GUILTY UK - Nurse Lucy Letby, murder of babies, 7 Guilty of murder verdicts; 7 Guilty of attempted murder; 2 Not Guilty of attempted; 6 hung re attempted #33

[cottonweaver]

Also, in my experience, the higher up the nursing grades you advance, (in a hospital setting) the less direct patient contact you have….

yes that did cross my mind, she's not going to want to be a hands-off manager

she did say during the trial that NNU was her ' passion' ( !)

maybe she suggested the MA & a placement at Alder Hey ( grievance procedure ' rewards') as a way to rise in status (top dog boasts amongst unit nurses) but still retain access to patients.
What do you reckon?

 

[May72031]

To think it was a week ago (bar a few hours) that LL was found GUILTY on seven charges of murder, and seven charges of attempted murder.

As expected, many questions remains, and sadly, I fear there is a lot more to investigate.

 

[Officer Dibble]

That was baby c, so June 2015.

Thank you.

 

[Officer Dibble]

I very much wonder if Letby realised at an early age that she liked inflicting pain? Logically, if she realised hurting someone who could talk back would get her into trouble, she may have chosen neonatal nursing as a way of fulfilling that need without reprisal. If so, she likely harmed a baby the first time she was left alone with one. I hope they are looking closely at those 5 timesheets from the keep box at her paren’s home. It’s more than possible that one or more of those babies were her first attempted or successful murder.

Brings to mind there was often one child who loved pinching the other children at nursery school. MOO

 

[cottonweaver]

didn't know this

In the same week - February 16 and 19 2016- that the Care Quality Commission was carrying out an inspection of the NNU, with inspectors at the hospital, there was a charge for a possible LL murder attempt on a baby girl on 17th Feb.

CQC report Life on 'welcoming' but 'cramped' baby unit in midst of Letby's murder spree

ps the Babygrow appeal gets a mention in the CQC report.
Also 'passionate staff' is a quote. Wonder who gushed to the CQC about her passion and thus ingratiated herself w top management. am only speculating on coincidence fwiw

More importantly CQC report found that even in feb 2016 'In terms of challenges, it also refers to periods where patients would not be observed'

Hmmm...@The report states that between January 2015 and January 2016, 254 incidents were recorded by the children’s unit, neonatal unit and paediatric outpatient’s clinic, of which 252 were reported as "low or no harm".'
( Jan 15- Jan 16 covers Baby A - Baby I. Five murder convictions and 3 attempted murder convictions. Government decides & legislates the powers of all regulators like the toothless CQC whom the Trust didn't fully disclose to. )

calendar chart of LL's convctions is here at BBC link. Wondering what was happening in LL's life between start of dec 2015 & end Jan 2016 because they are currently blank or just pending investigation? Hard to say Nurse Lucy Letby guilty of murdering seven babies on neonatal unit

No verdict list UK - Lucy Letby Trial - Media, Maps & Timeline *NO DISCUSSION*

 

[Bivbov]

yes that did cross my mind, she's not going to want to be a hands-off manager

she did say during the trial that NNU was her ' passion' ( !)

maybe she suggested the MA & a placement at Alder Hey ( grievance procedure ' rewards') as a way to rise in status (top dog boasts amongst unit nurses) but still retain access to patients.
What do you reckon?

A Masters would have definitely given bragging rights, and potentially opened doors to roles with more autonomy. I’m not a neonatal nurse, but I’m guessing that working at Alder Hey carries a bit of kudos amongst paediatric / neonatal nurses

 

[dotr]

Brings to mind there was often one child who loved pinching the other children at nursery school. MOO

Exactly, betting that as a child, if LL had any access to babies whether they were members of her extended family, or the younger siblings of friends, they felt a pinch of one kind or another.
Eeks, wondering if she babysat much as a teen?
imo, speculation.

 

[Tortoise]

I have a question. In all of the reports it said her father made her bed after her arrest. Does anyone know which arrest that was because the evidence photos of her bed shows it was unmade? Is it possible that this is another ‘mistake’ in the ‘victim Lucy’ narrative alongside the arrest in her nightdress rather than her tracksuit or are they talking about a different arrest?

It was her first arrest. She wasn't arrested at her house the second and third time.

The court is shown a photo of her bedroom looking very tidy, with cuddly toys on the bed, including Winnie-the-Pooh and Eeyore.

The duvet cover reads "sweet dreams". The court is told it was straightened up and tidied by her dad, after she was arrested.

