GUILTY UK - Nurse Lucy Letby, murder of babies, 7 Guilty of murder verdicts; 7 Guilty of attempted murder; 2 Not Guilty of attempted; 6 hung re attempted #33

[Cuko]

Fwiw and to be simplistic regarding motive I think she craved power and control.
She wanted to play god and for a time she did.
JMO

I tend to agree with that. But what I want to know above all else is WHY she wanted to play God.

 

[Dotta]

I tend to agree with that. But what I want to know above all else is WHY she wanted to play God.

With overbearing, so called "helicopter parents" (it is a factual term) children/teens have NO control over their lives.
None at all.
They suffocate.

Ever heard the expression
"Off the leash" at last?

Then Compensation happens.
Add mental disturbances.


JMO

 

[Davieson]

I tend to agree with that. But what I want to know above all else is WHY she wanted to play God.

For me, its enough to accept she did these things and is being punished accordingly ,without searching for motivation.

 

[iamshadow21]

Just a thought, not suggesting that all women are affected this way, but curious if LL's monthly cycle played any role regarding the timing of the baby torture and deaths? imo.

If that were the case, I'd expect to see cases at regularly spaced intervals that are predictable, like the early victims of the New York Zodiac, whose spate of violence began with him attacking based on certain constellations being visible at the same time, and we just don't. She attacks in clusters and takes breaks sometimes when the heat is on. She attacked one baby twice, I think two weeks apart, the judge said. That's much too long and too erratic for a menstrual cycle.

MOO

 

[cottonweaver]

I tend to agree with that. But what I want to know above all else is WHY she wanted to play God.

That's what all the detectives are saying. that majority of the parents want. Just why? ( Mail podcast new interviews)
Detectives concede that they'll never find out because they don't think she will ever admit guilt. ( She's so entitled that she doesn't think her victims deserve any explanations)

It's unfathomable.
Even our worst ever serial killer Harold Shipman didn't wield the kind of sadism displayed here. ( Mostly diamorphine poisoning)

 

[iamshadow21]

here's all her move dates from post on page 23

'Mr Johnson says Letby completed a three-year nursing course, during which time Letby confirms she was living in student accommodation in Chester, in more than one place, changing each academic year.

Letby says she began her employment in January 2012. Before that time, she went back to her parents' place in Hereford*, and then moved to Ash House when obtaining her job.

She then went to a flat of one of her colleagues, living there alone from March 15, 2014 to June 1, 2015, then back to Ash House. She moved to her Westbourne Road home in April 2016#

Graduates 2011, briefly at home with parents * after graduation and before she takes up her new job.
7 different moves so am not sure his No 1 clue works particularly alongside so much evidence that she was always volunteering for night shifts and was integrated amongst her social circle and viewed her clique at NNU as her everything, her family.

AFAIK police restricted their initial net between two dates - June to June but they're now on their next phase looking at a wider date range. So it might be a bit early to conclude that Junes are the key. Somebody else on WS might want to speak to the reasons for a 12 month indictment period because I haven't been following the case long enough to know the background to that

I think they selected a year window because of several reasons.
* It was the most recent period of employment history where she had direct contact with patients. Therefore, it was most fresh in everyone's memories, and records were most likely to remain.
* It was the period when the people she was working with became aware of her correlation with unusual collapses and deaths. People were suspicious of her from early on, certainly by September or October of 2015 when they began talking to each other about it, and were noticing things they may not have otherwise as a result.
* It was a period when they had physical evidence remaining, or reports of such. Autopsies, blood test results. Who knows how many babies before 2015 didn't have these things done, or whose results were not kept because the death or collapse was thought natural, if unusual or unexplained.
* You have to pick a window, and work outward. It would be a herculean task to search the entirety of Letby's career without knowing if there's anything to be found. Now, they know for certain there probably is something to be found, and they know so much more about what they're looking for. Also, it's easier to get funding for your big expensive task force if you can present the top brass with proof you have a serial offender. They were able to do that, so it's worth the police force's while to keep looking for other cases of harm. At this stage, it would seem far more negligent to close the book, even though she is away for life, when there might be a whole lot of families out there deserving of answers. We've seen just a handful in the papers since the verdicts. There'll be far more who aren't going public, but are just as scared and needing resolution. Even if we never see another trial, the investigation needs to be done.

MOO

 

[Sweeper2000]

I do think every single baby that was under her care and others as well presumably should indeed be checked to make sure everything was ok

 

[cottonweaver]

How Reddit armchair detectives threatened to derail Lucy Letby’s trial​

and ....
' The popularity of the Letby podcast, which is at present the fourth most listened-to podcast in the UK according to Spotify, has caught the eye of amateur sleuths, psychics and pseudo-scientists proclaiming Letby’s innocence or posting “theories” on the evidence. Videos tagged with the hashtag, #LucyLetbyInnocent, have been viewed more than 3.3 million times on TikTok.
In one, a woman in her twenties, with a banner reading “Lucy Letby is innocent, know your maths”, says that it is “statistically improbable” that “all the deaths that happened on Lucy’s watch were murders”


know your maths 'Another commenter, on the Lucy Letby thread on Reddit, wrote: “I’m still unconvinced. Circumstantial evidence isn’t enough.” A third, writing from the US, said: “‘Strange’ behavior is not evidence — Amanda Knox acted strangely during her trial, but she was innocent.”'

