Last edited by a moderator:
UK - Nurse Lucy Letby Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #6
- Thread starter sleuth777
- Start date
- Status
- Joined
- May 9, 2009
- Messages
- 39,249
- Reaction score
- 117,140
ADMIN NOTE:
This is a trial thread to discuss the trial only. It is not a general discussion thread.
Although WS is based in the USA, we do try to manage the various discussions according to laws of other countries.
As this trial is in the UK, the case is under sub judice so please stick to discussing the trial content without posting anything that violates the following principles:
Basically anything that may prejudice the accused’s right to a fair trial
Any suggestion, opinion, or direct accusation that the accused is either guilty OR innocent
(i.e. the accused cannot be called "the killer"; use "the accused", "the alleged killer", or "the defendant")
A defendant’s previous history of any offences is off limits
Scandalizing the court (disparaging judges, lawyers, any officer of the Court) is off limits
Broadcasting anything about proceedings which happen in the jury's absence is off limits
Any non compliance with an Order of the court is off limits
Note in the event of an Appeal subsequent to verdict:
Appeals are usually heard by senior judges who are not likely to be influenced by the media, therefore responsible comment is usually considered acceptable once a trial has concluded, regardless of if there is going to be an appeal.
Reference: UK Contempt of Court Act 1981
This is a trial thread to discuss the trial only. It is not a general discussion thread.
Although WS is based in the USA, we do try to manage the various discussions according to laws of other countries.
As this trial is in the UK, the case is under sub judice so please stick to discussing the trial content without posting anything that violates the following principles:
Basically anything that may prejudice the accused’s right to a fair trial
Any suggestion, opinion, or direct accusation that the accused is either guilty OR innocent
(i.e. the accused cannot be called "the killer"; use "the accused", "the alleged killer", or "the defendant")
A defendant’s previous history of any offences is off limits
Scandalizing the court (disparaging judges, lawyers, any officer of the Court) is off limits
Broadcasting anything about proceedings which happen in the jury's absence is off limits
Any non compliance with an Order of the court is off limits
Note in the event of an Appeal subsequent to verdict:
Appeals are usually heard by senior judges who are not likely to be influenced by the media, therefore responsible comment is usually considered acceptable once a trial has concluded, regardless of if there is going to be an appeal.
Reference: UK Contempt of Court Act 1981
- Joined
- May 9, 2009
- Messages
- 39,249
- Reaction score
- 117,140
ADMIN NOTE:
Numerous posts have been removed.
There is no MSM or other source to support speculation about any specific mental health issue of the accused. This includes autism, which oddly seems to crop in so many discussions when there is nothing to warrant it.
Sub judice is not the topic of this discussion. It is applicable to all cases in the UK.
Numerous posts have been removed.
There is no MSM or other source to support speculation about any specific mental health issue of the accused. This includes autism, which oddly seems to crop in so many discussions when there is nothing to warrant it.
Sub judice is not the topic of this discussion. It is applicable to all cases in the UK.
- Joined
- May 9, 2009
- Messages
- 39,249
- Reaction score
- 117,140
ADMIN NOTE:
This thread is specifically dedicated to discussion of the trial for the accused Lucy Letby. Please discuss this trial without bringing other cases into the discussion. All that does is introduce support for speculation regarding guilt or innocence which is sub judice.
This thread is specifically dedicated to discussion of the trial for the accused Lucy Letby. Please discuss this trial without bringing other cases into the discussion. All that does is introduce support for speculation regarding guilt or innocence which is sub judice.
- Joined
- Mar 28, 2010
- Messages
- 4,444
- Reaction score
- 13,318
MOD NOTE:
From the Verification Process page:
If you would like to add yourself as an expert in a certain field or as an insider to a case, please send an email to wsverify@yahoo.com Please note this is a new email address.
If you do not wish to be identified as an expert in a certain area, we ask that you refrain from answering questions that are specifically directed to those that have been verified as specialist in their area and that you do not claim to be a professional in any area.
If a member posts with "expertise" please check to make sure they are on this list. If not, please do not take their post as professional information, but rather just as another opinion; much as you would with any member of the general posting membership.
