UK - Nurse Lucy Letby Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #6

[kittythehare]

Tweets from start of the day -

https://twitter.com/MerseyHack

The jury is hearing evidence from the mother of Child D. The mum is in the witness box. A reminder - for legal reasons we can’t identify the alleged victims or their families. @BBCNWT 1.30

Child D’s mum explains that her waters broke early but there were delays at the Countess of Chester Hospital in deciding what to do. “I didn’t feel right. The baby didn’t seem to be moving as well. I was concerned for infection because I hadn’t been given antibiotics.”

Eventually Child D was delivered by C-section. “She seemed very lifeless. She didn’t scream. There was no sound. Everything was quiet in the room.” says D’s mum.

D’s mum continued to have concerns when baby brought to her after delivery: “She was quite limp… she seemed to struggle to breathe.” A doctor told the mum the baby’s condition was due to being delivered by C section, but mum was not reassured.

Child D was taken to the neonatal unit. Next day 21/6/15 was Father’s Day. Mum was told D was struggling to breathe and wasn’t feeding, but she says staff didn’t seem too worried at that stage.

D was on CPAP (continuous positive airway pressure) but every time they tried to take her off it she crashed. But staff didn’t seem worried “ as she was a good sized baby. They didn’t seem overly concerned. She was poorly but making good progress.” says mum.

The jury is shown a plan of the neonatal unit drawn by D’s mum showing where her baby was in the unit at the Countess of #Chester.

“[A doctor] promised me I would be able to hold her and feed her the next day.” But the next morning mum was called to the unit because D was really ill. She saw the same doctor trying to resuscitate D. “We were just standing there watching [D] die.”

Mum tells jury about a time before D died when Lucy #Letby was the only nurse in the room when she and her husband went to see D. Mum says Ms Letby was “sort of hovering by the incubator but not doing much. She sort of just was watching us.”

Ben Myers KC for Miss Letby asks D’s mum if it could have been a different nurse by the incubator on that occasion. “I don’t think so.” She agrees she knows it was Ms Letby because she saw her picture in the paper.

The judge asks Mr Myers if it’s disputed that the nurse on that occasion was Ms Letby, and Mr Myers says it is.

In a statement read to court, D’s father says “We were never given the impression that [her] condition was life threatening. It never crossed my mind that she was in danger of dying. When she died were just not prepared for it.”

In a What’s App message to a colleague after D died Lucy Letby said “We had such a rubbish night. Our job is just far too sad sometimes.” And later to same colleague “We lost [D].”

The colleague replied “What ! But she was improving, what happened ?” “I can’t believe you were on again. You are having such a hard time.”

3 days after Child D died Lucy Letby searched for the names of her parents on Facebook.

4 days after D died Ms Letby messaged a colleague saying “I can’t talk about it [the deaths at the unit]. I can’t stop crying. I just need to get it out of my system.”

In October 2015 (4 months after D died) Lucy Letby made a Facebook search for the name of the baby’s father on a Saturday tea time.

The father in October.
Why?

 

[Sundial]

Also didn't she recognise the discolouration in her other patients? And knows they didn't die of sepsis. So why this one?

I’m struggling to understand how a highly skilled, qualified nurse dedicated to her job etc, who had additional neonatal specialist training, would state it as sepsis without any mention of it from a doctor or anywhere else,but also wouldn’t connect any dots or concerns of a fourth child dying in similar circumstances. With specialised training,.. I just don’t understand that at all MOO

 

[ShireChe]

I don't see anything particularly unusual in her messages to be honest. I'm wondering if the prosecution are building up to setting out a motive, because so far all the messages seem fairly 'normal' and not particularly useful to their case.

 

[Music2022]

'Rubbish night' also an 'unusual' choice of words.

How so? I often hear people say they’ve had a rubbish day at work.

 

[kittythehare]

How so? I often hear people say they’ve had a rubbish day at work.

It's not an adjective I'd apply to an awful tragic loss of life.

