GUILTY UK - Nurse Lucy Letby, murder of babies, 7 Guilty of murder verdicts; 7 Guilty of attempted murder; 2 Not Guilty of attempted; 6 hung re attempted #33

[IDK]

It has been reported that LL’s mother had a difficult, traumatic delivery with ll. I know we’re not 100% sure this is true since the original source was apparently ll. ( or her mother could have told the friend?)

If true, and LL’s mother had an extremely traumatic delivery, it’s possible she was not able to have any more children after ll, or her doctors advised against it for safety reasons. We don’t know if their decision to have one child was by choice, or medical reasons.

So in this case, imagine if ll were aware that because of her own birth, her mother couldn’t have any more children? She would carry the weight of that and perhaps her parents reminded her of this at times? Imagine how that might make a child feel, and lead to feelings of guilt and twisted thinking. Could this be why she targeted multiples? She missed out on the experience of a sibling— so they should too?

These would be unconscious feelings and thoughts that led to her twisted, murderous behaviors, I think. I don’t think she even understood her own motivations.

Just a thought I had and IMO.
Edited for clarity.

 

[d0lphin]

Am just reading your link now.

A WS-er who is local to Chester, posted that Countess were currently running some kind of comments collection at the hospital . IIRC it was on the grounds of the hospital, outside. Asking the public to complete comments cards on how satisfied they were with Countess.
( Forgotten the WS-ers name so cannot find the exact details now or I'd bump their old post)

your link says
'
She added that they “expect there will be intense media attention on the Trust" and "extensive planning has been undertaken since charges were placed in November 2020, to prepare the Trust ahead of the start of the trial." Board papers from this year also reveal the hospital had a 'communication plan’ related to the conclusion of the serial killer’s court hearing.
It also held a 'media preparedness session' on March 18 "to ensure the Board is briefed on what to expect and how the Trust will approach the end of the trial.'

Lucy Letby's hospital spent over £300k on PR advice about killer nurse

Analysis of Countess of Chester NHS Foundation Trust's supplier payment data has uncovered how the health body paid tens of thousands to a PR firm to consult on how to handle the media following the fallout of the child serial killer case

www.mirror.co.uk

cynical aside - those comments will be cherry-picked and then quoted in an expensively commissioned progress report.

I think you mean me, this was a stand in the foyer of the supermarket opposite the hospital so not on the hospital grounds. It's a supermarket used by many staff and patients, actually some people park there for the hospital!

 

[cottonweaver]

only just opened this link

Tiny, vulnerable victim who was supposed to be on 24 hour oxygen has his oxygen mask removed by LL so that LL can take one of her photos as per her usual MO. That poor child's face

Lucy Letby detectives find evidence of 'malevolence' in 12 more cases

Letby, 33 (pictured), was jailed for life on Monday after being found guilty of murdering seven babies and attempting to murder six others - but police are examining the records of 4,000 other babies.

www.dailymail.co.uk

As ColourPurple asked, did LL take any other Polaroids home ( later discarding them when the game was up?

 

[nyvictoria]

Not really a docu , more a series of interviews but worth a listen

Thank you for posting this. Very interesting.

 

[cottonweaver]

The term "flying monkey" comes to mind. Narcissists can be charming to people they can use and who are useful to them. There's a reason that people are willing to side with narcissists, even helping to target their victims, while ignoring the narcissist's actions / behaviour towards others. The realisation only comes when the mask slips and the flying monkey finds themselves on the wrong side of the narcissist, at which point they will look back at all the things the narcissist did and recognise them as "red flags".

very interesting, thanks.
I'd never heard of the meaning of FM's in relation to a narcissist.

Only just got round to looking at it. It makes a lot of sense

What 'Flying Monkeys' Mean When We Talk About Narcissism

The term 'flying monkeys' refers to people who submit to narcissists and help them manipulate or gaslight others. Learn why this happens and how to deal with flying monkeys.

www.verywellmind.com

 

[IDK]

only just opened this link

Tiny, vulnerable victim who was supposed to be on 24 hour oxygen has his oxygen mask removed by LL so that LL can take one of her photos as per her usual MO. That poor child's face

Lucy Letby detectives find evidence of 'malevolence' in 12 more cases

Letby, 33 (pictured), was jailed for life on Monday after being found guilty of murdering seven babies and attempting to murder six others - but police are examining the records of 4,000 other babies.

www.dailymail.co.uk

As ColourPurple asked, did LL take any other Polaroids home ( later discarding them when the game was up?