Click here for the list of verified professionals and verified insiders.
Please cease the bickering about statistics and statisticians. We have no verified statisticians posting on this thread, no statisticians who have testified in court and whose testimony you can discuss. You may have a conversation in PMs if you wish, but don't bring it to the thread. Up to 20 can participate, and such a thread can't be seen or moderated by moderators or administration.
From the Verification Process page:
If you would like to add yourself as an expert in a certain field or as an insider to a case, please send an email to wsverify@yahoo.com Please note this is a new email address.
If you do not wish to be identified as an expert in a certain area, we ask that you refrain from answering questions that are specifically directed to those that have been verified as specialist in their area and that you do not claim to be a professional in any area.
If a member posts with "expertise" please check to make sure they are on this list. If not, please do not take their post as professional information, but rather just as another opinion; much as you would with any member of the general posting membership.
Click here for the list of verified professionals and verified insiders.
Please cease the bickering about statistics and statisticians. We have no verified statisticians posting on this thread, no statisticians who have testified in court and whose testimony you can discuss. You may have a conversation in PMs if you wish, but don't bring it to the thread. Up to 20 can participate, and such a thread can't be seen or moderated by moderators or administration.
- Joined
- Sep 13, 2003
- Messages
- 29,044
- Reaction score
- 44,748
Short Version of the post below. If you would like to donate to our volunteer moderator staff please do so at Pay Websleuths.com using PayPal.Me
Hi Everyone,
Forgive me for interrupting but this is important. Please do not post questions about this post on this thread. Go to THIS THREAD to ask questions.
The mod staff at Websleuths.com work non-stop to keep Websleuths open 24/7 and to make sure
Websleuths is a safe place for you to post.
If you would like to donate to the moderators at Websleuths.com please do so using this link Pay Websleuths.com using PayPal.Me
Websleuths.com will always be free for members. If you like to read at Websleuths because of the incredible work of our members please know the reason our members are able to do what they do is because of our dedicated volunteer moderator staff.
This video explains what the moderators do every day to keep Websleuths the most respected true crime discussion forum on the Internet.
Pay Websleuths.com using PayPal.Me
Thank you,
Tricia Griffith Owner/Websleuths.com
Hi Everyone,
Forgive me for interrupting but this is important. Please do not post questions about this post on this thread. Go to THIS THREAD to ask questions.
The mod staff at Websleuths.com work non-stop to keep Websleuths open 24/7 and to make sure
Websleuths is a safe place for you to post.
If you would like to donate to the moderators at Websleuths.com please do so using this link Pay Websleuths.com using PayPal.Me
Websleuths.com will always be free for members. If you like to read at Websleuths because of the incredible work of our members please know the reason our members are able to do what they do is because of our dedicated volunteer moderator staff.
This video explains what the moderators do every day to keep Websleuths the most respected true crime discussion forum on the Internet.
Pay Websleuths.com using PayPal.Me
Thank you,
Tricia Griffith Owner/Websleuths.com
Stumpyaura
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jan 12, 2017
- Messages
- 196
- Reaction score
- 1,620
Seems like they've broken for lunch. I have to pop out for a bit now if anyone wants to do the updates
@infinit Just wanted to reply to your previous comment over in thread #5,
I do agree with you in regards to mum being somewhere else/recovering. But even when they attended together and LL was claimed to be hovering around the machines, mum asked how baby was and for some privacy, I honestly was expecting to see *some* interaction from that in some way at least in the nursing notes. Especially as mum asked if baby was ok at this point. I found it a little unusual there is reference to dad in the notes but not that interaction tbh.
I do agree with you in regards to mum being somewhere else/recovering. But even when they attended together and LL was claimed to be hovering around the machines, mum asked how baby was and for some privacy, I honestly was expecting to see *some* interaction from that in some way at least in the nursing notes. Especially as mum asked if baby was ok at this point. I found it a little unusual there is reference to dad in the notes but not that interaction tbh.
