UK - Nurse Lucy Letby Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #3

[Legally Bland]

12:57pm

The birth condition of the infant
Mr Myers tells the court: "We are dealing with some of the most medically fragile babies under the most intense medical care.
"All of them, bar one, are premature to varying degrees. Some had considerable problems.
"These babies are already at risk of deterioration and this can happen unexpectedly and it can be rapid."

Lucy Letby trial recap: Prosecution finishes outlining case, defence gives statement

THE prosecution in the trial of Lucy Letby, accused of murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

 

[Legally Bland]

12:58pm

The court is adjourning for the lunch break.
The defence will resume giving its outline statement after the adjournment.

Lucy Letby trial recap: Prosecution finishes outlining case, defence gives statement

THE prosecution in the trial of Lucy Letby, accused of murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

 

[infinit]

I don't see how they can think she's innocent. She wrote a confession. Unless they think she is not guilty by insanity.

I guess there is precedent for it, but if you do take it as being a confession, I find it bizarre she wrote it down, and then kept it when the suspicions were starting to be raised etc.. Why wouldn't you destroy the evidence? Unless she forgot about it and it was tucked in a draw somewhere or something similar. Same with the nursing records, unless they were trophies to her.

 

[1345]

I guarantee you one thing. Some serious cheddar is being spent by LL and her parents on her defence. 6 month trial? Jeez

Not necessarily, legal representation in criminal cases is free if you can't afford to pay for it. If the Crown decided they needed to use a KC to represent them because of the complexity of the case then it would only be fair to appoint a KC for the defendant or it may appear unfair. Also the cab-rank rule means they (the barrister) have to take the case if they are able to.

 

[Tortoise]

Now12:59

What the defence is asking the jury to consider​

The defence KC tells the jury the evidence "may look daunting" to start with, but he says he will be asking them to consider five issues.
These are...
1. The birth condition of the baby.
2. Whether there were any problems in the health and care of the child leading up to the event we are considering. He says: "Things with babies like this can be unexpected... but we also say when you get down to the detail of the evidence it isn't always that clear and it isn't always unexpected."
3. Whether the prosecution expert medical evidence proves there was deliberate harm done.
4. Whether Letby was present at the time and what the evidence can establish about what she was doing if she was there.
5. If there were failings in care with the baby we are looking at, or at the unit as a whole.

Now12:59

Court adjourned for lunch​

"We are not starting from a baseline of what could be considered good health," Ben Myers KC tells the court.
He says the jury should be wary of medical experts who say "how well these children are doing".
The court is then adjourned for lunchtime.
It will resume just after 2pm.

Lucy Letby trial - latest: Nurse's defence begins - after her handwritten 'confessions' read in court

 

[Blue182]

I'm more concerned for the dead babies' families.
They are the actual victims.

As am I, but their lives have also been turned upside down by this and they might have one of the best understandings of LL and her personality, their presence in court might speak to that?? Just a thought

 

[merrypason]

His statement - "There is a question to whether this hospital should have been caring for this number of children."

Seems the defence will focus on discrediting the medical experts/reviews and saying that everyone in the unit/hospital is responsible so LL isn't responsible.

Will come down to who and what is most believable. If they find prosecution's evidence more believable, or defence's rebuttal more believable.

However, that note will really impact the jury. Because you can have two different medical opinions of what happened to those babies, but when there's a note saying things like "I killed them on purpose" (or whatever it was), it's hard to ignore. Because the defence wasn't in the room with her at the time to correctly interpret her thinking behind it. The words are clear and direct, and that should be more powerful.

 

[Sarahlou]

I guess there is precedent for it, but if you do take it as being a confession, I find it bizarre she wrote it down, and then kept it when the suspicions were starting to be raised etc.. Why wouldn't you destroy the evidence? Unless she forgot about it and it was tucked in a draw somewhere or something similar. Same with the nursing records, unless they were trophies to her.

She doesn't come across as being the brightest person to me (common sense wise) Some of the comments she made to staff and the police seemed very unwise and careless.

I think she kept trophies.

 

[Pinkizzy]

I was wondering that too. But was told defence in criminal court is free and the barrister would've been arranged by her solicitor. I thought for free you just get someone out of law school not a top barrister like him?

