UK - Nurse Lucy Letby Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #6

[kittythehare]

Completely agree. I would be extremely upset those poor little lives, and I would be looking to find out *what* was the cause of that. I struggle to see why she appears not to with the level of skill and training she had.

She is being tried for murder.
If the prosecution is successful,, she knows why.
I think that would render her conversations to the gaslighting category, if she is guilty as charged.
Perhaps she was merely trying to figure out what other people knew or if they had become suspicious at all.
'overwhelming' sepsis to meningitis.

 

[Sundial]

For October I have noted -

5 Oct - facebook searches for mother of Baby I, father of twins E&F, and mother of Baby H
13 Oct - 2nd alleged attempted murder Baby I
14 Oct - 3rd ditto
22 Oct - 4th ditto
23 Oct - alleged murder Baby I

Again, here she is searching the father of the twins E&F (as with baby D, also searching for the father).

 

[merrypason]

So for Baby D

• On 22 June she texts colleague to say it's "overwhelming sepsis" and they need to check if he had been enough antibiotics for it
• On 23 June she texts colleague to say think think it's meningitis, and asks her if they did a lumbar puncture (presumably to test for meningitis). Also says baby had been given enough antibiotics (presume means not septic)
• On 30 June she texts colleague
  She added: “Well [Child C] was tiny obviously compromised in utero, [Child D] septic. It’s [Child A] I can’t get my head around

I'm confused, why was she still talking about sepsis so confidently when she told colleague a week previously that the antibiotics were enough, and meningitis was being considered.

Will be very curious to know who else was talking about sepsis, meningitis and then sepsis again.

ETA: Also why does she know more about D's investigations than his designated nurse??

 

[Tortoise]

4:24pm

The colleague replies: "Yeah, just would treatment sooner have made a difference."
Letby asks her colleague if Child D had a lumbar puncture.
The colleague replies she was not sure it ever got done, given that the baby girl was ill and had been on CPAP.
She adds her gas reading was "appalling" when she first came through to the unit.

4:25pm

Letby, in her response, says: "I think we did what we could."
She then refers to the condition of the mother of Child D.
The court hears at 9.51pm on June 25, Letby searched for both the parents' names of Child D on Facebook.

4:36pm

Towards the end of June, Letby sent a message to a colleague: "Work has been awful."
The colleague responds: "Oh dear. Staffing probe?"
Letby, in her response, says: "We have had three unexpected deaths," adding the unit is "full".
She adds: "What I have seen has really hit me tonight."
The colleague asks: "Have you worked today?"
Letby: "No, been off since Wednesday morning and now it has all hit me."
The colleague asks if Letby tries "talking to a proper counsellor".
Letby replies that she does not think she can.
The colleague: "Why not?"
Letby: "I can't talk about it now...I can't stop crying...I just need to get it out of my system."
The colleague advises Letby to think carefully what to do, before adding: "Maybe you need to take time off."
Letby: "Work is always my priority," adding she had not cried about the incidents until then.

LIVE: Lucy Letby trial, Thursday, November 3

 

[JosieJo]

4:24pm

The colleague replies: "Yeah, just would treatment sooner have made a difference."
Letby asks her colleague if Child D had a lumbar puncture.
The colleague replies she was not sure it ever got done, given that the baby girl was ill and had been on CPAP.
She adds her gas reading was "appalling" when she first came through to the unit.

4:25pm

Letby, in her response, says: "I think we did what we could."
She then refers to the condition of the mother of Child D.
The court hears at 9.51pm on June 25, Letby searched for both the parents' names of Child D on Facebook.

4:36pm

Towards the end of June, Letby sent a message to a colleague: "Work has been awful."
The colleague responds: "Oh dear. Staffing probe?"
Letby, in her response, says: "We have had three unexpected deaths," adding the unit is "full".
She adds: "What I have seen has really hit me tonight."
The colleague asks: "Have you worked today?"
Letby: "No, been off since Wednesday morning and now it has all hit me."
The colleague asks if Letby tries "talking to a proper counsellor".
Letby replies that she does not think she can.
The colleague: "Why not?"
Letby: "I can't talk about it now...I can't stop crying...I just need to get it out of my system."
The colleague advises Letby to think carefully what to do, before adding: "Maybe you need to take time off."
Letby: "Work is always my priority," adding she had not cried about the incidents until then.