All it takes is a moment to snap a photo. I’ve seen this done in NICUs before with stable babies—in that moment while you are putting a fresh, clean new cannula on a baby, you do have to remove the old one. A 1-2 second photo is taken to give to the parents. I’ve never seen a baby desaturate or have distress when this was done. Usually I’ve seen this done with 2 nurses— one tending to baby and oxygen, the other taking the picture. Others can weigh in, but I don’t see the harm as long as baby is stable and done quickly. Though granted, with ll you just never know…..

Editing to add— I had read this in a previous article but could not read all the details on the link posted here. But the impression I had was the baby was stable.

 

[Becci]

Am just reading your link now.

A WS-er who is local to Chester, posted that Countess were currently running some kind of comments collection at the hospital . IIRC it was on the grounds of the hospital, outside. Asking the public to complete comments cards on how satisfied they were with Countess.
( Forgotten the WS-ers name so cannot find the exact details now or I'd bump their old post)

your link says
'
She added that they “expect there will be intense media attention on the Trust" and "extensive planning has been undertaken since charges were placed in November 2020, to prepare the Trust ahead of the start of the trial." Board papers from this year also reveal the hospital had a 'communication plan’ related to the conclusion of the serial killer’s court hearing.
It also held a 'media preparedness session' on March 18 "to ensure the Board is briefed on what to expect and how the Trust will approach the end of the trial.'

Lucy Letby's hospital spent over £300k on PR advice about killer nurse

Analysis of Countess of Chester NHS Foundation Trust's supplier payment data has uncovered how the health body paid tens of thousands to a PR firm to consult on how to handle the media following the fallout of the child serial killer case

www.mirror.co.uk

cynical aside - those comments will be cherry-picked and then quoted in an expensively commissioned progress report.

I presume that all nhs hospitals are doing it.
When I've gone in with my daughter a few times this year they txt me to fill out a questionnaire on how we rated the visit, waiting time, cleanliness, staff friendliness, what could be improved exc..
Same with the GP. We got given a similar survey then to.

 

[Cluedoneit]

I very much wonder if Letby realised at an early age that she liked inflicting pain? Logically, if she realised hurting someone who could talk back would get her into trouble, she may have chosen neonatal nursing as a way of fulfilling that need without reprisal. If so, she likely harmed a baby the first time she was left alone with one. I hope they are looking closely at those 5 timesheets from the keep box at her paren’s home. It’s more than possible that one or more of those babies were her first attempted or successful murder.

 

[BuzzC]

Pure speculation on my part.

Being “the nurse” to her friends at a young age and then being a “top” nurse to her friends and family once qualified. I wonder if her motivation was perceived slights on her abilities?

I killed them on purpose because “I’m not good enough to care for them”. Was this a response to her feeling that being kept out of the nursery with the most poorly babies was because her manager felt she wasn’t up to it?

She was, seemingly, placed on a pedestal by her parents. Maybe she couldn’t deal with a sub-par view of her work performance.

Causing upset and carnage to her colleagues and her working environment may have been the driver.

Disclaimer: I may also be totally wrong, it’s so difficult to make sense of something so horrific and inhumane.

 

[cottonweaver]

All it takes is a moment to snap a photo. I’ve seen this done in NICUs before with stable babies—in that moment while you are putting a fresh, clean new cannula on a baby, you do have to remove the old one. A 1-2 second photo is taken to give to the parents. I’ve never seen a baby desaturate or have distress when this was done. Usually I’ve seen this done with 2 nurses— one tending to baby and oxygen, the other taking the picture. Others can weigh in, but I don’t see the harm as long as baby is stable and done quickly. Though granted, with ll you just never know…..

