UK - Nurse Lucy Letby Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #9

[DianaWW]

2:35pm

On November 5, 2015, Letby searches for the mother of twins Child E and Child F at 11.41pm, then searched for the mother of Child G at 11.44pm and, in the same minute, a search for the mother of Child I.
Letby also searched for the mother of Child I at 11pm on May 29, 2016.

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Wednesday, January 25

The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more,…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

I wonder what made her search all three parents in succession. Baby G survived. They were not all her designated babies. So what linked them in her mind at this point in time?

 

[Tortoise]

Of course, but they are not infallible. If none of them have experience of something, it is unlikely to be the first conclusion they come to. I don't think anybody disagrees that this should have been discovered sooner, but I can unfortunately understand why it wasn't. MOO.

Actually, it might go against popular opinion, but I think Dr Jayaram should be commended for not leaving this alone and seeking out answers for a problem he could see which had already been closed by pathologists.

Causes of death attributed at the time -
Baby A - unascertained
Baby C - pneumonia
Baby D - pneumonia
Baby E - no post mortem but death certificate stated NEC

Baby A's mother had a blood disorder. One doctor speculated it might be this which had caused the death of baby A and the collapse of his twin sister baby B

Dr Beech's note at 2.50pm asked for an "urgent post-mortem" for Child A to look for signs of thrombosis, "as this may have implications for [Child B]".
Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Wednesday, October 19

This was ruled out by Professor Sally Kinsey who was consulted by police.



Dr Jayaram said -

"At that time we were being told that we shouldn’t be saying such things and not to make a fuss. I didn’t really have any hard evidence but I wish I’d been more courageous at the time.”

[...]

Dr Jayaram decided to check on Child K after he noticed a “coincidence between the unexplained deaths, serious collapses and the presence of Lucy Letby”.

My concerns about Lucy Letby were shut down, says TV doctor

MOO

 

[LadyEdgeworth]

3:19pm

The team at Liverpool had to wait until a bed became available at Chester before transfer was authorised on 'day 11', when Child I weighed 90g more than her birth weight, which "was good", as it was expected that babies would drop in weight in the days after birth.
"We expected [Child I] would continue to improve at Chester".

3:23pm

Upon Child I's return to Liverpool Women's Hospital, her blood gases and heart rate were "normal".
It was thought that Child I had suspected sepsis rather than NEC, and a course of antibiotics began to cover for both possibilities.
Child I was kept nil by mouth but was "stable" on the night of September 6.
There was a "mechnical obstruction" in the ET tube on September 7 and Child I was re-incubated. After this she "had normal gases and improved very well".

3:25pm

Feeds were gradually increased and the course of antibiotics ended after five days.

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Wednesday, January 25

The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more,…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

 

[Tortoise]

This is what I mean by difficult to follow…
These updates go from 1/10 to Facebook searches on 5/10 (with no mention of what happened on 2/10, 3/10, 4/10. Then there’s mention of other Facebook searches (which are very enlightening imo, coincidentally searches for parents of children mentioned in this case) then minutes later it’s defense cross examining, so who was testifying before in those first 2 updates on this post? Or who was reading out this sequence of events. I know I’m blonde and can be easily confused but am I the only one who thinks this reporting is completely bonkers

It's the same sequence for each baby. The prosecution has to get a police officer in to introduce the electronic stuff, texts, facebook searches, LL's nursing notes into evidence. It's not missing out what happened medically to the babies on the dates in between, it's just the type of evidence that is being put in the trial record.

The order is -
Parent's evidence
Electronic evidence
Medical evidence - doctors and nurses who treated the babies apart from LL
Medical expert opinions after all of that, to round off each case.

 

[LadyEdgeworth]

3:32pm

Child I continued to tolerate and build up feeds, which was a sign the baby girl did not have NEC.
The expectations were that Child I would return to the Countess of Chester Hospital and continue to improve.

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Wednesday, January 25

The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more,…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

 

[Becky53]

How do you even remember parents names 7 months on, unless you've got them on your notes app or something. Plus to search for the mother of baby E & F, G and then I all within a minute shows she's grouping them together in her mind, and also searching them in chronological order..

I’m not justifying her searches (I find it inappropriate) but I recall when you’ve use the search facility on Farcebook it does come up with your previous search history so you can just click on whoever you’ve searched for before rather than type in a name.

 

[LadyEdgeworth]

I’m not justifying her searches (I find it inappropriate) but I recall when you’ve use the search facility on Farcebook it does come up with your previous search history so you can just click on whoever you’ve searched for before rather than type in a name.

Correct but that shows your last 7-8 searches (I've just looked at mine) so that's assuming she's searched nothing else over the 7 month period that would fill up those recently searched slots. They don't stay in 'recent searches' for that long

 

[Sweeper2000]

Correct but that shows your last 7-8 searches (I've just looked at mine) so that's assuming she's searched nothing else over the 7 month period that would fill up those recently searched slots. They don't stay in 'recent searches' for that long

i think that depends on the software you use, android or apple etc. I think there is a permanent memory in the searches stored and that may suggest the results of past searches in Relation to the letters used. Think so but not sure. The algorithm may suggest names as well.