 

[JosieJo]

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Thursday, November 3

The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more,…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

A nursing note by Yvonne Farmer recorded that Child D was blessed by a reverend with the family present, with hand and footprints obtained.

The note added: "Parents had lots of cuddles and said goodbye to [Child D]."

The parents were also given a bereavement box with mementoes and information on the Sands charity.

4:20pm

Further messages are echanged between Letby and her colleague the following evening.
The colleague asks: "How you doing?"
Letby replies: "I'm ok - trying not to think about it. Work busy but at least we have 6 tonight."
The colleague enquires about Child D and whether anything had been said about not "bringing her through sooner on Saturday".
Letby replies: "I don't think so", before adding there was a theory Child D may have had meningitis.
The colleague responds: "I'm worried I missed something."
Letby: "I don't think any of us did and she [Child D] was on the right antibiotics."

 

[Dotta]

That text is the only time I've considered that maybe this was God complex. I don't know - if a lot of my patients died in a short span, I'd be trying to understand what could have gone wrong with their care - like all the other nurses and doctors were trying to understand. Not talking about fate. I can understand thinking it in her personal life but when you're in the job of saving lives, saying it about patients feels odd.

Also this sentence bothers me

"How do such sick babies get through and others get to [die] so unexpectedly?"

What does it mean 'get to'? 'Getting to do something' is normally something people want to do right? You wouldn't say, "you're so unlucky you get to go to prison". Why do the babies 'get to' die? Does she think they want that? Just odd.

The text also says:
"There is a reason for everything".
Sounds like having a clear motive in mind.

Moo

 

[JosieJo]

Tweets from start of the day -

https://twitter.com/MerseyHack

The jury is hearing evidence from the mother of Child D. The mum is in the witness box. A reminder - for legal reasons we can’t identify the alleged victims or their families. @BBCNWT 1.30

Child D’s mum explains that her waters broke early but there were delays at the Countess of Chester Hospital in deciding what to do. “I didn’t feel right. The baby didn’t seem to be moving as well. I was concerned for infection because I hadn’t been given antibiotics.”

Eventually Child D was delivered by C-section. “She seemed very lifeless. She didn’t scream. There was no sound. Everything was quiet in the room.” says D’s mum.

D’s mum continued to have concerns when baby brought to her after delivery: “She was quite limp… she seemed to struggle to breathe.” A doctor told the mum the baby’s condition was due to being delivered by C section, but mum was not reassured.

Child D was taken to the neonatal unit. Next day 21/6/15 was Father’s Day. Mum was told D was struggling to breathe and wasn’t feeding, but she says staff didn’t seem too worried at that stage.

D was on CPAP (continuous positive airway pressure) but every time they tried to take her off it she crashed. But staff didn’t seem worried “ as she was a good sized baby. They didn’t seem overly concerned. She was poorly but making good progress.” says mum.

The jury is shown a plan of the neonatal unit drawn by D’s mum showing where her baby was in the unit at the Countess of #Chester.

“[A doctor] promised me I would be able to hold her and feed her the next day.” But the next morning mum was called to the unit because D was really ill. She saw the same doctor trying to resuscitate D. “We were just standing there watching [D] die.”

Mum tells jury about a time before D died when Lucy #Letby was the only nurse in the room when she and her husband went to see D. Mum says Ms Letby was “sort of hovering by the incubator but not doing much. She sort of just was watching us.”

Ben Myers KC for Miss Letby asks D’s mum if it could have been a different nurse by the incubator on that occasion. “I don’t think so.” She agrees she knows it was Ms Letby because she saw her picture in the paper.

The judge asks Mr Myers if it’s disputed that the nurse on that occasion was Ms Letby, and Mr Myers says it is.

In a statement read to court, D’s father says “We were never given the impression that [her] condition was life threatening. It never crossed my mind that she was in danger of dying. When she died were just not prepared for it.”