Editing to add— I had read this in a previous article but could not read all the details on the link posted here. But the impression I had was the baby was stable.

ah!
This is where expertise and informed opinion comes in. Thanks. So not necessarily distressing. ( Once I'd seen the photo, I couldn't scroll down the rest of the article)

As you have that can you also chip-in on the bereavement checklists ( and thus the standard equipment for them. ) Checklists & access to prints before a child actually died came up at trial. ( Johnson KC mentions the latter but leaves it hanging for the jury)
eg If she wanted to, would it have been easy for her to take extra Polaroids & feet/hand prints for herself to take home for her ' memento collection' as Johnson KC phrased it? ( IDK what else is on the list which might be memento -related)


context - we'd all wondering why no cell photos on her phone or had they just been deleted already and anything else she might she have gotten rid of /secreted around the time of the first searches ?

Also, if you have the time, how might someone like LL have felt about being Band 5, 4 years after graduating?

 

[cottonweaver]

I very much wonder if Letby realised at an early age that she liked inflicting pain? Logically, if she realised hurting someone who could talk back would get her into trouble, she may have chosen neonatal nursing as a way of fulfilling that need without reprisal. If so, she likely harmed a baby the first time she was left alone with one. I hope they are looking closely at those 5 timesheets from the keep box at her paren’s home. It’s more than possible that one or more of those babies were her first attempted or successful murder.

hadn't thought of that
very astute and could be key

 

[Bivbov]

ah!
This is where expertise and informed opinion comes in. Thanks. So not necessarily distressing. ( Once I'd seen the photo, I couldn't scroll down the rest of the article)

As you have that can you also chip-in on the bereavement checklists ( and thus the standard equipment for them. ) Checklists & access to prints before a child actually died came up at trial. ( Johnson KC mentions the latter but leaves it hanging for the jury)
eg If she wanted to, would it have been easy for her to take extra Polaroids & feet/hand prints for herself to take home for her ' memento collection' as Johnson KC phrased it? ( IDK what else is on the list which might be memento -related)


context - we'd all wondering why no cell photos on her phone or had they just been deleted already and anything else she might she have gotten rid of /secreted around the time of the first searches ?

Also, if you have the time, how might someone like LL have felt about being Band 5, 4 years after graduating?

There is no shame in being a band 5 nurse, and some people remain at band 5 for the duration of their career as a nurse. For someone with an alleged tendency to think of themselves as superior, however, it could be a frustration.

 

[ColourPurple]

only just opened this link

Tiny, vulnerable victim who was supposed to be on 24 hour oxygen has his oxygen mask removed by LL so that LL can take one of her photos as per her usual MO. That poor child's face

Lucy Letby detectives find evidence of 'malevolence' in 12 more cases

Letby, 33 (pictured), was jailed for life on Monday after being found guilty of murdering seven babies and attempting to murder six others - but police are examining the records of 4,000 other babies.

www.dailymail.co.uk

As ColourPurple asked, did LL take any other Polaroids home ( later discarding them when the game was up?

Yeah that was my worry.

I've always wondered whether she had other more incriminating trophies like photos for babies A, C and D that she disposed of as soon as the police investigation started as no handover sheets were found in her home for those babies, yet she had one for Baby B who survived. It just seems unlikely that she kept no trophies at all for three babies who died.

I'd wrongly assumed in the past that any camera on the ward would either be on a phone or have a memory card, or there would be negatives that police could check to ensure LL hadn't taken any photos for trophies. However the news that it was a Polaroid/instant camera means that any photos she took would be produced instantly and leave no record!

 

[dotr]

I wouldn't be surprised if the main reason she had an affair or whatever with the doc was just to show everyone that she too could "get a man." Anyone would have done. And she could have kept it secret if she had wanted to. But she didn't, because that wasn't the point.

No idea what he looks like having never seen a pic of the man, beard.....? imo, speculation.

 

[Cuko]

No, she was not present in the room at the time of every collapse. She was on duty for each one, but not always present in the room.

The consultants had NO EVIDENCE that the police would have been able to use at that time. They needed the hospital's support if they wanted police to investigate. The police would not have the medical knowledge and would have needed support from the hospital to figure things out.