How Reddit armchair detectives threatened to derail Lucy Letby’s trial

True crime enthusiasts broke restrictions on the reporting of names of victims and witnesses while online campaigners insist serial killer is innocent and question ‘circumstantial’ evidence

www.thetimes.co.uk

 

[JTS101]

If I had a tenner for every time, post verdict or charging, that an old school friend later describes the killer as weird, I'd be very rich

A bit like the "Nostradamus" effect where no-one can tell what he predicted until the event occurs.

 

[esther43]

I think they selected a year window because of several reasons.
* It was the most recent period of employment history where she had direct contact with patients. Therefore, it was most fresh in everyone's memories, and records were most likely to remain.
* It was the period when the people she was working with became aware of her correlation with unusual collapses and deaths. People were suspicious of her from early on, certainly by September or October of 2015 when they began talking to each other about it, and were noticing things they may not have otherwise as a result.
* It was a period when they had physical evidence remaining, or reports of such. Autopsies, blood test results. Who knows how many babies before 2015 didn't have these things done, or whose results were not kept because the death or collapse was thought natural, if unusual or unexplained.
* You have to pick a window, and work outward. It would be a herculean task to search the entirety of Letby's career without knowing if there's anything to be found. Now, they know for certain there probably is something to be found, and they know so much more about what they're looking for. Also, it's easier to get funding for your big expensive task force if you can present the top brass with proof you have a serial offender. They were able to do that, so it's worth the police force's while to keep looking for other cases of harm. At this stage, it would seem far more negligent to close the book, even though she is away for life, when there might be a whole lot of families out there deserving of answers. We've seen just a handful in the papers since the verdicts. There'll be far more who aren't going public, but are just as scared and needing resolution. Even if we never see another trial, the investigation needs to be done.

MOO

With nurse EP being the biggest mystery of the moment. Like a jigsaw awaiting certain pieces.

 

[Davieson]

I do think every single baby that was under her care and others as well presumably should indeed be checked to make sure everything was ok

Is it not a bit late in the day for that? These 'babies' will now at primary school or possibly even secondary school by now

 

[crystalline]

Is it not a bit late in the day for that? These 'babies' will now at primary school or possibly even secondary school by now

I guess by investigating they may actually find some solid hard evidence of her guilt. Old medical notes, test results etc. Who knows what may come up.

 

[Dcflag]

I tend to agree with that. But what I want to know above all else is WHY she wanted to play God.

Because she could I suppose. She was able to change the course of those babies lives with small actions and see whether the babies survived or not.

I feel like it’s not so much why as why not with her.

 

[Parker Knoll]

I gave up asking why ages ago … it’s futile.

 

[cottonweaver]

Just remembered what I wanted to ask.

Around the time that she murders two of the identical triplet boys over 2 days, LL ends up in A & E because she wants a blood test ( She claimed to have pricked herself w a needle during the resus of one of the baby boys after she's attacked them with air embolus/liver damage)

She also faints.
Do members who followed the trial think this was an authentic faint?
And is it typical to be so cautious - A&E - for a test when a needle has only been used on a healthy but premature baby?

 

[ColourPurple]

Just remembered what I wanted to ask.

Around the time that she murders two of the identical triplet boys over 2 days, LL ends up in A & E because she wants a blood test ( She claimed to have pricked herself w a needle during the resus of one of the baby boys after she's attacked them with air embolus/liver damage)

She also faints.
Do members who followed the trial think this was an authentic faint?
And is it typical to be so cautious - A&E - for a test when a needle has only been used on a healthy but premature baby?

It was discussed here at the time with some input from those with nursing/medical experience who said that yes she would have had to go for a blood test after a needlestick injury. Whether there even was an injury or whether the faint in A&E was genuine who knows?

 

[Dotta]

Because she could I suppose. She was able to change the course of those babies lives with small actions and see whether the babies survived or not.

I feel like it’s not so much why as why not with her.

These crimes happen in high inertia institutions, which are unable to supervise and control themselves correctly.

Add "hidden knowledge" aka "medical knowledge" which is mysterious to the public.

JMO

 

[cottonweaver]

It was discussed here at the time with some input from those with nursing/medical experience who said that yes she would have had to go for a blood test after a needlestick injury. Whether there even was an injury or whether the faint in A&E was genuine who knows?

It would be bitterly ironic if the sadist is such a simp that she faints cause she pricked herself.

She even called her mum to inform her she'd pricked herself, as a precautionary in case anything happened to her. Maybe LL's a hypochondriac too. Phoning your mother aged 25? ( Apparently her mum was hopping mad about the risks she was taking, gave her a stern talking to. I might have to go back & check whether Mum thought it was a big deal that 2 triplets died at the same time )

 

[iamshadow21]

It would be bitterly ironic if the sadist is such a simp that she faints cause she pricked herself.

She even called her mum to inform her she'd pricked herself, as a precautionary in case anything happened to her. Maybe LL's a hypochondriac too. Phoning your mother aged 25? ( Apparently her mum was hopping mad about the risks she was taking, gave her a stern talking to. I might have to go back & check whether Mum thought it was a big deal that 2 triplets died at the same time )

Not commenting on whether she faked the prick or her reaction, just giving a bit of insight from my own experience.

I can handle a certain amount of pain in other parts of my body, but if I prick or cut my fingertips or hands, I will faint the majority of the time. I also have a high incidence of fainting at blood draws. Once I fainted before they even got the needle in me. It's completely involuntary, and can be, to some degree, genetic. My brother has an equally high tendency to faint. He's fainted with a painful toe-stub before.

MOO

 

[Parker Knoll]

I wouldn’t put it past her if it was self inflicted tbh … it got her off the ward, sympathy with her doctor friend and the offer of a lift home.