UK - Nurse Lucy Letby Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #6

[Supernovae]

Editing to add rota again cos head fried.
The first evidence shown to the court is Lucy Letby's shift patterns for June 2015.

It shows which days Letby was on 'long day' shifts, and 'night' shifts.

She worked long day shifts on June 2, 4, 17, 19, 27 and 28.

She worked night shifts on June 8, 9, 13, 14, 21, 22 and 23.

Child A died on the night of June 8-9, and Child B had a non-fatal collapse on June 9-10.

Child C died on the night of June 13-14.

Child D died on the night of June 21-22.

This also resolves the question from the previous thread as to where she was on the 11th, and therefore couldn't have had anything to do with the air bubble on the scan on the 12th.

UK - Nurse Lucy Letby Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #5

What can she possibly say to counteract these allegations? THE TRUTH, you say. I don't think it would be as simple as you imagine. What can I say? Im a simple person and simplicity is my motto :)

www.websleuths.com

 

[JosieJo]

This also resolves the question from the previous thread as to where she was on the 11th, and therefore couldn't have had anything to do with the air bubble on the scan on the 12th.

UK - Nurse Lucy Letby Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #5

What can she possibly say to counteract these allegations? THE TRUTH, you say. I don't think it would be as simple as you imagine. What can I say? Im a simple person and simplicity is my motto :)

www.websleuths.com

Yes so Dr Evans didn't do the prosecution any favours that day ! Imo

 

[notsure]

Wow, what were the chances?!
Maybe it's the 'in thing' to say at the moment?
I, myself, have never heard the term before now.

"Overwhelming sepsis" is a commonly used medical term. Try typing it into Google, with the double quote marks, and see what comes up.

 

[kittythehare]

"Overwhelming sepsis" is a commonly used medical term. Try typing it into Google, with the double quote marks, and see what comes up.

what came up was actually meningitis.
But here we are.
Sepsis is by it's nature overwhelming.

 

[LadyEdgeworth]

Yes so Dr Evans didn't do the prosecution any favours that day ! Imo

I wonder why LL's defence didn't bring this up at cross examination, could have damaged his credibility right there on the stand as he was trying to do anyway. Perhaps they're going to bring it up later on, but I would think it would have been important to mention it at that time. Otherwise jury may not make the connection themselves, or may be less impactful later on when so far removed from Dr Evans evidence.

 

[kittythehare]

I wonder why LL's defence didn't bring this up at cross examination, could have damaged his credibility right there on the stand as he was trying to do anyway. Perhaps they're going to bring it up later on, but I would think it would have been important to mention it at that time. Otherwise jury may not make the connection themselves, or may be less impactful later on when so far removed from Dr Evans evidence.

Dr Evans opinion was from 2019.
This is what he actually said.

UK - Nurse Lucy Letby Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #5

What can she possibly say to counteract these allegations? THE TRUTH, you say. I don't think it would be as simple as you imagine. What can I say? Im a simple person and simplicity is my motto :)

www.websleuths.com

 

[LadyEdgeworth]

Dr Evans opinion was from 2019.
This is what he actually said.

UK - Nurse Lucy Letby Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #5

What can she possibly say to counteract these allegations? THE TRUTH, you say. I don't think it would be as simple as you imagine. What can I say? Im a simple person and simplicity is my motto :)

www.websleuths.com

Thank you for clarifying, I have been trying to keep track of timelines/dates but easy to mess up with just the sheer amount of information we have atm.

Myers was certainly pressing him hard on the stand regarding credibility

 

[Supernovae]

I wonder why LL's defence didn't bring this up at cross examination, could have damaged his credibility right there on the stand as he was trying to do anyway. Perhaps they're going to bring it up later on, but I would think it would have been important to mention it at that time. Otherwise jury may not make the connection themselves, or may be less impactful later on when so far removed from Dr Evans evidence.

I'm pretty sure they did, didn't they?

 

[kittythehare]

Thank you for clarifying, I have been trying to keep track of timelines/dates but easy to mess up with just the sheer amount of information we have atm.

Myers was certainly pressing him hard on the stand regarding credibility

to his own detriment, I would imagine.
Not sure how a jury would process those insults.

 

[LadyEdgeworth]

to his own detriment, I would imagine.
Not sure how a jury would process those insults.

Agreed, it must have been impactful for the jury to witness that happen and i think Myers came off worse from the exchange

Mr Myers said: "You just came up with that now to support the allegation. You are not independent at all."
Dr Evans replied: "Again, that's just insulting."

What is everyone thinking of Myers so far? I know we've got a lot more to see but I think he's certainly dropped a few clangers, the above for one, and a couple of instances he's asked about staffing issues and got a sharp rebuff. Currently unsure of what his strategy is at the moment

 

[notsure]

what came up was actually meningitis.
But here we are.
Sepsis is by it's nature overwhelming.

