VERDICT WATCH UK - Nurse Lucy Letby, Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #30

[Parker Knoll]

I woke up really early and it was the first thing I thought of but I am NOT going to predict as I am always wrong and I am really hoping for a result today.
My Chester is totally unperturbed and not remotely stressed as you can see !
Dig deep jury.

 

[bbsaz]

I feel more nauseous today than I have on any other deliberation day.

Is that a sign?!

 

[WaxLyrical]

I’ll try reverse psychology on the universe and say that we are most definitely not getting any verdicts today.

 

[Blondiexoxo]

I feel more nauseous today than I have on any other deliberation day.

Is that a sign?!

Me too! Now they are allowed a majority I thought it would be pretty quick. Perhaps they are filling out paperwork… fingers crossed! We may even hear before lunch. That might be wishful thinking

 

[bbsaz]

They will know today if majority is achievable or not.

I think today will be telling. Imo no verdict means they are close to a majority and are thrashing it out, hoping to wear the odd minority juror down.

A verdict today makes me think Hung on some counts as they realise there's no way of getting to that 10-1

[Imo yaddah yaddah]

 

[marynnu]

I woke up really early and it was the first thing I thought of but I am NOT going to predict as I am always wrong and I am really hoping for a result today.
My Chester is totally unperturbed and not remotely stressed as you can see !
Dig deep jury.

No predictions eh. How long do you think you can hold out PK?

 

[ChatteringBirds]

I wonder if someday a juror will read through these threads. And what he or she will think.

 

[marynnu]

I feel more nauseous today than I have on any other deliberation day.

Is that a sign?!

Bound to be.

 

[Parker Knoll]

This afternoon, 3.15 (ish)
Eughhhh !

 

[DinerMite]

I feel like I'm in pins today waiting for a Breaking News.

 

[Tortoise]

Without knowing if the judge decided to give them a majority direction off his own bat, thinking they had had long enough to deliberate all the charges, or if the jury had sent a note saying they were now stuck, I don't think it's possible really to guess where they are at.

If they hadn't gone through all the charges yet, the majority direction might not speed things up or be instrumental in faster verdicts. I would hope they had, but we can't really know.

 

[gc105]

Sky News have certainly been reporting on the deliberations more since yesterdays announcement from the judge.

The reporter has said there is a huge media presence there today. Is this just reporters hoping verdicts are imminent, or are they given any indication from the court? Seems strange the media interest has picked up dramatically yesterday & today.

 

[marynnu]

I feel like I'm in pins today waiting for a Breaking News.

Me too. My Covid-infested eyeballs are basically glued to the screen.

 

[marynnu]

Without knowing if the judge decided to give them a majority direction off his own bat, thinking they had had long enough to deliberate all the charges, or if the jury had sent a note saying they were now stuck, I don't think it's possible really to guess where they are at.

If they hadn't gone through all the charges yet, the majority direction might not speed things up or be instrumental in faster verdicts. I would hope they had, but we can't really know.

Is the judge able to do that? My impression was that it has to be a response to the jury. But I'm speaking from a position of total ignorance!

 

[Anxala]

I wonder if someday a juror will read through these threads. And what he or she will think.

I suspect there'd be a lot of eye-rolling on their part... particularly when they come across the many references to their idleness, lack of speed and failure to grasp the facts.

 

[Parker Knoll]

Yes he can. He doesn’t need any prompts.

 

[gc105]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1689236210353377280

0:38 seconds in - an enormous media presence.

Please, please, please let the end be in sight. It’s so easy to lose sight of the fact, that at the heart of all this are 17 bereaved & heartbroken families. For some of those families, it’s been over 8 years - 8 YEARS of pain, grief & anguish. Every single one of them deserve answers & justice for their beautiful little babies.

 

[Sarahlou]

I reckon it will be today or tomorrow. Fingers crossed!

 

[Kemug]

On the positive side, we have gone from needing 12 jurors to give the same verdict, to only needing 10. That has to be an improvement, right?

 

[Tortoise]

Is the judge able to do that? My impression was that it has to be a response to the jury. But I'm speaking from a position of total ignorance!

A few quotes from the crown court compendium Crown Court Compendium - June 2023 - Courts and Tribunals Judiciary

these are example directions that can be used -

page 508 -

Example

It is important that you try to reach a verdict/s which are unanimous: that means verdict/s on which all of you agree.

{The following is a form of words suggested by the CrimPD 8.6}

“As you may know, the law permits me, in certain circumstances, to accept a verdict which is not the verdict of you all. Those circumstances have not as yet arisen, so that when you retire I must ask you to reach a verdict upon which each one of you is agreed. Should, however, the time come when it is possible for me to accept a majority verdict, I will give you a further direction.”

