UK - Nurse Lucy Letby, murder of babies, 7 Guilty of murder verdicts; 7 Guilty of attempted murder; 2 Not Guilty of attempted; 6 hung re attempted #34

[esther43]

In this relationship I feel it went both ways. I remember feeling sickly reading his messages and thinking this is a guy who's trying to groom a younger colleague into depending on him for a shoulder to cry on when he's actually a married man with kids and she far his junior in status.
JMO MOO

Yes, he should have known better re his marriage and also playing 'fetch' gathering hospital information and bringing it back to her when there were concerns. How irresponsible. Suspect he was not the only one.

 

[notsure]

Yes, he should have known better re his marriage and also playing 'fetch' gathering hospital information and bringing it back to her when there were concerns. How irresponsible. Suspect he was not the only one.

In my experience of workplaces, people do not look kindly on that kind of extra-marital affair, so I'm surprised they carried it on so blatantly - him leaving chocs for her, her messaging friends/colleagues about it. I wonder if he was separated from his wife at the time. There seemed to be no big attempt to cover up their 'flirtation.'

 

[marynnu]

Yes, he should have known better re his marriage and also playing 'fetch' gathering hospital information and bringing it back to her when there were concerns. How irresponsible. Suspect he was not the only one.

Bet he feels a right twerp now. Especially as all his colleagues know now naive he was, to say the least

 

[Parker Knoll]

I remember a Saturday job I had a hundred years ago when my boss left his wife of 30 yrs for the wife of his recently deceased twin brother, no shame at all. Christmas dinner would of been awkward that year.
Dr NN had his head turned and he fell for it hookbline and sinker it would appear.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

I remember a Saturday job I had a hundred years ago when my boss left his wife of 30 yrs for the wife of his recently deceased twin brother, no shame at all. Christmas dinner would of been awkward that year.
Dr NN had his head turned and he fell for it hookbline and sinker it would appear.

Maybe he had a nurse in every one of the numerous hospitals he worked in and was a total player?

 

[esther43]

I remember a Saturday job I had a hundred years ago when my boss left his wife of 30 yrs for the wife of his recently deceased twin brother, no shame at all. Christmas dinner would of been awkward that year.
Dr NN had his head turned and he fell for it hookbline and sinker it would appear.

So keen was he on chasing that tail.

 

[Tortoise]

A SPECIAL service is to be held at Chester Cathedral this weekend in memory of the babies killed by Lucy Letby.

The Service of Lament, Prayer and Hope will be held at 6pm on Sunday, September 10.

"Candles will be lit for the babies who died, and there will be an opportunity after the service for congregation members to light their own candles and spend time in quiet reflection.

Candles to be lit for Countess babies in Chester Cathedral service

A special service is to be held at Chester Cathedral this weekend in memory of the babies killed by Lucy Letby.

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

 

[Parker Knoll]

I know all the fee notes are not in yet but I thought it would be more tbh.

EXCLUSIVE How Lucy Letby's legal aid cost nearly £1million

Representatives for the serial killer received at least £980,133.92 in legal aid, a Freedom of Information request revealed. It also cost more than £2.5million to prosecute Letby.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[CS2C]

I’m only interested in how much the plumber got…

 

[Sweeper2000]

I’m only interested in how much the plumber got…

If he didn’t get what we deem is a reasonable amount shall we start a fund raiser? “For Lorenzo, a top bloke. he was the only positive thing about the whole trial, thanks Lorenzo”.

 

[katydid23]

but what about the 298? other sheets?

( might have been 257 sheets total)

Yes, if she took the 1st one, and that was it, no more sheets taken, it wouldn't be a big thing.

Yet, it still seems a little odd, in that the very first day in your new career, I'd think you'd be on your best behaviour. Taking something home that you have been taught was very wrong to take out of the hospital, on your first day does say something about her it seems.

 

[katydid23]

I absolutely appreciate all that and hear what you're saying.

This isn't week two as far as the reporters and media are concerned, though - it's week two hundred and seventy since she was arrested on 3rd July 2018. They've had more than five years to dig up every piece of dirt they could possibly find on her; they will have approached her entire family including any distant, extended family members they can find; everyone she was at school and collage with; her teachers and lecturers; everyone she's ever interacted with on FB - and certainly everyone in all the FB photos - and literally everyone they thought had the slightest connection to her.