The court now sees a photo of the same room - Lucy Letby's bedroom - immediately after she was arrested and the police had been in. Everything is in disarray.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-65431833

 

[iamshadow21]

Ofc Letby is not Allitt but I noticed that Allitt's offending including casual attacks such as putting a pillow over a baby's face.* (Allitt didn't have access to ICU and her victims were older babies and young children but the impulses seem similar)

* That was from the show below.

I can't put the Youtube urls up due to TOS but if you search for show titles you can find examples like this one below. It's a BBC dramatisation but it seems to be in line with the case facts I'd seen in a straight documentary.

Angel of Death : The Beverley Allitt Story (2005)​

I know you're interested in the psych aspects the LL case, so if you do watch it, it also covers the period while she was on bail and temp living at a friends. Attempts to poison dog, the brother and to simulate poltergeist activity to create as much havoc as possible.

or Trevor McDonald and the Killer Nurse
ITV traditional documentary on BA case focussing mainly on the investigative team, interviews the LE involved and BA's adult surviving victims, a retrospective. Incl some of the interrogation tapes.
(PS The two consultants who saved many lives were thrown under the bus, sacked. Lead detective had a major battle to build a case, against naysayers who said he'd never get there)

Thank you, I was able to find places to watch both of these, they were interesting.

 

[Parker Knoll]

Just while I am thinking and in no particular order !
I remember literally a hundred years ago reading a US news report on this case and in it it stated categorically that the police had removed a significant amount of “ photographs “ from her Chester property. I have never seen it referred to in any UK reports so take that as you will, they may not of been entered into evidence in this trial due to the time limit the indictments spanned so maybe they will feature IF further charges are made.

On her first arrest her father would of been instructed to leave the property whilst they searched it ( 3 day search IIRC ) I am presuming that as she could not return thereafter and was bailed to the Hereford address her dad was allowed back then, made her bed and collected personal effects. He or both parents would of gone back at some point to get it ready for sale.

I think just prior to first arrest she was feeling pretty bomb proof with her colleagues being called in for questioning and it looks like she as was the last on the police’s list she thought she was effectively in the clear. Just a chat with the police and it will all go away. I don’t think she was ever expecting the 6am knock.

I think she really thought she could talk her way out of things as it clearly had worked with management though not the consultants, she thought she had mixed things up so well with multiple types of attacks, falsifying records, busy sometimes chaotic unit and slipping in and out without swipe card data just to name a few. I do not think in a million years she thought the police would literally recreate all her shifts for the babies murdered and harmed minute by minute using all their resources and digital footprints.

JMO

 

[ColourPurple]

Exactly, betting that as a child, if LL had any access to babies whether they were members of her extended family, or the younger siblings of friends, they felt a pinch of one kind or another.
Eeks, wondering if she babysat much as a teen?
imo, speculation.

Her friend didn't mention LL babysitting as a teen but did say this, which frankly I think sounds weird as hell but there ya go!

Jade Thomas, 33, a friend from Aylestone who likened her to Mary Poppins, said Letby’s decision to become a nurse came as no surprise because from her mid-teens she would often talk about children’s health and development.

source

 

[d0lphin]

Her friend didn't mention LL babysitting as a teen but did say this, which frankly I think sounds weird as hell but there ya go!

Jade Thomas, 33, a friend from Aylestone who likened her to Mary Poppins, said Letby’s decision to become a nurse came as no surprise because from her mid-teens she would often talk about children’s health and development.

source

It might be as simple as her studying a BTEC Child Development qualification in school, so not sinister that she talked about it.

 

[ColourPurple]

Just while I am thinking and in no particular order !
I remember literally a hundred years ago reading a US news report on this case and in it it stated categorically that the police had removed a significant amount of “ photographs “ from her Chester property. I have never seen it referred to in any UK reports so take that as you will, they may not of been entered into evidence in this trial due to the time limit the indictments spanned so maybe they will feature IF further charges are made.

On her first arrest her father would of been instructed to leave the property whilst they searched it ( 3 day search IIRC ) I am presuming that as she could not return thereafter and was bailed to the Hereford address her dad was allowed back then, made her bed and collected personal effects. He or both parents would of gone back at some point to get it ready for sale.

I think just prior to first arrest she was feeling pretty bomb proof with her colleagues being called in for questioning and it looks like she as was the last on the police’s list she thought she was effectively in the clear. Just a chat with the police and it will all go away. I don’t think she was ever expecting the 6am knock.