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Thursday, November 3

The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more,…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

 

[Tortoise]

Even LL texted that the deaths were unexpected.

 

[kittythehare]

Disturbing.

 

[merrypason]

This is all even more confusing with so many inconsistencies.

Baby D died on 21 June

Towards the end of June (Date not specified) she messages:
"We have had three unexpected deaths,"
"No, been off since Wednesday morning and now it has all hit me."

Now according to the shift pattern they shared today, we know she worked 27 and 28 June (which is Sat and Sun)

So I calculate the date she talked about the unexpected deaths was 24-26 June (Wed, Thu, Fri) as she said she was off from Wed towards the end of June

But then on 30 June, she is surprised her colleague thinks deaths are unusual and has reasons for all of them?

What changed her mind from "unexpected" on 24-26 June to not thinking them odd on 30 June?

Her colleague said: “There’s something odd about that night and the other three that went so suddenly.”

Letby asked: “What do you mean? Odd that we lost three and in different circumstances?”

The colleague replied: “Were they that different? Ignore me, I’m speculating.”

Letby said: “Well (Child C) was tiny, obviously compromised in utero. (Child D) septic. It’s (Child A) I can’t get my head round.”

 

[ShireChe]

This is all even more confusing with so many inconsistencies.

Baby D died on 21 June

Towards the end of June (Date not specified) she messages:
"We have had three unexpected deaths,"
"No, been off since Wednesday morning and now it has all hit me."

Now according to the shift pattern they shared today, we know she worked 27 and 28 June (which is Sat and Sun)

So I calculate the date she talked about the unexpected deaths was 24-26 June (Wed, Thu, Fri) as she said she was off from Wed towards the end of June

But then on 30 June, she is surprised her colleague thinks deaths are unusual and has reasons for all of them?

What changed her mind from "unexpected" on 24-26 June to not thinking them odd on 30 June?

Her colleague said: “There’s something odd about that night and the other three that went so suddenly.”

Letby asked: “What do you mean? Odd that we lost three and in different circumstances?”

The colleague replied: “Were they that different? Ignore me, I’m speculating.”

Letby said: “Well (Child C) was tiny, obviously compromised in utero. (Child D) septic. It’s (Child A) I can’t get my head round.”

Does anyone know what the original cause of death was given as for baby D?

 

[kittythehare]

This is all even more confusing with so many inconsistencies.

Baby D died on 21 June

Towards the end of June (Date not specified) she messages:
"We have had three unexpected deaths,"
"No, been off since Wednesday morning and now it has all hit me."

Now according to the shift pattern they shared today, we know she worked 27 and 28 June (which is Sat and Sun)

So I calculate the date she talked about the unexpected deaths was 24-26 June (Wed, Thu, Fri) as she said she was off from Wed towards the end of June

But then on 30 June, she is surprised her colleague thinks deaths are unusual and has reasons for all of them?

What changed her mind from "unexpected" on 24-26 June to not thinking them odd on 30 June?

Her colleague said: “There’s something odd about that night and the other three that went so suddenly.”

Letby asked: “What do you mean? Odd that we lost three and in different circumstances?”

The colleague replied: “Were they that different? Ignore me, I’m speculating.”

Letby said: “Well (Child C) was tiny, obviously compromised in utero. (Child D) septic. It’s (Child A) I can’t get my head round.”

Was there not a week in Ibiza with a death/alleged murder immediately before and another immediately on her return?
I thought that was in June? Does anybody remember? I'm trying to see if context iis relevant to your post? My head seems to recall 22nd as being the return death date?

Editing to add rota again cos head fried.
The first evidence shown to the court is Lucy Letby's shift patterns for June 2015.

It shows which days Letby was on 'long day' shifts, and 'night' shifts.

She worked long day shifts on June 2, 4, 17, 19, 27 and 28.

She worked night shifts on June 8, 9, 13, 14, 21, 22 and 23.