Did you type it in correctly with the punctuation? Used in thousands of medical journal articles. The first article that comes up is this: Overwhelming sepsis presenting as sudden unexpected death. - "Overwhelming sepsis presenting as sudden unexpected death."

 

[kittythehare]

Agreed, it must have been impactful for the jury to witness that happen and i think Myers came off worse from the exchange

Mr Myers said: "You just came up with that now to support the allegation. You are not independent at all."
Dr Evans replied: "Again, that's just insulting."

What is everyone thinking of Myers so far? I know we've got a lot more to see but I think he's certainly dropped a few clangers, the above for one, and a couple of instances he's asked about staffing issues and got a sharp rebuff. Currently unsure of what his strategy is at the moment

He has an amazing reputation.
I haven't a clue what he's at with his juvenile type tactics.
I never saw this before.

 

[kittythehare]

Did you type it in correctly with the punctuation? Used in thousands of medical journal articles. The first article that comes up is this: Overwhelming sepsis presenting as sudden unexpected death. - "Overwhelming sepsis presenting as sudden unexpected death."

I know what it means.

 

[notsure]

I know what it means.

Of course you do, but some posters were questioning if it was a commonly used term.

 

[LadyEdgeworth]

He has an amazing reputation.
I haven't a clue what he's at with his juvenile type tactics.
I never saw this before.

I did a quick google of him at the start of the trial and you're correct, he seems to have a great record and reputation.

Very odd indeed, I know he's not a medical expert, but he's asking questions he doesn't know the answer to and getting knocked back, we saw this against Dr Bohin as well

Recap of Oct 26

Mr Myers: "Would you agree the whole situation is sub-optimal at that moment?"

Dr Bohin: "No."

Mr Myers asks if the lack of fluids means the whole situation is sub-optimal for Child A.

Dr Bohin: "No."

Obviously much more to see and his plan may become much clearer over the coming months.

 

[Dcflag]

Agreed, it must have been impactful for the jury to witness that happen and i think Myers came off worse from the exchange

Mr Myers said: "You just came up with that now to support the allegation. You are not independent at all."
Dr Evans replied: "Again, that's just insulting."

What is everyone thinking of Myers so far? I know we've got a lot more to see but I think he's certainly dropped a few clangers, the above for one, and a couple of instances he's asked about staffing issues and got a sharp rebuff. Currently unsure of what his strategy is at the moment

I don’t know if it’s just because we’re reading snippets and it would be different to see and hear in person, but honestly he makes me feel offensive he just seems really quite rude and I’m not sure it’s necessary.

 

[notsure]

That text is the only time I've considered that maybe this was God complex. I don't know - if a lot of my patients died in a short span, I'd be trying to understand what could have gone wrong with their care - like all the other nurses and doctors were trying to understand. Not talking about fate. I can understand thinking it in her personal life but when you're in the job of saving lives, saying it about patients feels odd.

Also this sentence bothers me

"How do such sick babies get through and others get to [die] so unexpectedly?"

What does it mean 'get to'? 'Getting to do something' is normally something people want to do right? You wouldn't say, "you're so unlucky you get to go to prison". Why do the babies 'get to' die? Does she think they want that? Just odd.

I don't think we can assume the phrases quoted have necessarily been accurately reported. That phrase you mention is reported differently in this summary of the day: Lucy Letby told fellow nurse there was ‘element of fate’ in baby deaths.

In this the text is quoted as:
“But then sometimes I think how is it such sick babies get through and others die so suddenly and unexpectedly."

 

[Music2022]

I did a quick google of him at the start of the trial and you're correct, he seems to have a great record and reputation.

Very odd indeed, I know he's not a medical expert, but he's asking questions he doesn't know the answer to and getting knocked back, we saw this against Dr Bohin as well

Recap of Oct 26

Mr Myers: "Would you agree the whole situation is sub-optimal at that moment?"

Dr Bohin: "No."

Mr Myers asks if the lack of fluids means the whole situation is sub-optimal for Child A.

Dr Bohin: "No."

Obviously much more to see and his plan may become much clearer over the coming months.

I think it’s possible his experts will claim the care was sup optimal hence he expected to hear the same from Bohin.

 

[kittythehare]

Of course you do, but some posters were questioning if it was a commonly used term.

People just call it sepsis. Bad enough having it without having to explain it as well.
From a vague recollection, did the court note go something like LL had heard of a case described in these words from a colleague some time prior to baby's collapse and used the same term to describe a possible cause for baby's death?
I could well have picked that up wrong so somebody else is likely to know better.
I've also heard people in general throw sepsis into a long list of their medical complaints as if it was no more than a hiccup.

 

[LadyEdgeworth]

Live updates 04/11

Chester Standard seem to have a live thread for today, not sure what time we will start. I might be able to do updates today as boss is out of office