 

[Becky53]

Correct but that shows your last 7-8 searches (I've just looked at mine) so that's assuming she's searched nothing else over the 7 month period that would fill up those recently searched slots. They don't stay in 'recent searches' for that long

Thanks for clarifying.

 

[Becky53]

i think that depends on the software you use, android or apple etc. I think there is a permanent memory in the searches stored and that may suggest the results of past searches in Relation to the letters used. Think so but not sure. The algorithm may suggest names as well.

Thanks also

 

[Tortoise]

"After Child I was pronounced dead, her parents were moved to a private room at visiting time. They then agreed to bathe their daughter’s body.

She said: “Lucy brought the bath in. She said she could come in and take some photos which we could keep. While we were bathing her, Lucy came back in. She was smiling and kept going on about how she was present at the first bath and how [Child I] had loved it.

“I wished she would just stop talking. Eventually she realised and stopped. It was not something we wanted to hear. I remember it was Lucy who packaged up [Child I’s] belongings to go home.”

Lucy Letby: nurse offered to take photos of baby she had killed, court hears

 

[Tortoise]

"Earlier in her statement, she also described how she had never had "much to do with" Ms Letby.
"She always appeared reserved and never interacted with the other parents," Child I's mother added."

Lucy Letby: Nurse murdered baby on fourth attempt, court told

 

[Tortoise]

"I asked Dr Gibbs how long had they been doing this, to which he said 20 minutes. I could see every time they were pumping her stats would go up, but when they stopped she flatlined every time.
"I remember thinking they can't keep doing it. I said to Dr Gibbs 'You can't do any more'."

[...]

Dr Gibbs mentioned about having an autopsy.
"I said I didn't want one because I wanted her leaving alone.
"He said I didn't have a say because her death was unexpected and the results would be needed to clear the hospital."

'Smiling' Lucy Letby offered to take photos of baby she had murdered, court told

 

[JosieJo]

Exactly. I find this particularly damning. More damning than the note imo

I agree the constant grouping together of Facebook searches of parents involved in this trial is very damning

The defence cross examined the tech specialist but did not ask if any other unrelated families were searched for during these flurries of searching

 

[Legal]

Full disclosure too: I am VERY close to my parents, as in speak to them every single day, go out to the pub with them, sleep round their houses still close lol and not an only child so the relationship may be different but she seems very very close to hers. Being so upset about moving away, crying over Christmas etc. But again this might be totally normal to some people and I might be the weirdo for thinking it's weird!

it may be that she felt resentful that she couldn't flee the nest so to speak. If her parents were upset at her simply moving from Hereford to Chester, then New Zealand would be a definite no. As an only child it must be difficult if you want to travel overseas. I have travelled extensively and lived abroad for many years but luckily I have a sibling so didn't feel too guilty about it. However, in the end, I came back as most people do, because of elderly parents.

 

[mart321]

Correct but that shows your last 7-8 searches (I've just looked at mine) so that's assuming she's searched nothing else over the 7 month period that would fill up those recently searched slots. They don't stay in 'recent searches' for that long

Also what was Facebook like on a mobile phone in 2016. Certainly nowhere near as intuitive as it is in 2023

 

[Tortoise]

