UK - Nurse Lucy Letby Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #3

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3:34pm

That concludes the defence outline case.
It is also the end that the jury sits as 14 members, as one juror has indicated they can no longer serve on the jury. The reserve juror has taken their place.
The second reserve juror has also been discharged.
The jury will now sit as 12.

 
I'll just copy over the Sky updates since the lunch adjournment in one post


1h ago14:23

Experts 'influenced by confirmation bias', says defence​

Ben Myers KC is now returning to the five points that he is asking the jury to consider (see 12.59pm post) when deciding if Letby is guilty or not.
He asks the jury to "remember how quickly problems can develop" with neonatal children.
He tells the jury to listen out for any evidence that shows the unit at the Countess of Chester Hospital was "understaffed and overstretched".
He says experts can be influenced by "an overarching assumption that what has happened is a result of deliberate harm".
"The fact they are an expert does not mean this cannot happen," he says.
"Where there is no clear explanation for what has happened - and that can sometimes happen in medicine - there is a danger of an expert being drawn into an explanation of evidence that is influenced by the prosecution's theory."
He tells the jury this is called "confirmation bias".

1h ago14:28

'Doctors don't always have the answers'​

The experts that will be called in the trial have "met as a group and considered their opinions jointly", defence lawyer Ben Myers KC tells the court.
He then tells the jury that the burden is not on the defendant to provide an explanation of the events that unfolded.
"Doctors don't always have the answers and nor do medical experts," he says.
"The fact that Ms Letby can't explain a particular event... does not mean she is responsible for it."
Letby remains "adamant" that she has done nothing to harm any of the children mentioned in the indictment.
Mr Myers is now turning to each of the children in turn.

50m ago14:45

Child A died as a result of 'suboptimal care' and 'lack of fluids', says defence​

The defence accepts there is a "possibility" that Child A died as the result of an air embolus (an injection of air).
But Ben Myers KC says the defence does not accept on this count that it was the cause of death.
He says the care given to Child A was "suboptimal" and the infant collapsed either as a result of a "lack of fluids" or a result of the "various lines that had been put into him" and the potential they interfered with his heart rate.
The air found inside Child A can happen "post mortem".

48m ago14:48

'Nothing' to support injection of air as jury told to 'look at the practicalities'​

Child B, Ben Myers KC tells the court, had been in a "precarious position from birth" and was born "blue and floppy".
He says there is "nothing" to support an injection of air, or Child B's airway being blocked.
"She had other episodes where she struggled to breathe after the time on the indictment here," he says.
Next, he moves to Child C. He tells the jury although he is moving through the cases quickly, he does not mean this to be "heavy-handed" or cause offence to the families involved but that he wants to give an overview of the defence's argument.
"We accept in this case," he says, it is a "theoretical possibility" that Child C was injected with air.
He tells the jury to "look at the practicalities of that".
Child C was born "very premature": "As a starting point, sadly, a baby like that will be vulnerable to a range of complications."
This includes being more vulnerable to infection, and Child C should have been at a more specialist unit, Mr Myers says.

45m ago14:50

Absence of evidence 'does not convert it into evidence of guilt'​

Child D experienced delays to her medical care and was "never able to breath unaided", the jury is told.
"She was not put on antibiotics when she should have been," Ben Myers KC says.
He says the evidence shows infection was more likely than an injection of air.
Moving to Child E - who the prosecution said was attacked in front of his own mother - Mr Myers says there was no evidence of an air injection and "no evidence of direct trauma".
"There is no clear explanation in his case of what happened," he tells the jury but says that is not a good enough reason to assume Letby was responsible.
He then moves to count six and count 15, which involved the attempted murders of Child F and Child L. The prosecution alleges they were both poisoned with insulin.
He says the absence of evidence "does not convert it into evidence of guilt".
The IV bag, which was allegedly spiked with insulin, was changed when Letby was not on shift. The sample that was analysed was taken from this bag, which Letby had not come into contact with, Mr Myers says.
"The prosecution are fixed to the theory that all is due to Lucy Letby," he says.


38m ago14:58

Defence continues to blame care at Countess of Chester Hospital​

Letby faces three charges of the attempted murder of Child G. On 6 September 2015, the prosecution claims she was fed an excessive amount of milk and vomited out of her cot and onto a nearby chair.
Ben Myers KC, for the defence, says doctors say Child G was "born on the margins of viability".
"She was a high-risk baby with a history of abdominal distension and vomiting", the court hears.
The defence also says Child G had exhibited signs of infection.
Next, he says the case of Child H is "complicated by suboptimal treatment" that she received at the beginning of her life. Letby faces two charges of attempted murder, which took place on consecutive nights.
Mr Myers says this is "another example of suboptimal care" at the Countess of Chester Hospital.
"What happened at the hospital had nothing to do with Lucy Letby. Despite all of that, she was there," he says.
Child I - who it is claimed Letby tried to kill four times before "succeeding" - experienced "a series of ongoing clinical problems that may well have been inevitable given her extreme prematurity".