Child A died on the night of June 8-9, and Child B had a non-fatal collapse on June 9-10.

Child C died on the night of June 13-14.

Child D died on the night of June 21-22.

 

[Sundial]

Was there not a week in Ibiza with a death/alleged murder immediately before and another immediately on her return?
I thought that was in June? Does anybody remember? I'm trying to see if context iis relevant to your post? My head seems to recall 22nd as being the return death date?

Editing to add rota again cos head fried.
The first evidence shown to the court is Lucy Letby's shift patterns for June 2015.

It shows which days Letby was on 'long day' shifts, and 'night' shifts.

She worked long day shifts on June 2, 4, 17, 19, 27 and 28.

She worked night shifts on June 8, 9, 13, 14, 21, 22 and 23.

Child A died on the night of June 8-9, and Child B had a non-fatal collapse on June 9-10.

Child C died on the night of June 13-14.

Child D died on the night of June 21-22.

I’m sure I read somewhere too there was a death almost on return from holiday yes. It was mentioned (still trying to find the source) somewhere I think at the start of the trial that the period where she was on holiday they didn’t have any instances such as these charges. It may well have been June and the holiday in Ibiza was definitely discussed in one of the previous threads (which I can’t seem to find *where*) if anyone can dig it out?

 

[Tortoise]

Does anyone know what the original cause of death was given as for baby D?

from opening statements pneumonia with acute lung injury

"Medical expert Dr Dewi Evans, the prosecution says, observed that a child "exhibiting a window of near recovery on two occasions followed by another collapse was not consistent with the fatal evolution of antenatal pneumonia."

 

[Tortoise]

Was there not a week in Ibiza with a death/alleged murder immediately before and another immediately on her return?
I thought that was in June? Does anybody remember? I'm trying to see if context iis relevant to your post? My head seems to recall 22nd as being the return death date?

Editing to add rota again cos head fried.
The first evidence shown to the court is Lucy Letby's shift patterns for June 2015.

It shows which days Letby was on 'long day' shifts, and 'night' shifts.

She worked long day shifts on June 2, 4, 17, 19, 27 and 28.

She worked night shifts on June 8, 9, 13, 14, 21, 22 and 23.

Child A died on the night of June 8-9, and Child B had a non-fatal collapse on June 9-10.

Child C died on the night of June 13-14.

Child D died on the night of June 21-22.

holiday in Ibiza was in June 2016, between 15th and 23rd, but there was another holiday with her parents I think, I'm trying to find the reference we've heard in one of her texts.

found it -

"A text message at the end of June, from LL said she was 'nodding off' in a cinema. She then added: "I had a mini meltdown last night about what's happened at work..."I just need some time off with mum and dad."

and today's reference to time off too, in a text exchange on the day Baby D died -

"Letby, in her response, says: "Hmm well it's happened and that is it, got to carry on..." before referring to her planned time off."

 

[Tortoise]

Would it be unusual to refer to baby D's death as a case? I'm so used to using the word case on here that it has connotations for me as a criminal investigation, but perhaps it's normal in terms of patient deaths too. I'm not saying she thinks it's a criminal investigation, but might be thinking in those terms. Maybe I'm off on this.

about half an hour after coming off shift, she texted a colleague -


"Letby refers to Child D being "messed about a couple of times" and refers to a rash that "looked like overwhelming sepsis".

She adds that two members of staff said the circumstances "would be investigated".

The colleague replies: "Dad was very anxious all day." and adds, in relation to the investigation, "What the delay in treatment?"

Letby replies: "Just overall looking into the case.

"And reviewing what antibiotics she was on if sepsis."

LIVE: Lucy Letby trial, Thursday, November 3

 

[cuecard]

Would it be unusual to refer to baby D's death as a case? I'm so used to using the word case on here that it has connotations for me as a criminal investigation, but perhaps it's normal in terms of patient deaths too.

about half an hour after coming off shift, she texted a colleague -


"Letby refers to Child D being "messed about a couple of times" and refers to a rash that "looked like overwhelming sepsis".

She adds that two members of staff said the circumstances "would be investigated".