LL's Facebook searches

8 Jun 2015 - Twin Baby A - murder charge - designated nurse
9 Jun 2015 – 9.58am - Facebook mother of A&B
10 Jun 2015 - Twin Baby B - attempted murder charge – not designated nurse
10 Jun 2015 – 11.31pm - Facebook mother of A&B
Handover sheet for Baby B found at LL’s home during police search
14 Jun 2015 - Baby C - murder charge – not designated nurse
14 Jun 2015 – 3.32pm - Facebook parents Baby C
22 Jun 2015 - Baby D - murder charge - not designated nurse
25 Jun 2015 – 9.50pm – Facebook mum of A&B
25 Jun 2015 – 9.51pm – Facebook parents of Baby D
abt 8 Jul 2015 – Baby B went home.
4 Aug 2015 - Twin Baby E - murder charge - designated nurse
5 Aug 2015 - Twin Baby F - attempted murder charge - not designated nurse
6 Aug 2015 – 7.58pm - Facebook mother of E&F
10 Aug 2015 – F went home.
23 Aug 2015 – Facebook mother of E&F
2 Sep 2015 – Facebook mum of A&B
7 Sep 2015 - Baby G - attempted murder charge – not designated nurse
9 Sep 2015 – Facebook parents of A&B
14 Sep 2015 – Facebook mother E&F
19 Sep 2015 – LL asks her colleague how A&B’s parents are. She doesn’t search them again after this.
21 Sep 2015 - Baby G - 2 x attempted murder charges - designated nurse
21 Sep 2015 – Facebook parents Baby G
21 Sep 2015 – minutes later Facebook mother of E&F
21 Sep 2015 – minutes later Facebook another mother
26 Sep 2015 - Baby H - attempted murder charge - designated nurse
27 Sep 2015 - Baby H - attempted murder charge - not designated nurse
30 Sep 2015 - Baby I - alleged attempted murder - designated nurse
Oct 2015 – (either 3rd, 10th, 17th, 24th or 31st) Facebook father of Baby D
5 Oct 2015 – abt 1.16am – Facebook mother of Baby I
5 Oct 2015 – abt 1.17am – Facebook father of E&F
5 Oct 2015 – 1.18am - Facebook mother of H
13 Oct 2015 - Baby I - alleged attempted murder - not designated nurse
14 Oct 2015 - Baby I - alleged attempted murder - designated nurse
22 Oct 2015 - Baby I - alleged attempted murder - not designated nurse
23 Oct 2015 - Baby I - murder charge - (same) night – not designated nurse
After Baby I’s death LL sent a sympathy card to Baby I’s parents and kept a photo of it on her phone
5 Nov 2015 – 11.41pm - Facebook mother E&F
5 Nov 2015 – 11.44pm – Facebook mother of G
5 Nov 2015 – 11.44pm – Facebook mother of I
27 Nov 2015 - Baby J - attempted murder charge – not designated nurse
Nov 2015 – Facebook parents Baby J
7 Dec 2015 – Facebook mother of E&F
25 Dec 2015 – 11.26pm - Facebook mother of E&F
Jan 2016 – Facebook mother of E&F
10 Jan 2016 – Facebook mother of E&F last time
17 Feb 2016 - Baby K - attempted murder charge - not designated nurse
9 Apr 2016 - Twin Baby L - attempted murder charge – unclear whether designated nurse
9 Apr 2016 - Twin Baby M - attempted murder charge – unclear whether designated nurse
Handwritten log of drugs for Baby M during his collapse found at LL’s house and she had noted his collapse in her diary.
29 May 2016 – 11pm – Facebook – mother of I
3 Jun 2016 - Baby N - attempted murder charge – not designated nurse
15 Jun 2016 - Baby N - 2 x attempted murder charges - designated nurse
23 Jun 2016 - Triplet Baby O - murder charge - designated nurse
24 Jun 2016 - Triplet Baby P - murder charge – designated nurse – but care transferred – non-designated
25 Jun 2016 - Baby Q - attempted murder charge - designated nurse
Handover sheet for morning of 25 Jun 2016 for Baby Q found at LL’s home
Jul 2016 – LL removed from clinical setting
23 Jun 2017 – anniversary of Baby O’s death – Facebook surname of Baby O
Apr 2018 – Facebook parents of Baby K
3 Jul 2018 – LL’s first arrest.

 

[Tortoise]

On the evening of September 30 2015, Letby responded to a text message from a colleague, Dr Alison Ventress, who was planning to travel to New Zealand, the court heard.

Dr Ventress wrote: “Defo come to NZ then! I could use a friendly face!!”

Letby replied: “Haha not brave enough to up & leave everything.

“I couldn’t leave my parents. They would be completely devastated. Find it hard enough being away from me now and it’s only 100 miles.”

Dr Ventress responded: “Aww where are they based?”

Letby said: “Hereford. I came here to uni & didn’t go back. They hate it & I feel very guilty for staying here sometimes but it’s what I want.

“Families are tough aren’t they!”

The next day she texted her mother, Susan: “Guess who will be coming home for Christmas *advertiser censored*”

Susan Letby replied: “That’s fab I could cry x”

Letby said: “Doesn’t take much! Nights 21st 22nd 23rd then Nights new years eve & day. Don’t tell Dad yet though xx”

Susan Letby said: “Ok he’ll be pleased, also Jane x”

Nurse Lucy Letby ‘offered to take photos of baby soon after murdering her on fourth attempt’

 

[Becci]

I honestly wouldn't be good doing this for jury service.
My brain would be done by a wk tops.
I reckon nurses & doctors who use english language would have a very good head start to be on the jury.
Others who have no medical knowledge are threw in at the deep end to say the least.

 

[Anxala]

It's the same sequence for each baby. The prosecution has to get a police officer in to introduce the electronic stuff, texts, facebook searches, LL's nursing notes into evidence. It's not missing out what happened medically to the babies on the dates in between, it's just the type of evidence that is being put in the trial record.

The order is -
Parent's evidence
Electronic evidence
Medical evidence - doctors and nurses who treated the babies apart from LL
Medical expert opinions after all of that, to round off each case.

Thanks for that @Tortoise . A lot of the reporting does come across as more than a bit chaotic and disordered but that makes more sense of things.

God though, that poor jury. It certainly has its work cut out for it, trying to keep track and on top of everything with the daily bombardment of new info it's obliged to absorb. So much mental filing! I'm exhausted even thinking about it.