GUILTY UK - Nurse Lucy Letby, murder of babies, 7 Guilty of murder verdicts; 7 Guilty of attempted murder; 2 Not Guilty of attempted; 6 hung re attempted #31

[cuecard]

Sounds like she may have taken after her mother in her childlike ways - I could understand maybe a mother writing a letter on behalf of her daughter's pets if said daughter was a young child, but for an adult daughter? JMO

See I don’t find the cards from pets overly strange - my parents usually give me a card from my dogs with their pics on it - but I did find LL came across at times as quite, maybe immature is the incorrect word, but younger than her age. I remember thinking that at the time when the notes were revealed, like putting love hearts around a guys name, love quotes, writing her pets names etc it reminded me of something a teenager would do and then the teddy underneath her duvet as well. It all felt quite teenager-ish.

 

[Anxala]

I did not get from the article, that the author had no opinion about LL's guilt or innocence. There were several times in the article that she implied that the prosecution proved their case.

To me, the point of the article was that the author couldn't figure out who LL really was or WHY she did this. That is how I interpreted it anyway. JMO

Yes, exactly that, that despite everything, LL still remained 'elusive'.

 

[Nali87]

I did not get from the article, that the author had no opinion about LL's guilt or innocence. There were several times in the article that she implied that the prosecution proved their case.

To me, the point of the article was that the author couldn't figure out who LL really was or WHY she did this. That is how I interpreted it anyway. JMO

I also found it interesting that Lucy told Dawn and her other friends who are sticking by her NOT to come to the trial. I wonder if they even realize that this may have been a tactic to keep them in the dark.

 

[notsure]

She wasn't there for the vast majority of the trial.

She states: "I've spent ten months in the presence of Lucy Letby."

 

[Powermjp]

One thing about people guessing a motive is we are coming at it from a non psychopath viewpoint.

So it's hard to get inside someone's head which is wired so different to the norm.

Psychopathy is linked to thrill-seeking, impaired capacities for empathy and remorse.

People with extreme variants of primary psychopathy often have all the traits of the "Dark Tetrad," including Machiavellianism, narcissism, and sadism.

In my opinion she may have had some sadistic pleasure in causing pain.

And then tricking everyone thinking she's smart enough to get away with it. She had a pleasure in thinking she was smart to "get away with it" She would manipulate staff etc.

She seemed very good at manipulation.

She imo, got some sort of pleasure in interaction with the parents straight afterwards, which imo is sadism again.

 

[kittythehare]

More interesting information in this article. It seems when she was relegated to the admin role, it gave her a chance to cosy up to senior management. Was she just manipulating them, or were there other reasons they were so keen to put themselves on the line for a band 5 nurse, believing her over 7 experienced consultants? The whole thing baffles me tbh!


September 2016

Letby was told about the consultants’ concerns by her RCN representative and submitted a formal grievance about her removal from ward duties.

HSJ understands the consultants have alleged that Letby was able to develop relationships with senior trust executives whilst working in the patient safety team, which may have clouded their judgement.

The consultants have also claimed Mr Chambers at one point met Letby in a café. Mr Chambers said his only meetings with Letby were formal, but said there was one occasion when “she happened to be in the same coffee shop I was in with some senior colleagues…We said nothing other than hello. It is wrong to characterise such a brief and chance encounter as inappropriate”.

Revealed: How trust execs resisted concerns over Letby

Trust bosses questioned the integrity of doctors who first raised concerns about a nurse who has now been convicted of murdering seven babies, and forced the medics to apologise to her, an HSJ investigation has established.

www.hsj.co.uk

The verdict raises immediate questions for local, regional and national bodies, including:

• The actions of the Care Quality Commission, which inspected the services in early 2016 but rated children’s and maternity services as “good” (see timeline below)
• The findings of an external review by consultancy Facere Melius which was commissioned by the trust into its management and governance actions, which was said to be close to completion last year.

In September 2016, after Letby had been removed from ward duties, she submitted an internal grievance against the trust which was upheld. Documents seen by HSJ said the trust found her removal had been “orchestrated by the consultants with no hard evidence” and questioned whether the doctors were “honest and objective”.

HSJ has also seen a copy of an unpublished external review of the baby deaths that was completed in late 2016, which highlighted that four cases could not be explained and could benefit from a criminal-type investigation.

