10am
After birth on April 8, Child L's blood sugar was "a bit low" at 1.9. The court had heard this was normal for premature babies, so he was started on glucose.
Reference to hypoglycaemic pathway was mentioned, that milk should be given to infants before an infusion of glucose. Neonatal practitioner Amy Davies said she had "no concerns" for Child L regarding putting him on an alternative pathway.
Dr Sudeshna Bhowmik wrote the rate of the glucose infusion. Letby said glucose bags were kept in room 1, and insulin was kept in the equipment room. She could not recall if any of the bags were kept under lock and key.
The first bag was 10% dextrose at noon on April 8.
Colleague Amy Davies denied administering insulin, saying that would only be given to babies with blood sugar levels over 12, and would be prescribed by a doctor.
11:16am
This was the 60th case Dr Dewi Evans looked at, the court is told, and saw the relation between insulin and insulin c-peptide in the blood plasma laboratory result for Child L.
He suggested to police a specialist should be approached to review his findings.
Prof Hindmarsh said neonates have higher glucose requitements, and any blood sugar level under 2.4-2.6 is a "cause for concern", so it was appropriate for the initial dextrose infusion.
For the night of April 8-9, there were "no concerns" for Child L, and all the blood glucose readings were above 2.
No fluid bags were changed during the night shift.
For the day shift of April 9, Mary Griffiths was the designated nurse for Child L. She said he was "stable".
www.chesterstandard.co.uk
After birth on April 8, Child L's blood sugar was "a bit low" at 1.9. The court had heard this was normal for premature babies, so he was started on glucose.
Reference to hypoglycaemic pathway was mentioned, that milk should be given to infants before an infusion of glucose. Neonatal practitioner Amy Davies said she had "no concerns" for Child L regarding putting him on an alternative pathway.
Dr Sudeshna Bhowmik wrote the rate of the glucose infusion. Letby said glucose bags were kept in room 1, and insulin was kept in the equipment room. She could not recall if any of the bags were kept under lock and key.
The first bag was 10% dextrose at noon on April 8.
Colleague Amy Davies denied administering insulin, saying that would only be given to babies with blood sugar levels over 12, and would be prescribed by a doctor.
11:16am
This was the 60th case Dr Dewi Evans looked at, the court is told, and saw the relation between insulin and insulin c-peptide in the blood plasma laboratory result for Child L.
He suggested to police a specialist should be approached to review his findings.
Prof Hindmarsh said neonates have higher glucose requitements, and any blood sugar level under 2.4-2.6 is a "cause for concern", so it was appropriate for the initial dextrose infusion.
For the night of April 8-9, there were "no concerns" for Child L, and all the blood glucose readings were above 2.
No fluid bags were changed during the night shift.
For the day shift of April 9, Mary Griffiths was the designated nurse for Child L. She said he was "stable".
Recap: Lucy Letby trial, July 6 - judge's summing up
The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more, is…
Dotta
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10:48am
Dr Jayaram was challenged about why he had not confronted Letby about her behaviour. He said it was "not appropriate" to raise concerns in medical notes. He said concerns were raised after this incident, and faith was put in senior management, and they were told it was unlikely anything was going on, and to see what happens. He said in hindsight, he wished they had bypassed management.
He could not remember the transport team note where he had written 'baby dislodged tube'. He said it was "highly unlikely" Child K had dislodged the ET Tube.
He accepted the note Child K had been sedated after the desaturation, but denied altering his account to fit the evidence. He said he had not seen the swipe data for timings.
Letby, in interview, said she could only remember Child K because of her size. She did not recall Child K's tube slipping or any collapse. She agreed she thought Joanne Williams would not have left Child K alone if Child K was not stable. She could not remember if the alarm was silent, but agreed it should have sounded if Child K was desaturating.
She thought it possible she was seeing if Child K was self-correcting.
In evidence, she said she did not have independent memory of Child K other than her being a tiny baby.
She said although she had no memory of it, she said she would have waited 10-20 seconds to see if Child K self-corrected, as that was "common practice".