In a What’s App message to a colleague after D died Lucy Letby said “We had such a rubbish night. Our job is just far too sad sometimes.” And later to same colleague “We lost [D].”

The colleague replied “What ! But she was improving, what happened ?” “I can’t believe you were on again. You are having such a hard time.”

3 days after Child D died Lucy Letby searched for the names of her parents on Facebook.

4 days after D died Ms Letby messaged a colleague saying “I can’t talk about it [the deaths at the unit]. I can’t stop crying. I just need to get it out of my system.”

In October 2015 (4 months after D died) Lucy Letby made a Facebook search for the name of the baby’s father on a Saturday tea time.

"In October 2015 (4 months after D died) Lucy Letby made a Facebook search for the name of the baby’s father on a Saturday tea time."

I wonder if this search on FB was around the times of any of the other alleged offences?

 

[Sundial]

"In October 2015 (4 months after D died) Lucy Letby made a Facebook search for the name of the baby’s father on a Saturday tea time."

I wonder if this search on FB was around the times of any of the other alleged offences?

Wasn’t it agreed earlier, she wasn’t the baby’s designated nurse, so again, without building those relationships and supporting the parents as the names nurse; this makes no sense to me; specifically the father.

 

[merrypason]

"In October 2015 (4 months after D died) Lucy Letby made a Facebook search for the name of the baby’s father on a Saturday tea time."

I wonder if this search on FB was around the times of any of the other alleged offences?

There was incidents on 27th Sept and 23rd October

Child H - attempted murder

Child I - murder (bolus of air in NG tube. With 3 previous attempts)

 

[MsBetsy]

This bit here; fourth child, where her colleague says “I can’t believe you were on again”.. I’m just sat here thinking the same thing tbh. The case with child D, I cannot make any sense of it. It will be interesting to hear the statements from doctors and other reports.

Four babies in June, including Baby D. And that occurred after her colleague's comment about it being odd that 3 babies had died, all under similar circumstances?

 

[LadyEdgeworth]

I’m surprised she wasn’t questioning any kind of odd link between cases A-D herself, I find it difficult to understand why she wasn’t questioning it/worried. Four cases in already and i just see some kind of brush off about it in the discussion with the colleague. If I was having that kind of conversation with my colleague after 4 similar deaths alone I would start to raise questions, it’s quite uncomfortable IMO

I have to agree, and this has been something I’ve been thinking the whole time, why on earth wasn’t she questioning these things? As one of the most senior nurses why wasn’t she asking why was this happening, making connections and asking if standards of care had slipped and not simply brushing them off as ‘fate’. If a baby was dying or collapsing on most of my shifts I’d be wanting answers as to why.

 

[arrogantcat]

“Mum tells jury about a time before D died when Lucy #Letby was the only nurse in the room when she and her husband went to see D. Mum says Ms Letby was “sort of hovering by the incubator but not doing much. She sort of just was watching us.”

This is interesting in the context of comments here suggesting that LL should never have left the side of babies she was assigned to and that it was unusual behaviour for her to be assisting colleagues and engaging with other infants.

Here, it sounds like her staying at the baby’s bedside is also observed as being an odd behaviour.

Perhaps an example of how, through the lens of suspicion, all actions can start to look suspicious.

A very interesting day of testimony and evidence! I wish we were getting more in-depth coverage.

 

[WaxLyrical]

“Mum tells jury about a time before D died when Lucy #Letby was the only nurse in the room when she and her husband went to see D. Mum says Ms Letby was “sort of hovering by the incubator but not doing much. She sort of just was watching us.”

This is interesting in the context of comments here suggesting that LL should never have left the side of babies she was assigned to and that it was unusual behaviour for her to be assisting colleagues and engaging with other infants.

Here, it sounds like her staying at the baby’s bedside is also observed as being an odd behaviour.

Perhaps an example of how, through the lens of suspicion, all actions can start to look suspicious.

A very interesting day of testimony and evidence! I wish we were getting more in-depth coverage.