She may have applied for legal aid

 

[kittythehare]

I guess there is precedent for it, but if you do take it as being a confession, I find it bizarre she wrote it down, and then kept it when the suspicions were starting to be raised etc.. Why wouldn't you destroy the evidence? Unless she forgot about it and it was tucked in a draw somewhere or something similar. Same with the nursing records, unless they were trophies to her.

'Trophy' is a word that has crossed my mind more than once.

 

[Eloise]

Once again, the defence is saying something the prosecution already preempted. "Babies in the NICU are really sick already it could just be that". Yes but the prosecution already said "this baby was doing pretty well all things considered" etc etc for each baby. IMO they're clearly going to have really good evidence that these babies were all expected to do well, by the sounds of things.

I'm only judging how I perceive each "side" is doing regarding the arguments they're putting forward and so far I'm finding the defense a little wishy-washy. Nothing they've said has really made me think "wow yeah, you're right, I hadn't thought of that".

 

[Music2022]

For a nurse standing in the neonatal unit next to an infant is "unremarkable", without a "suspicion of guilt", Mr Myers tells the court.

This is about the time she was standing over a baby? when the Dr walked in and saw the breathing tube disconnected and the alarm not sounding and her just standing there. Was the alarm broken? if not, why was it not sounding? If she turned it off then why wasn't she helping the baby? Why didn't she reconnect the breathing tube? this event on its own is suspicous, not 'unremarkable'.

 

[SOMETHINGWILLDO]

I guess there is precedent for it, but if you do take it as being a confession, I find it bizarre she wrote it down, and then kept it when the suspicions were starting to be raised etc.. Why wouldn't you destroy the evidence? Unless she forgot about it and it was tucked in a draw somewhere or something similar. Same with the nursing records, unless they were trophies to her.

I would guess she never expected her property to be searched. Same with the handwritten notes lying around.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Wow. The defence didn't even try to imply the note wasn't written by her.

I assume forensics would have already proven it was. The barrister would not waste or disrespect the court's time by going through a loop of trying to evade that which is already proven. If the note(s) were located in her private home and she openly states she wrote them, it would be quite bizarre for her defence to go on a different route.

 

[SOMETHINGWILLDO]

Does anyone know the current jail situation with Lucy Letby? Solitary confinement? Surely with the strong allegations against her she wouldn't be safe in Gen Pop?

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

I don't see how they can think she's innocent. She wrote a confession. Unless they think she is not guilty by reason of insanity.

I always struggle with this one as it's pretty insane to murder anyone, obviously if LL has done these things with intention to kill, she could surely not be sound of mind!? I feel like the notes are maybe explained by her writing about what she thinks other people will think of her.

 

[kittythehare]

I would guess she never expected her property to be searched. Same with the handwritten notes lying around.

not sure about that.
Nurses have memberships of professional organisations that advise if a problem with their practice arises , likely includes legal advisors too.
She may well have expected a search and prepared accordingly...
just guessing.

 

[JosieJo]

I think the Defence has no other option but to go down the route of adding hospital failings into the mix.

As the Defence says a lot of it will boil down to how sure the jury end up that foul play occurred ( medical evidence)..even if they feel sure on just one case.

I feel it will also boil down to the Jurors conclusion on LLs behaviour

Notes
Texts
Facebook
Photos of cards etc

All the statistics and hospital failings are just filler for both the prosecution and Defence imo

I just hope that there isn't a situation where if guilty some parents get justice and some do not

 

[Eloise]

I always struggle with this one as it's pretty insane to murder anyone, obviously if LL has done these things with intention to kill, she could surely not be sound of mind!? I feel like the notes are maybe explained by her writing about what she thinks other people will think of her.

by that thinking, nobody would be found guilty of murder But I know what you're saying.

Don't forget insanity is a legal concept, not a medical one. You really could say everyone that murders (especially with planning) is "insane" but that's not what the legal defense of insanity refers to. This article is a good explanation. Seems it wouldn't be suitable given what we know so far, and it's rare in the UK.

 

[cuecard]

I have a feeling the defence are really going to go for the throat of this hospital during this case in regards to their problems, standards etc.