Elizabeth Morgan said, in agreed evidence, it was possible for an ET Tube to be dislodged in an unsedated and active baby, and a nurse would not leave the child alone in this situation if the baby was not settled. She said it would be 'good practice' to observe the baby immediately and take corrective action if necessary if a baby of this gestational age had begun to desaturate. She believed it would not be normal practice to 'wait and see', in a child of this gestational age, with the lungs so underdeveloped.
10:53am
At 6.15am and 7.30am, Child K desaturated again, and it was noted the ET Tube had dislodged again in the second event. Letby was on duty.
The transport team arrived for Child K, who required several rounds of treatment to stabilise her. She left, having been stabilised, at 12.50pm. The prosecution say Child K was a settled baby who would not dislodge the tube.
There was no record of an ET Tube dislodgement at Arrowe Park.
Child K died on February 20, 2016. The cause of death was extreme prematurity with severe respiratory distress syndrome.
10:58am
Letby, in further interview, said she had no memory of Child K's ET Tube slipping, and suggested it had not been secured initially. She accepted searching for Child K's mother's name, but could not recall why.
In evidence, she said she had nothing to do with the events at 6.15am and 7.25am. she agreed she had no reason to be in room 1 at 7.25am.
She said she looked up the name for the mother as "you still think of patients you care for".
She said the night was a "busy shift".
The judge says the prosecution accept they cannot prove Letby's actions caused Child K's death, but say she attempted to kill her.
Recap: Lucy Letby trial, July 6 - judge's summing up
The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more, is…
Very disappointed the judge has not included LL being proven by computer records to be right by Baby Ks cot immediately before her second collapse.
DianaWW
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11:25am
Prof Hindmarsh says Child L was hypoglycaemic by 10am on April 9 and insulin "must have been added" between midnight and 9.30am. He said it is "fairly easy" to insert insulin into the portal of the bag via a needle.
The judge says Prof Hindmarsh says "at least three bags contained insulin" to maintain the low blood sugar levels for Child L. The insulin could have been added to the bags at the same time, he added. He said once it was in the bag, "it would not be known by smell or appearance".
The type of insulin used was 'fast-acting', the court was told.
Mary Griffiths said it was "quite a shock" the blood glucose levels for Child L dropped after the dextrose was administered.
Letby said, in evidence, said she had nothing to do with insulin in the bags, and could not assist with an explanation why the blood sugar level was low. She said she had nothing to do with the bags, prior to changing them. Mary Griffiths could not recall if the bag was changed.
A plasma blood sample was taken, but podding was "late", the court had heard, due to the collapse of Child L's twin, Child M.
The evidence, the judge says, is the blood sample was taken between noon (when Child L had a 1.6 blood sugar reading) and 3.35pm.
11:31am
The blood sample 'passed all the quality control tests' and 'performance checks' at the Royal Liverpool Hospital.
The judge tells the jury: "In short, there is no evidence to doubt the reliability of the test results, you may think."
The insulin and the insulin c-peptide results were the 'wrong way around' from what they should have been. Child L's insulin level of 1,099 should have meant an insulin c-peptide of 5,000-10,000, but it was 264. The court had heard said it was therefore synthetic insulin, administered exogenously, and to do so was "dangerous".
Clincial biochemist Dr Anna Milan said there was not anything that doubted the accuracy of the results. In cross-examination, she explained in the case of insulin, if the sample had not been treated appropriately, the insulin level would have been even higher, and insulin c-peptide was stable.
Prof Hindmarsh said the '1,099' reading was a minimum, not a maximum.
www.chesterstandard.co.uk
Prof Hindmarsh says Child L was hypoglycaemic by 10am on April 9 and insulin "must have been added" between midnight and 9.30am. He said it is "fairly easy" to insert insulin into the portal of the bag via a needle.
The judge says Prof Hindmarsh says "at least three bags contained insulin" to maintain the low blood sugar levels for Child L. The insulin could have been added to the bags at the same time, he added. He said once it was in the bag, "it would not be known by smell or appearance".
The type of insulin used was 'fast-acting', the court was told.
Mary Griffiths said it was "quite a shock" the blood glucose levels for Child L dropped after the dextrose was administered.
Letby said, in evidence, said she had nothing to do with insulin in the bags, and could not assist with an explanation why the blood sugar level was low. She said she had nothing to do with the bags, prior to changing them. Mary Griffiths could not recall if the bag was changed.