I think the reason the prosecution called D's mom as a witness is to say that she saw LL 'hovering' over her baby the day before her death. The defence contests that Lucy was there. I assume therefore that LL wasn't D's designated nurse and had no business being there, hence not keeping notes of the interaction
merrypason
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Mar 10, 2021
- Messages
- 233
- Reaction score
- 2,269
You were right!
A nursing note at 7.15pm said attempts were made to get Child D off CPAP, but breathing was still 'shallow' off that, so CPAP resumed.
Swipe data showed Lucy Letby arrived at the neonatal unit at 7.26pm.
The handover note showed Letby was one of the nurses on duty that night, with a different nurse being the designated nurse for Child D, in room 1.
Letby was the designated nurse for two other babies in room 1
JosieJo
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Aug 8, 2018
- Messages
- 3,186
- Reaction score
- 21,943
2:10pm
The court is continuing to go through the sequence of events, which is up to the afternoon of Sunday, June 21, 2015.
2:13pm
A 'family communication' note is made at 5.53pm - "Dad visiting most of the day, he is up to date with the plan of care. Mum has visited this evening."
Both parents were 'anxious' about the levels of care provided.
2:18pm
A nursing note at 7.15pm said attempts were made to get Child D off CPAP, but breathing was still 'shallow' off that, so CPAP resumed.
Swipe data showed Lucy Letby arrived at the neonatal unit at 7.26pm.
The handover note showed Letby was one of the nurses on duty that night, with a different nurse being the designated nurse for Child D, in room 1.
Letby was the designated nurse for two other babies in room 1.
2:19pm
At this time, another nurse was looking after Child B in room 3 for that night.
The court had previously heard Child B had suffered a non-fatal collapse earlier that month.
2:28pm
Further observations for Child D are documented throughout that night shift, until after 1am.
www.chesterstandard.co.uk
The court is continuing to go through the sequence of events, which is up to the afternoon of Sunday, June 21, 2015.
2:13pm
A 'family communication' note is made at 5.53pm - "Dad visiting most of the day, he is up to date with the plan of care. Mum has visited this evening."
Both parents were 'anxious' about the levels of care provided.
2:18pm
A nursing note at 7.15pm said attempts were made to get Child D off CPAP, but breathing was still 'shallow' off that, so CPAP resumed.
Swipe data showed Lucy Letby arrived at the neonatal unit at 7.26pm.
The handover note showed Letby was one of the nurses on duty that night, with a different nurse being the designated nurse for Child D, in room 1.
Letby was the designated nurse for two other babies in room 1.
2:19pm
At this time, another nurse was looking after Child B in room 3 for that night.
The court had previously heard Child B had suffered a non-fatal collapse earlier that month.
2:28pm
Further observations for Child D are documented throughout that night shift, until after 1am.
Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Thursday, November 3
The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more,…
JosieJo
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Aug 8, 2018
- Messages
- 3,186
- Reaction score
- 21,943
2:31pm
A neonatal infusion prescription chart at 1.25am, for Child D, is shown to the court. Lucy Letby is one of the two nurses to provide a signature for a saline dose prescription at that time.
2:32pm
Child D then first collapsed at 1.30am.
Mr Johnson: "This is within a very short time of the document with Lucy Letby's signature on, isn't it?"
Kate Tyndall: "Yes."
www.chesterstandard.co.uk
A neonatal infusion prescription chart at 1.25am, for Child D, is shown to the court. Lucy Letby is one of the two nurses to provide a signature for a saline dose prescription at that time.
2:32pm
Child D then first collapsed at 1.30am.
Mr Johnson: "This is within a very short time of the document with Lucy Letby's signature on, isn't it?"
Kate Tyndall: "Yes."
Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Thursday, November 3
The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more,…
JosieJo
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Aug 8, 2018
- Messages
- 3,186
- Reaction score
- 21,943
And here we go again !2:31pm
A neonatal infusion prescription chart at 1.25am, for Child D, is shown to the court. Lucy Letby is one of the two nurses to provide a signature for a saline dose prescription at that time.
2:32pm
Child D then first collapsed at 1.30am.