Agree. She was responsible for two babies in that room, I would expect her to ‘hover around’ while non-hospital staff were present.

 

[Tortoise]

"In October 2015 (4 months after D died) Lucy Letby made a Facebook search for the name of the baby’s father on a Saturday tea time."

I wonder if this search on FB was around the times of any of the other alleged offences?

For October I have noted -

5 Oct - facebook searches for mother of Baby I, father of twins E&F, and mother of Baby H
13 Oct - 2nd alleged attempted murder Baby I
14 Oct - 3rd ditto
22 Oct - 4th ditto
23 Oct - alleged murder Baby I

 

[Tortoise]

Four babies in June, including Baby D. And that occurred after her colleague's comment about it being odd that 3 babies had died, all under similar circumstances?

No, that message was after Baby D's death

 

[kittythehare]

For October I have noted -

5 Oct - facebook searches for mother of Baby I, father of twins E&F, and mother of Baby H
13 Oct - 2nd alleged attempted murder Baby I
14 Oct - 3rd ditto
22 Oct - 4th ditto
23 Oct - alleged murder Baby I

I'm overwhelmed now!

 

[merrypason]

“Mum tells jury about a time before D died when Lucy #Letby was the only nurse in the room when she and her husband went to see D. Mum says Ms Letby was “sort of hovering by the incubator but not doing much. She sort of just was watching us.”

This is interesting in the context of comments here suggesting that LL should never have left the side of babies she was assigned to and that it was unusual behaviour for her to be assisting colleagues and engaging with other infants.

Here, it sounds like her staying at the baby’s bedside is also observed as being an odd behaviour.

Perhaps an example of how, through the lens of suspicion, all actions can start to look suspicious.

A very interesting day of testimony and evidence! I wish we were getting more in-depth coverage.

Because it wasn't her patient, she wasn't responsible for the treatment as such, and she was making the parents feel uncomfortable by not doing anything. The difference with the other cases is, the parents were not around - so it was just on her to make sure they were ok.

I'd feel creeped out being 'watched' by a nurse who wasn't actually doing anything, wouldn't you?

ETA: also it's not our lense of suspicion. It's the parents' opinion. We don't know what she was doing or how she was behaving to pass comment. It's not like anyone said "oh she was hovering, suspicious". Just going off the mum's comments on how she felt.

 

[Sundial]

I have to agree, and this has been something I’ve been thinking the whole time, why on earth wasn’t she questioning these things? As one of the most senior nurses why wasn’t she asking why was this happening, making connections and asking if standards of care had slipped and not simply brushing them off as ‘fate’. If a baby was dying or collapsing on most of my shifts I’d be wanting answers as to why.

Completely agree. I would be extremely upset those poor little lives, and I would be looking to find out *what* was the cause of that. I struggle to see why she appears not to with the level of skill and training she had.

 

[Tortoise]

Because it wasn't her patient, she wasn't responsible for the treatment as such, and she was making the parents feel uncomfortable by not doing anything. The difference with the other cases is, the parents were not around - so it was just on her to make sure they were ok.

I'd feel creeped out being 'watched' by a nurse who wasn't actually doing anything, wouldn't you?

The mum said it was at 7pm, said she must have glanced at the clock to remember the time, and LL's door swipe showed she turned up for her shift at 7.26pm.

I know she said she recognised her from articles in the papers but either she's remembering the time from a different event and mixed it up in her memory, or it might not have been LL. Or maybe LL came into the room after mum and dad were already in there?

edited to add quotes:

"He asks about the 7pm neonatal unit visit on June 21.

The mother says she went there with her husband. She recalls 7pm as she 'must have looked at the clock'.

The judge, Mr Justice Goss, asks for clarification.

The mother said she would not have known the name of Lucy Letby at the time, but would after seeing her picture after she had been arrested.

Swipe data showed Lucy Letby arrived at the neonatal unit at 7.26pm."

LIVE: Lucy Letby trial, Thursday, November 3