A plasma blood sample was taken, but podding was "late", the court had heard, due to the collapse of Child L's twin, Child M.
The evidence, the judge says, is the blood sample was taken between noon (when Child L had a 1.6 blood sugar reading) and 3.35pm.
11:31am
The blood sample 'passed all the quality control tests' and 'performance checks' at the Royal Liverpool Hospital.
The judge tells the jury: "In short, there is no evidence to doubt the reliability of the test results, you may think."
The insulin and the insulin c-peptide results were the 'wrong way around' from what they should have been. Child L's insulin level of 1,099 should have meant an insulin c-peptide of 5,000-10,000, but it was 264. The court had heard said it was therefore synthetic insulin, administered exogenously, and to do so was "dangerous".
Clincial biochemist Dr Anna Milan said there was not anything that doubted the accuracy of the results. In cross-examination, she explained in the case of insulin, if the sample had not been treated appropriately, the insulin level would have been even higher, and insulin c-peptide was stable.
Prof Hindmarsh said the '1,099' reading was a minimum, not a maximum.
Recap: Lucy Letby trial, July 6 - judge's summing up
The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more, is…
Last edited:
Dotta
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Are you there yet???
Have you got a nice seat in front of a big TV?
Fingers crossed for you!
Im waiting for your interesting input from the Court
Take care!
Now, now - don't break the law!
Are you there yet???
Have you got a nice seat in front of a big TV?
Fingers crossed for you!
Im waiting for your interesting input from the Court
Take care!
Still on the bloody train! I’ll be lucky to be in court by 12
Thanks will try to write up on the train home!
They never bother with the off peak/ anytime thing at my local station - the off peak tickets don’t work at the wrong time through the ticket gates but the guards always look at my ticket and let me through!
DianaWW
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11:42am
Letby, in interview, said the original blood sugar levels for Child L were not a huge surprise for a neonate. She said very prolonged low blood sugar levels can cause brain damage and even death. She said it was not common for babies to be given insulin.
She said they had access to the hypoglycaemia pathway on the unit. She said any addition to an infusion bag would be "very rare" and have to be prescribed by a doctor, and would have to be administered via a syringe on the bag port.
She replied "That wasn't done by me" to the accusation the bags had been sabotaged. She said an explanation would be insulin would be in one of the bags, and denied responsibility.
The prosecution say there is "uncontrovertible evidence" Child L was poisoned with insulin before 10am on April 9, and accounted for 'persistent' low blood sugar levels. They say this happened when Letby was on shift.
Blood sugar levels improved on April 11. The prosecution says from the second 15% dextrose bag on that day, Child L was no longer being infused with insulin.
Letby said the initial low blood sugar levels for Child L on April 8 showed naturally resolving hypoglycaemia. She accepted only she and Belinda Williamson [Simcock] had been on duty for the Child F and Child L events when the babies first had serious low blood sugar readings.
She denied doing anything to harm Child L.
www.chesterstandard.co.uk
Letby, in interview, said the original blood sugar levels for Child L were not a huge surprise for a neonate. She said very prolonged low blood sugar levels can cause brain damage and even death. She said it was not common for babies to be given insulin.
She said they had access to the hypoglycaemia pathway on the unit. She said any addition to an infusion bag would be "very rare" and have to be prescribed by a doctor, and would have to be administered via a syringe on the bag port.
She replied "That wasn't done by me" to the accusation the bags had been sabotaged. She said an explanation would be insulin would be in one of the bags, and denied responsibility.
The prosecution say there is "uncontrovertible evidence" Child L was poisoned with insulin before 10am on April 9, and accounted for 'persistent' low blood sugar levels. They say this happened when Letby was on shift.
Blood sugar levels improved on April 11. The prosecution says from the second 15% dextrose bag on that day, Child L was no longer being infused with insulin.
Letby said the initial low blood sugar levels for Child L on April 8 showed naturally resolving hypoglycaemia. She accepted only she and Belinda Williamson [Simcock] had been on duty for the Child F and Child L events when the babies first had serious low blood sugar readings.
She denied doing anything to harm Child L.
Recap: Lucy Letby trial, July 6 - judge's summing up
The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more, is…
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