Mr Johnson: "This is within a very short time of the document with Lucy Letby's signature on, isn't it?"
Kate Tyndall: "Yes."
Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Thursday, November 3
The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more,…
JosieJo
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Aug 8, 2018
- Messages
- 3,186
- Reaction score
- 21,943
2:34pm
A nursing note, timestamped for 1.30pm but written retrospectively, recalls: "Called to nursery ward...[Child D] had desaturated to 70s, required oral suction as was bubbly and had lost colour. Discolourations to skin observed, trunk/legs/arm/chin."
www.chesterstandard.co.uk
A nursing note, timestamped for 1.30pm but written retrospectively, recalls: "Called to nursery ward...[Child D] had desaturated to 70s, required oral suction as was bubbly and had lost colour. Discolourations to skin observed, trunk/legs/arm/chin."
Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Thursday, November 3
The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more,…
The theme of discolurations is interesting and seems quite common in these babies. I wonder how common they are outside of these deaths.2:34pm
A nursing note, timestamped for 1.30pm but written retrospectively, recalls: "Called to nursery ward...[Child D] had desaturated to 70s, required oral suction as was bubbly and had lost colour. Discolourations to skin observed, trunk/legs/arm/chin."
Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Thursday, November 3
The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more,…
kittythehare
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jan 11, 2016
- Messages
- 18,354
- Reaction score
- 107,191
Saline.
Perfect, thank you for clarifying
cuecard
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Mar 10, 2021
- Messages
- 465
- Reaction score
- 5,739
Given the comments we've heard so far about these almost flitting pink/purple rashes, it seems like they are unusual.
JosieJo
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Aug 8, 2018
- Messages
- 3,186
- Reaction score
- 21,943
2:39pm
Notes of medication are made.
At 2.40am, a neonatal infusion prescription chart is recorded for a sodium chloride dose with 10% dextrose. Letby is one of the two nurses signing for it.
2:41pm
The medication administration update is made on the computer at 2.44am.
At 3am, Child D collapsed for the second time.
The nursing note recorded for 3am: '[Child D] crying and desaturated again to 70s, commenced on 100% O2 via CPAP and picked up well but skin discoloured again..
2:44pm
At 3.20am, a further neonatal infusion prescription is made, with Lucy Letby being one of the signatories.
At 3.45am, Child D collapses for the third and final time.
The nursing note recalled the alarm went off and Child D 'desaturated and then became apneoic. Called Letby...' Resuscitation efforts began but to 'no effect'.
A bleep alarm went off and doctors were called to the neonatal unit.
2:47pm
The court is shown a number of clinical notes are made by doctors for this time. These clinical notes will be discussed further when the doctors involved in them come to court to give evidence in the coming days.
They include the resuscitation efforts, administration of adrenaline doses and the decision, ultimately, to discontinue CPR.
Child D died at 4.25am.
www.chesterstandard.co.uk
Notes of medication are made.
At 2.40am, a neonatal infusion prescription chart is recorded for a sodium chloride dose with 10% dextrose. Letby is one of the two nurses signing for it.
2:41pm
The medication administration update is made on the computer at 2.44am.
At 3am, Child D collapsed for the second time.
The nursing note recorded for 3am: '[Child D] crying and desaturated again to 70s, commenced on 100% O2 via CPAP and picked up well but skin discoloured again..
2:44pm
At 3.20am, a further neonatal infusion prescription is made, with Lucy Letby being one of the signatories.
At 3.45am, Child D collapses for the third and final time.
The nursing note recalled the alarm went off and Child D 'desaturated and then became apneoic. Called Letby...' Resuscitation efforts began but to 'no effect'.
A bleep alarm went off and doctors were called to the neonatal unit.
2:47pm
The court is shown a number of clinical notes are made by doctors for this time. These clinical notes will be discussed further when the doctors involved in them come to court to give evidence in the coming days.
They include the resuscitation efforts, administration of adrenaline doses and the decision, ultimately, to discontinue CPR.
Child D died at 4.25am.
Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Thursday, November 3
The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more,…
- Status