I think she really thought she could talk her way out of things as it clearly had worked with management though not the consultants, she thought she had mixed things up so well with multiple types of attacks, falsifying records, busy sometimes chaotic unit and slipping in and out without swipe card data just to name a few. I do not think in a million years she thought the police would literally recreate all her shifts for the babies murdered and harmed minute by minute using all their resources and digital footprints.

JMO

I think I do vaguely remember that. If there ever were photos, if they weren't destroyed, I wonder if they could have been hidden in plain site, amongst family photo albums?

After all the legal arguments, I was half expecting to hear that there might have been photos or similar evidence that had been withheld from the jury, in the same way that the jury in the Vincent Tabak trial weren't allowed to know that he had viewed violent strangulation *advertiser censored*, even though he was accused of strangling Joanna Yeates. But, we haven't heard anything at all. Even if there had been any, I'm not sure if they'd be able to reveal it yet while there's still a chance for a retrial for the undecided charges.

 

[ColourPurple]

It might be as simple as her studying a BTEC Child Development qualification in school, so not sinister that she talked about it.

I think they said she did A levels rather than a Btech.

ETA yup...

After passing her A-levels Letby took up a place to study nursing at Chester in September 2008...Letby took a course in general nursing in her first year before specialising in children’s nursing for her second and third years.

 

[Cluedoneit]

It was her first arrest. She wasn't arrested at her house the second and third time.

The court is shown a photo of her bedroom looking very tidy, with cuddly toys on the bed, including Winnie-the-Pooh and Eeyore.

The duvet cover reads "sweet dreams". The court is told it was straightened up and tidied by her dad, after she was arrested.

The court now sees a photo of the same room - Lucy Letby's bedroom - immediately after she was arrested and the police had been in. Everything is in disarray.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-65431833

Thanks @Tortoise , I think I missed the tidy photo at the time. Its the sort of thing you’d do as a parent if you thought your child was never coming home.

 

[Dotta]

very interesting, thanks.
I'd never heard of the meaning of FM's in relation to a narcissist.

Only just got round to looking at it. It makes a lot of sense

What 'Flying Monkeys' Mean When We Talk About Narcissism

The term 'flying monkeys' refers to people who submit to narcissists and help them manipulate or gaslight others. Learn why this happens and how to deal with flying monkeys.

www.verywellmind.com

Ummm
Can we use a word "sidekick"?

A monkey (which is flying) somehow does not appeal to me

JMO

 

[MissTwiddle]

Sorry if this has already been mentioned / discussed.

I do think she was telling the truth about being arrested in her nightie.

When you look at the photo of her leaving the house, you can clearly see a long navy blue cotton nightshirt poking from under her tracksuit top. I believe she was in her nightie and simply shoved her tracksuit over the top.

 

[Dotta]

I do think she was telling the truth about being arrested in her nightie.

When you look at the photo of her leaving the house, you can clearly see a long navy blue cotton nightshirt poking from under her tracksuit top. I believe she was in her nightie and simply shoved her tracksuit over the top.

But!!!
She was not hauled in a flimsy nightie for all neighbours to gawp!

The arrest was done perfectly and in a civilized manner.

Police did GREAT job.

JMO

 

[Dotta]

"The chief executive who oversaw the hospital where killer nurse Lucy Letby murdered seven babies received an additional £80,000 after he resigned.

Tony Chambers resigned from his £160,000-a-year role at the Countess of Chester Hospital just weeks after Letby was arrested in September 2018.

A source told the Mail he resigned following a vote of no confidence in him at an 'extraordinary' meeting of the medical staff committee, which included consultants, that same month.

But he was still paid for a further six months, The Times reports."

Lucy Letby hospital's boss 'was paid £80,000 by NHS' after resignation

Tony Chambers resigned from his £160,000-a-year role at the Countess of Chester Hospital just weeks after Lucy Letby was arrested in September 2018 - but he was still paid for a further six months.

www-dailymail-co-uk.cdn.ampproject.org

 

[DianaWW]

Sorry if this has already been mentioned / discussed.

I do think she was telling the truth about being arrested in her nightie.

When you look at the photo of her leaving the house, you can clearly see a long navy blue cotton nightshirt poking from under her tracksuit top. I believe she was in her nightie and simply shoved her tracksuit over the top.

If that was the case I think she would have said that when being questioned by the prosecution. Instead she said she didn’t know why she had lied to the jury about it.