The colleague replies: "Dad was very anxious all day." and adds, in relation to the investigation, "What the delay in treatment?"

Letby replies: "Just overall looking into the case.

"And reviewing what antibiotics she was on if sepsis."

LIVE: Lucy Letby trial, Thursday, November 3

I find some of her wording about certain things in these texts really peculiar but it could just be the way she speaks and/or types and the way I am looking at it. It’s hard to know.

 

[kittythehare]

holiday in Ibiza was in June 2016, between 15th and 23rd, but there was another holiday with her parents I think, I'm trying to find the reference we've heard in one of her texts.

found it -

"A text message at the end of June, from LL said she was 'nodding off' in a cinema. She then added: "I had a mini meltdown last night about what's happened at work..."I just need some time off with mum and dad."

and today's reference to time off too, in a text exchange on the day Baby D died -

"Letby, in her response, says: "Hmm well it's happened and that is it, got to carry on..." before referring to her planned time off."

Thank you.

 

[Dotta]

Would it be unusual to refer to baby D's death as a case? I'm so used to using the word case on here that it has connotations for me as a criminal investigation, but perhaps it's normal in terms of patient deaths too. I'm not saying she thinks it's a criminal investigation, but might be thinking in those terms. Maybe I'm off on this.

about half an hour after coming off shift, she texted a colleague -


"Letby refers to Child D being "messed about a couple of times" and refers to a rash that "looked like overwhelming sepsis".

She adds that two members of staff said the circumstances "would be investigated".

The colleague replies: "Dad was very anxious all day." and adds, in relation to the investigation, "What the delay in treatment?"

Letby replies: "Just overall looking into the case.

"And reviewing what antibiotics she was on if sepsis."

LIVE: Lucy Letby trial, Thursday, November 3

I have a question.
Isn't it a doctor's task to present diagnosis and prescribe medicines (antibiotics, etc.)?

Why would the nurses talk about possible sepsis, or other conditions, etc.?

Nurses follow orders -
they are not doctors who identify the cause of a condition/illness and decide about treatment, no?

Moo

 

[kittythehare]

Would it be unusual to refer to baby D's death as a case? I'm so used to using the word case on here that it has connotations for me as a criminal investigation, but perhaps it's normal in terms of patient deaths too. I'm not saying she thinks it's a criminal investigation, but might be thinking in those terms. Maybe I'm off on this.

about half an hour after coming off shift, she texted a colleague -


"Letby refers to Child D being "messed about a couple of times" and refers to a rash that "looked like overwhelming sepsis".

She adds that two members of staff said the circumstances "would be investigated".

The colleague replies: "Dad was very anxious all day." and adds, in relation to the investigation, "What the delay in treatment?"

Letby replies: "Just overall looking into the case.

"And reviewing what antibiotics she was on if sepsis."

LIVE: Lucy Letby trial, Thursday, November 3

not unusual to call it a case but they're patients with adjectives other than 'the'.
'the' suggests distancing attempt.
And when one witnesses a sudden or any death, one knows the gender of the patient. IMO

 

[kittythehare]

I’m sure I read somewhere too there was a death almost on return from holiday yes. It was mentioned (still trying to find the source) somewhere I think at the start of the trial that the period where she was on holiday they didn’t have any instances such as these charges. It may well have been June and the holiday in Ibiza was definitely discussed in one of the previous threads (which I can’t seem to find *where*) if anyone can dig it out?

I had the wrong year!
Happened in 2016.
Scary it went on so long and though I know, I still keep getting shocked.
Even a single case is huge.

 

[annpats]

LL worked night shifts on June 8, 9, 13, 14, 21, 22 & 23.

Child A died on the night of June 8-9, and Child B had a non-fatal collapse on June 9-10.
Child C died on the night of June 13-14.
Child D died on the night of June 21-22.

So all the alleged murders happened when LL was on the night shift. Interesting.

It's obviously a lot quieter at night in hospitals, people wise.
No admin people, no clerical workers, very few visitors, very few doctors and consultants.

Fewer people to see what's going on, fewer people to see what you're doing. Less chance of being interrupted.

MOO.