34m ago15:03

'The Countess of Chester Hospital was well out of its depth'​

Defence lawyer Ben Myers KC says "the Countess of Chester Hospital was well out of its depth" when it came to treating Child J, who Letby is accused of murdering.
He said the hospital delivered "inadequate care" to the child, who was born with a perforated and necrotic bowel.
Nothing, Mr Myers says, can link Child J's collapse to anything Letby did.
In the case of Child K, Letby is accused of doing nothing to help as the infant's oxygen levels dropped - a consultant who looked at the child found her breathing tube was dislodged.
"Ms Letby does not agree she has done that, nor was she seen to do that," Mr Myers tells the jury.
He disputes claims from the prosecution that the newborn was sedated and couldn't move.
"We say she wasn't and she could," he says.
He says the child "shouldn't have been" at the Countess of Chester Hospital.

27m ago15:09

Screaming child 'more likely due to hunger' than air injection, according to the defence​

Moving on to Child L and Child M, twin boys who survived.
Defence lawyer Ben Myers KC says "blame is being put on Ms Letby because there is no obvious alternative".
He continues: "The mere fact she is there when something happens is almost being used as an explanation for it happening."
In the case of Child N - for whom Letby faces three counts of attempted murder - he says the fact the child screamed for 30 minutes was more likely due to "hunger" than being injected with air.
One expert, the prosecution said previously, said he had never seen a neonate scream for such a long time.
Mr Myers says Child N should also not have been at the hospital.

24m ago15:13

'Signs of infection' in one triplet, and air found in another a 'natural occurrence'​

There were "signs of infection" in one of the two triplets who died at the Countess of Chester Hospital, the defence has said.
Child O was found with "severe liver damage", and both he and his brother, Child P, died within the first week of their lives.
Ben Myers KC, representing Letby, says the liver damage in Child O can be attributed to CPR.
Meanwhile, any air that was identified in Child P post-mortem is a "natural occurrence" that happens after death.
"The build-up of air found in the child can be attributed to the air flowing into the baby for respiratory support," the jury is told.
"Once he collapsed it isn't clear why he didn't respond to resuscitation but that doesn't go so far as to show this was inflicted harm."
He addresses the final case, that of Child Q and says a "poorly functioning bowel is probably what led to him being unwell and vomiting".

16m ago15:20

'Where was she? What was she doing?'​

After running through each individual case, Ben Myers KC, for the defence, turns to "Ms Letby and what her presence means at that time".
"It's a simple question, where was she, what was she doing?" he asks the jury.
But he tells them it is "important not to guess" because the evidence "cannot pinpoint" exactly where she was at any given moment.
"She can hardly be expected to remember," he says.
"We say there are many occasions when Lucy Letby was not there."
Some events took place when Letby wasn't there, but he says the prosecution has been selective with the events it has chosen.
Even when Letby was present "that doesn't get close to proving what the prosecution allege". He says it would be unfair to "treat presence as mere evidence of guilt".

14m ago15:23

Letby a 'young nurse who built her life around the neonatal unit'​

Ben Myers KC describes Letby as a young nurse with no immediate family commitment and someone who "had built her life around the neonatal unit" and thus was willing to be called in at short notice.
"Someone in that position, in that role... is more likely to be there when deterioration happens, but that doesn't mean she made it happen," he says.
Letby will not always be able to recall specific details about children or events.
"In that regard, she is like any other witness in this case," Mr Myers says.
Regarding the medical treatment given at the neonatal unit, he says: "Nobody is going to expect perfection day in day out."
He says there were "problems with the way this unit performed that had nothing to do with Lucy Letby".


5m ago15:32

Hospital was 'downgraded': 'To blame Letby is unfair and inaccurate' - defence​

Ben Myers KC tells the jury that there are other examples of "suboptimal treatment" within the Countess of Chester Hospital that are "legitimate targets of criticism".
The prosecution has "consistently" highlighted how some babies recovered once removed from Letby's orbit.
Yet the defence says: "Their improvement coincided with removal from the Countess of Chester Hospital which could not deliver, we say, on some occasions the care that was necessary or the expertise for some of the children it looked after."
Mr Myers says that blaming Letby for this is "unfair and inaccurate".
The Countess of Chester had a "lack of technical medical skills", accepted babies with too high a level of care need, and on occasion was "too busy".
He points to the fact that the hospital was "downgraded" by a clinical watchdog, and redesignated to a level one. He says the hospital "could not provide care at the level it did".


3m ago15:34

Letby 'became a target of blame' amid pressure to find explanation for high infant mortality rate​

In the case of Child K, a consultant became concerned about the correlation between the presence of Letby and the rise in sudden collapses.
But Ben Myers KC says this became "self-serving and self-fulfilling" and there was evidence for his concern.
He says she "became a target of blame and wrongly so".
"If others have failed to provide appropriate care or the unit is too busy or not appropriately staff you may agree that creates a situation in which things can go wrong... mistakes made, records not kept," he tells the jury.
He says there was "pressure to find an explanation" behind the spike in infant deaths at the unit.