The report said the cases would “potentially benefit from local forensic review as to circumstances, personnel etc.”
!
No words

 

[Dotta]

It is interesting. If Judith was there for the whole trial, presumably she'd heard everything the jury had heard, yet she had no opinion as to her guilt or innocence.

This journalist didn't write about her opinion about GUILT or INNOCENCE.

But the enigma of the defendant, her character.

JMO as a non native speaker of English

 

[notsure]

This journalist didn't write about her opinion about GUILT or INNOCENCE.

But the enigma of the defendant, her character.

JMO as a non native speaker of English

I know - I've read the article

She quotes Letby's friend, Dawn: "The only way I'd ever believe that she's guilty is if she tells me she's guilty," she said.

The writer says "I was struck by Dawn's certainty, but my own mind was far less settled. Like Dawn, I needed to hear directly from the nurse herself."

Then, after 10 months in Letby's presence, she is no clearer about her. As she states at the end, it's all down to how the jury feel about her.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

One thing about people guessing a motive is we are coming at it from a non psychopath viewpoint.

So it's hard to get inside someone's head which is wired so different to the norm.

Psychopathy is linked to thrill-seeking, impaired capacities for empathy and remorse.

People with extreme variants of primary psychopathy often have all the traits of the "Dark Tetrad," including Machiavellianism, narcissism, and sadism.

In my opinion she may have had some sadistic pleasure in causing pain.

And then tricking everyone thinking she's smart enough to get away with it. She had a pleasure in thinking she was smart to "get away with it" She would manipulate staff etc.

She seemed very good at manipulation.

She imo, got some sort of pleasure in interaction with the parents straight afterwards, which imo is sadism again.

I agree with your points in general but in the case of LL I don't think we know enough to say that she was gaining pleasure from the hurt = the sadism, so much as she was gaining pleasure from the pay off = the intense situation and her centred in the middle.

The only way we would be able to determine that is to know a lot more about her.

The fact she callously disregarded human life and had no conscience about causing pain and death to a tiny vulnerable living being, that definitely positions her in the dark triad / tetrad.

 

[kittythehare]

This journalist didn't write about her opinion about GUILT or INNOCENCE.

But the enigma of the defendant, her character.

JMO as a non native speaker of English

Have you got a link handy, i've read all the posts on the subject but i have no idea what everyone is discussing?
Thanks Dotta, you are the encyclopaedia .

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

This journalist didn't write about her opinion about GUILT or INNOCENCE.

But the enigma of the defendant, her character.

JMO as a non native speaker of English

Ah @Dotta you're here!

I was thinking about you and wondering when you found out about the verdict. As you had posted you were going out on a bike ride.

 

[Dotta]

Have you got a link handy, i've read all the posts on the subject but i have no idea what everyone is discussing?
Thanks Dotta, you are the encyclopaedia .

Post number 952
It was not my link

 

[JosieJo]

Killer nurse created 'crisis situations' to attract married colleague

The nurse and the medic went on day trips to London, met up for walks and meals together in their free time away from the hospital, and swapped hundreds of messages on Facebook,

www.dailymail.co.uk

Has this article been discussed yet? I know we know some of these things but it was an interesting read. JMO

So there were other messages between them not shown to the jury.
She searched his spouse
Also he was not questioned about the relationship,?

 

[IDK]

His family obviously don't know. He has appeared in court behind a screen.

You don’t think his wife ever figured it out? He may even have come clean with her, out of guilt, or a desire to save his marriage? Just thinking out loud here.

 

[d0lphin]

We can speculate in the reasons for killing / harming the babies and professionals can give the opinions but the only way we'll know for sure why she acted this way is if she talks. Does anyone think she may do so in the future?

 

[JerseyGirl]

New thread:

GUILTY - UK - Nurse Lucy Letby, murder of babies, 7 Guilty of murder verdicts; 7 Guilty of attempted murder; 2 Not Guilty of attempted; 6 hung re attempted #32

Sky News link: Healthcare worker arrested on suspicion of murdering eight babies Media, Maps & Timeline *NO DISCUSSION* thread Thread #1 Thread #2 Thread #3 Thread #4 Thread #5 Thread #6 Thread #7 Thread #8 Thread #9 Thread #10 Thread #11 Thread #12 Thread #13 Thread #14 Thread #15 Thread #16...

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