{The following is an alternative form, elaborating on CrimPD wording}

You may have heard of majority verdicts but please put this completely out of your mind. Should the time come when I could accept a verdict which is less than one on which you all agree I would invite you back in to court and give you further directions. But, first this would not be for quite some time and, second, the initiative for this must come from me: so please do not send me a note asking if you can return a majority verdict or stating, for example, “Our voting strengths are X and Y”.

So please concentrate on reaching a unanimous verdict. You may take as long as you need: you are not under any pressure of time at all.


Page 514 -

21-7 Majority verdicts

ARCHBOLD 4-509; BLACKSTONE’S D19.35; CrimPD 8.6

1. No majority verdict can be accepted, and thus no majority direction should ever be given, unless the jury has been deliberating for at least two hours.1367 In practice, to allow time for the jury to go from the courtroom to their retiring room and vice versa, a period of at least two hours and ten minutes is conventionally allowed.

2. It is for the judge to decide when a majority direction is to be given, although it is good practice to inform the advocates of this intention. Sometimes advocates may ask the judge when he/she is likely to give such a direction. The judge is under no obligation to give any indication, although in practice this may be done.

3. If the judge has decided to give a majority direction the jury will be sent for and, when they have returned to court the clerk will then ask the jury if they have reached a verdict or verdicts on which they are all agreed. Assuming that the answer to this question is ‘No’ the jury should be directed that:

(1) They should still, if at all possible, reach a unanimous verdict.

(2) If however they are unable to reach a unanimous verdict the time has now come when the court could accept a verdict which is not unanimous but one on which a majority of at least 10 of them agree; that is to say a majority of 10/2 or 11/1.

4. The above assumes that the jury has 12 members: if there are fewer than 12 members the majority permitted is:

(1) if there are 11 jurors: at least 10;
(2) if there are 10 jurors: at least 9;
(3) if there are 9 jurors no majority verdict is permitted.1368

Example

In a moment I will ask you to go back to your room to continue your deliberations. It is important that you continue to try to reach a verdict on which all of you agree. But if you find that you really cannot all agree on your verdict, I may now accept a verdict on which 11 or 10 of you agree. That means I can only accept a Guilty or Not Guilty verdict where there is a majority of either 10 to 2 or 11 to 1. Please will you now return to your room and continue with your deliberations.

1367 Juries Act 1974 s.17(4)
1368 See Patten [2018] EWCA Crim 2492 where an error in this regard was made.


Page 515 -

21-8 The Watson direction

ARCHBOLD 4-492; BLACKSTONE’S D19.88

1. Although some decisions in the Court of Appeal have discouraged the giving of a Watson direction, describing it as an exceptional course,1369 in the more recent case of Logo1370 the court, pointing out that Watson1371 was still the leading case, stated these principles, per Saunders J, sitting with Hallett VP and McGowan J, at paragraph 20:

“…First, such a direction should only be given after the majority direction has been given and after some time has elapsed or a further direction is sought from the judge by the jury. That is a gloss on Watson which has become generally accepted in other cases. Secondly, there will usually be no need for a direction. Thirdly, the judge should follow the wording set out in the headnote to Watson … Those principles are to be culled from the cases and, we would add, while the decision is one for the judge’s discretion, he or she should normally invite submissions from counsel as to the way in which the discretion is exercised.”

He went on, at paragraph 25:

“Given the difficulties that this direction can cause, trial judges may wish to think long and hard before exercising their discretion to do so and, as we have said, they will also be well advised to seek the submissions of counsel to assist them reach a considered decision.”

2. Circumstances in which this direction is given will therefore be rare. They will not arise unless and until the jury have been deliberating for a significant time in the context of the particular case and after they have been given a majority direction and have had further time in retirement.

3. If the judge receives a note from the jury asking for help, or stating that they are having difficulty in reaching a verdict, after discussion with the advocates, the judge may give a further direction if he/she decides that it is appropriate to do so.

4. If the judge does decide to give any further direction the words of the direction formulated by Lord Lane CJ in Watson should be followed without deviation (subject, it is submitted, to reference to affirmation in a case in which one or more jurors have affirmed).

5. The judge must avoid putting the jury under any pressure or creating any perception that he/she is doing so.

The Watson direction

“Each of you has taken an oath to return a true verdict according to the evidence. No one must be false to that oath, but you have a duty not only as individuals but collectively. That is the strength of the jury system. Each of you takes into the jury box with you your individual experience and wisdom. Your task is to pool that experience and wisdom. You do that by giving your views and listening to the views of others. There must necessarily be discussion, argument and give and take within the scope of your oath. That is the way in which agreement is reached. If, unhappily, [10 of] you cannot reach agreement you must say so.”