GUILTY UK - Nurse Lucy Letby, murder of babies, 7 Guilty of murder verdicts; 7 Guilty of attempted murder; 2 Not Guilty of attempted; 6 hung re attempted #32

[Moll]

Is there any way of reading this in full? Behind a paywall.

At first I felt sorry for Lucy Letby, but by the end of the trial I saw her for the murderer she is

It was difficult to accept that she could have done what she was accused of until the lengthy cross-examination started

www.telegraph.co.uk

I was driven to take up their free subscription offer. You just have to remember to cancel before they start charging you after 3 or 4 months (I forget which).

I wasn't much impressed with that article but there are some other good ones.

 

[marynnu]

I've been wondering. Did LL set out on her career with good intentions?
I wonder if she was inadvertently negligent over one infant (maybe towards the start of her career), and rather than speak up and admit her mistake, she panicked and could see her career and reputation going down the pan so kept quiet.
But then when she may have experienced sympathy and attention etc over the loss of a baby, she experienced an unexpected thrill? This could have been a trigger for her?
Gave her a sense of power, which she may not have experienced before to that degree.

I've wondered if she might have been OK had she chosen a different career. Maybe her friends are right and she was a normal, caring person before. Who knows.

 

[Anxala]

Is there any way of reading this in full? Behind a paywall.

At first I felt sorry for Lucy Letby, but by the end of the trial I saw her for the murderer she is

It was difficult to accept that she could have done what she was accused of until the lengthy cross-examination started

www.telegraph.co.uk

Honestly, it's really not saying anything new or insightful. Just more of the same thoughts/observations already expressed much more adroitly by others elsewhere.

 

[Stella123]

Thank you. I couldn't read it all before.

 

[Cuko]

If just one good thing could emerge from this monumental tragedy, it would be that the processes for whistle-blowing (and protection of whistleblowers) are fundamentally reviewed, revised and enshrined in law.

 

[marynnu]

If just one good thing could emerge from this monumental tragedy, it would be that the processes for whistle-blowing (and protection of whistleblowers) are fundamentally reviewed, revised and enshrined in law.

And in an ideal world get away from the despicable business model for the NHS, with senior managers just in it for themselves. In my dreams with this government.

 

[JosieJo]

Regarding Tony Chambers I do wonder if being a nurse himself played any part in which side he took during the grievance process

 

[Dotta]

Regarding Tony Chambers I do wonder if being a nurse himself played any part in which side he took during the grievance process

There is only ONE side.
This side is
PATIENT !!!!!

There is no place in healthcare for those who forget this elemental rule!!!

PRIMUM NON NOCERE

First, Do No Harm!

 

[DianaWW]

FYI. Post the link to any article with a paywall here and it will find an archived version that’s available to read for free.

https://archive.ph/

 

[Moll]

There is only ONE side.
This side is
PATIENT !!!!!

There is no place in healthcare for those who forget this elemental rule!!!

PRIMUM NON NOCERE

First, Do No Harm!

Of course you're right. The consultants were on the patients' side. Nurses would normally be too. There shouldn't be any difference.
But this particular management in this situation, while claiming to be doing that, did actually seem to be grossly partisan in favour of LL and it's fair to ask if management being former nurses played a part in that.

 

[Cuko]

There is only ONE side.
This side is
PATIENT !!!!!

There is no place in healthcare for those who forget this elemental rule!!!

PRIMUM NON NOCERE

First, Do No Harm!

One hundred percent!

 

[Dotta]

Of course you're right. The consultants were on the patients' side. Nurses would normally be too. There shouldn't be any difference.
But this particular management in this situation, while claiming to be doing that, did actually seem to be grossly partisan in favour of LL and it's fair to ask if management being former nurses played a part in that.

NHS bosses who failed to stop Lucy Letby have 'blood on their hands'

Consultants who raised concerns about Letby as far back as 2015 have said babies could have been saved if hospital management had listened and acted sooner.

www-dailymail-co-uk.cdn.ampproject.org

 

[Cuko]

FYI. Posting the link to any article with a paywall here and it will find an archived version that’s available to read for free.

https://archive.ph/

Brilliant, thanks!

 

[ColourPurple]

And in an ideal world get away from the despicable business model for the NHS, with senior managers just in it for themselves. In my dreams with this government.

The fact that Tony Chambers apparently wrote in a letter to consultants in 2018 that he had had to "balance the safety of babies and their families, the well-being of staff, and the reputation of the services". Just no! The safety of babies should be an absolute priority. It should never be something that you have to weigh up against the impact on the hospital's reputation FFS!

 

[cottonweaver]

Although I didn't follow any of the trial or threads, had to come onto Websleuths to say how flabbergasted and sickened I am, having read and listened to the news coverage these last few days. The cruelty just beggars belief. So depraved and yet her oldest friend claims that all LL's Hereford friends stand by her & believe her. ( BBC Panorama interview which I watched this morning)


Does anybody know if she received a full psychiatric assessment at any point ? ( I hear Munchausens BP speculated upon by a few commentators but don't know if there was anything concrete established for LL)

 

[marynnu]

Regarding Tony Chambers I do wonder if being a nurse himself played any part in which side he took during the grievance process

I wondered this too. Nurse blaming is very real, maybe he'd been witness to it in his career. But I just can't see why he was so entrenched. Even if the consultants had been mistaken they were still right to highlight that they thought LL was harming patients. They shouldn't have been forced to apologise, there was nothing to apologise for.

 

[JosieJo]

There is only ONE side.
This side is
PATIENT !!!!!

There is no place in healthcare for those who forget this elemental rule!!!

PRIMUM NON NOCERE

First, Do No Harm!

I agree

 

[ChatteringBirds]

her oldest friend claims that all LL's Hereford friends stand by her & believe her. (

If true, maybe it is the same kind of deep denial, which is also self-protective, that families of criminals often go through.

Surely they are all intelligent enough that in time, when they are ready to face all of the facts given during the trial, some will be able to wrap their minds around it.
JMO

 

[cottonweaver]

Regarding Tony Chambers I do wonder if being a nurse himself played any part in which side he took during the grievance process

Susan Ogilvy (?) was interviewed on a radio 4 news programme this week.
Hope I have the name correct - it's the woman who took over from Chambers and then started litigation for constructive dismissal.

Anyway, she said that there was a very real divide at Countess between nurses and doctors and that she felt it was one part of the reason that Chambers - and others - backed Letby.

 

[mummyshark]

I know this. I'd like to know why, specifically, this is the case, though.

The jury are under a legal compulsion to be there during the trial so why not a convicted defendant?

What prevents a court from issuing a warrant/order that the defendant attends?

I can't get to a point where I catch up with all posts, so sorry if this has been said already, but I suspect it that forcing her might be in breach of a human rights law. She could also be claiming that she can't attend due to her mental health. The court might be treading very carefully in that case, so as not to be accused of unfair treatment which she could use to strengthen her basis for appeal (if she's planning to). This is all just my opinion. I could be completely wrong!