Thanks for correcting my error. I meant that LL was present on shift.

 

[ColourPurple]

All it takes is a moment to snap a photo. I’ve seen this done in NICUs before with stable babies—in that moment while you are putting a fresh, clean new cannula on a baby, you do have to remove the old one. A 1-2 second photo is taken to give to the parents. I’ve never seen a baby desaturate or have distress when this was done. Usually I’ve seen this done with 2 nurses— one tending to baby and oxygen, the other taking the picture. Others can weigh in, but I don’t see the harm as long as baby is stable and done quickly. Though granted, with ll you just never know…..

Editing to add— I had read this in a previous article but could not read all the details on the link posted here. But the impression I had was the baby was stable.

The thing is, we have no idea whether she did just remove the oxygen from the baby for one second and take a pic or whether she removed it for longer or whether she took other pics of her sabotaging babies. She's a convicted serial killer and attacker of babies, who kept paper trophies of her attacks, so it wouldn't be out of character for her to have done so. And with the camera being a polaroid there would be no other record, if any pics were taken and then later disposed of.


ETA link to the article as my previous post didn't quote the full article due to forum rules about not quoting in full.

We trusted Lucy Letby so much we wanted her to be our baby's godmother

EXCLUSIVE: The couple now suspect that their boy was attacked by Letby, who picked him out as one of her favourites, even getting angry with other nurses when she wasn't allocated him to care for.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Cluedoneit]

I have a question. In all of the reports it said her father made her bed after her arrest. Does anyone know which arrest that was because the evidence photos of her bed shows it was unmade? Is it possible that this is another ‘mistake’ in the ‘victim Lucy’ narrative alongside the arrest in her nightdress rather than her tracksuit or are they talking about a different arrest?

 

[IDK]

The thing is, we have no idea whether she did just remove the oxygen from the baby for one second and take a pic or whether she removed it for longer or whether she took other pics of her sabotaging babies. She's a convicted serial killer and attacker of babies, who kept paper trophies of her attacks, so it wouldn't be out of character for her to have done so. And with the camera being a polaroid there would be no other record, if any pics were taken and then later disposed of.


ETA link to the article as my previous post didn't quote the full article due to forum rules about not quoting in full.

We trusted Lucy Letby so much we wanted her to be our baby's godmother

EXCLUSIVE: The couple now suspect that their boy was attacked by Letby, who picked him out as one of her favourites, even getting angry with other nurses when she wasn't allocated him to care for.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Thanks for posting the link! The article I read before didn’t have any pictures of that tiny little fragile baby. And I totally agree— from now on, every single action she has taken in the past will be rightfully scrutinized and examined for irregularities. Horrifying to think she might have kept photo trophies.

 

[Bivbov]

There is no shame in being a band 5 nurse, and some people remain at band 5 for the duration of their career as a nurse. For someone with an alleged tendency to think of themselves as superior, however, it could be a frustration.

Also, in my experience, the higher up the nursing grades you advance, (in a hospital setting) the less direct patient contact you have….

 

[IDK]

ah!
This is where expertise and informed opinion comes in. Thanks. So not necessarily distressing. ( Once I'd seen the photo, I couldn't scroll down the rest of the article)

As you have that can you also chip-in on the bereavement checklists ( and thus the standard equipment for them. ) Checklists & access to prints before a child actually died came up at trial. ( Johnson KC mentions the latter but leaves it hanging for the jury)
eg If she wanted to, would it have been easy for her to take extra Polaroids & feet/hand prints for herself to take home for her ' memento collection' as Johnson KC phrased it? ( IDK what else is on the list which might be memento -related)


context - we'd all wondering why no cell photos on her phone or had they just been deleted already and anything else she might she have gotten rid of /secreted around the time of the first searches ?

Also, if you have the time, how might someone like LL have felt about being Band 5, 4 years after graduating?

As far as the photos— on our unit the Polaroid camera and film were kept locked up and monitored so there would always be some when needed. But I can’t see any reason she couldn’t take pictures to keep for herself. I can’t remember about the hand and footprint kits, but they would likely have been watched closely too. Just based on my experience!