2m ago15:35

Defence concludes its opening statement​

Amid a final call for the jury to consider the evidence, Ben Myers KC concludes his opening statement by saying: "This whole case is a complex case, it is not straightforward.
"And that dock is a young woman who says this is not her fault."

Lucy Letby trial - latest: Nurse 'adamant' she's done nothing to harm any of the babies in the case as defence begins
 
It's difficult to form any sort of conrete opinion after just 3/4 days, but if we are basing it simply on the opening statements, I think the prosecution have a more convincing argument at present. JMO.
 
What happens if in 6 weeks, 3 months or however long down the line another juror drops out? Is the case the. sent for retrial and begun again from scratch? I understand the vast amount of detail needed in a case like this but 6 months is such a long time
 
3:34pm

That concludes the defence outline case.
It is also the end that the jury sits as 14 members, as one juror has indicated they can no longer serve on the jury. The reserve juror has taken their place.
The second reserve juror has also been discharged.
The jury will now sit as 12.


Bloody hell - that was quick!
 
We could do with seeing the actual notes, media outlets are wording them differently and at times incomplete.

“I don’t deserve to live. I killed them on purpose because I’m not good enough to care for them. I am a horrible evil person.”

The above statement doesn’t even make sense, ‘on purpose’ means with intent and the ‘because I’m not good enough to care for them’ indicates lack of competence/without intent.
I’d wonder if she could have meant “good” in the moral sense of the word, rather than in terms of competence. That way the statement makes sense logically, albeit oddly phrased perhaps.
 
What happens if in 6 weeks, 3 months or however long down the line another juror drops out? Is the case the. sent for retrial and begun again from scratch? I understand the vast amount of detail needed in a case like this but 6 months is such a long time
A jury can in exceptional cases go down to 9 members, but at that reduced number there can only be a unanimous verdict, not a majority.

I was told that by the court usher at the Old Bailey when I was on jury service, so I don't know what law it derives from.
 
What happens if in 6 weeks, 3 months or however long down the line another juror drops out? Is the case the. sent for retrial and begun again from scratch? I understand the vast amount of detail needed in a case like this but 6 months is such a long time
This is my concern. One member has already stated they can’t continue and the second reserve has been dismissed.

With such a long trial, there’s a real risk of other jurors dropping out further down the line which could possibly jeopardise the entire trial actually finishing. I would have thought they’d have kept ‘reserve’ jurors for this very reason?
 
She may already have been spoken to by the police at this point as many people at the hospital certainly will have been. Names will have been circulating and if she had been spoken to it seems fairly likely that the police would have been speaking in terms of these specific patients.
The prosecution stated Facebook search dates which were well before any police investigation?
 
Am I correct in that when she wrote that note, she had only been taken off the ward because of baby Q, who did not die, but on the surface level something went wrong. And they were looking into it.
 
Am I correct in that when she wrote that note, she had only been taken off the ward because of baby Q, who did not die, but on the surface level something went wrong. And they were looking into it.
They haven't explained how her removal from the unit came about, or how it was framed to her, I don't think.
 
Well, I can see why the police have thrown so much time and money on this, and the investigation is still ongoing. Will be a lot of evidence to present and counteract.

All this mention of how the unit was failing, understaffed, not enough skills blah blah blah - not sure how that ties in with her messages to her friend that she was "bored and unfulfilled by the slow days".
 
Regarding LL saying she can't remember Facebook searches, I think the phrasing of the question put to her is important.

If she was asked "have you ever searched for X on Facebook?", and X is someone she's searched for on several occasions, then it would be very odd for her to say "I don't remember".
However, if the question was phrased as, say, "did you search for X on February 15th?" then "I don't remember" becomes more reasonable.

It would be good to know how specific these questions were before making a judgement.
 
No smoking guns from defence yet ..looks like they are just going down the route of hoping the hospital poor performance and lack of post mortem will be enough
 
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I'm a little confused, the defence says not "not all doctors are right" and thus we are not to believe them. When speaking about the different babies.

But when the defence lawyer is speaking medical terms about how the experts are wrong, we believe him, with no backing expert?
 
I'm a little confused, the defence says not "not all doctors are right" and thus we are not to believe them. When speaking about the different babies.

But when the defence lawyer is speaking medical terms about how the experts are wrong, we believe him, with no backing expert?

The defense may not need any experts if they can destroy the credibility of the experts called by the prosecution.
 
What happens if in 6 weeks, 3 months or however long down the line another juror drops out? Is the case the. sent for retrial and begun again from scratch? I understand the vast amount of detail needed in a case like this but 6 months is such a long time
I have never known any case of this magnitude to have so many twists, turns and outright staggeringly shocking events over such a length of time. It's just mind-boggling, quite frankly! At this point I'd be rather surprised if we got to six months will all the jurors still in place.
 
If "no explanation" is what they are running with for a lot of these charges - they might as well pack up now.

No explanation is good for a defence case.

It's for the prosecution to prove causality in each case, so that the jury can be sure.

The defence just need to create the enough doubt in what the prosecution claim.....and no definitive explanation works!
 
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