In all that time they've reported the words of one chap who was the ex-boyfriend of her friend who says she was "a bit socially awkward", which for an early 20's woman these days is not uncommon, and her friend Dawn who was in the BBC documentary* who seems to be the source of the "we were were known as the mis-match crowd" (or however she put it) comments. I am completely convinced that, were there some tragic back story to her life, a childhood of abuse or her being an abuser, or her exhibiting deeply weird or disturbing behavior then we'd have heard about it in some form or other. Given the propensity of the British press the ramp up even the slightest negative thing about someone to ridiculous levels there genuinely appears to be no one with any bad story about her anywhere that the press can exaggerate as click-bait. It really is very, very bizarre, in my opinion.

I do get what you're saying about the first hand-over sheet. Obviously, I have no experience of the profession, but it doesn't sound to me like something really egregious. Thinking about it, perhaps that first one really was a genuine mistake, a brain fade given the inevitable nervousness and stress of your very first real shift as a proper employee? If it was then perhaps she saw it as "fate" (she seems to like that word) and thought she'd keep getting away with it in future?



*As I think I mentioned at the time, I think that Dawn was somewhat stitched up by the BBC in that documentary. Her interview where she said that she'd never believe that Lucy did it unless she told her herself was almost certainly recorded before the verdicts and she hadn't attended any of the trial. LL was, I think, intentionally trying to keep her friends in the dark as much as possible.

I think there have been small hints of childhood family dysfunction that may have laid the way for this bizarre adulthood of hers. There has been talk of her mother's odd behaviour in and around court. And small clues about LL's early life, in which her mother reportedly had a lot of medical issues and so did Lucy.

One of her friends said Lucy carried a first aid kit in her school backpack, and talked a lot about childhood health matters and wanted to care for children when she grew up. That seems to be laying the groundwork for a Munchausen type energy in the future.

I think she and her mom had an odd, awkward type of dysfunction, in which Lucy had to play along with it in order to get the love and attention an only child might need. Lucy reportedly had a lot of health issues herself and she and her mum may have bonded over that type of interaction? But it might not have been a healthy type of parent/child interaction.

I have read a lot about the childhoods of those with Munchausen symptoms. Here is a partial list:

What Triggers Munchausen?
It is unknown what causes or triggers Munchausen.

However, individuals diagnosed with Munchausen syndrome often have histories of trauma, abuse, or difficult life experiences.

Some theories suggest that the caregiver may have experienced:

Abuse or neglect as a child
Difficulty understanding or coping with serious illness
Identifying with someone close who has an illness
Low or inflated self-image
Inability to trust authority figures, such as doctors
Feelings of guilt or that they need to be punished
Presence of personality disorder, substance abuse, or depression

Munchausen Syndrome By Proxy: The Complete Guide | Sandstone Care

Munchausen, by proxy, is a serious mental illness & form of abuse. Because it is hard to recognize, it's often undiagnosed & can be dangerous for the child.

www.sandstonecare.com

I think LL may have experienced the bolded circumstances above in childhood. I think some of the ways she described her relationship with her parents, and the way her mother behaved makes me think those types of things unfolded in childhood.

 

[cottonweaver]

'Dr. Fiona MacRae, an anaesthetist at the Countess of Chester Hospital for over 25 years including the time that Lucy Letby was on the neonatal unit. Dr. MacRae gives us a unique insight into the hospital culture that, she says, could have facilitated an environment that allowed Lucy Letby to get away with murder for as long as she did.'

Episode 60

imo, more illuminating that Dr Gibbs' interview. (Pursuing a vaping incident, crisp-eating and other details about how the Trust management used disciplinaries over small issues to keep staff & 'trouble-makers' in line. )

 

[Parker Knoll]

I agree … more of an issue to them to be wearing crocs than a serial killer roaming the wards.

 

[Sweeper2000]

'Dr. Fiona MacRae, an anaesthetist at the Countess of Chester Hospital for over 25 years including the time that Lucy Letby was on the neonatal unit. Dr. MacRae gives us a unique insight into the hospital culture that, she says, could have facilitated an environment that allowed Lucy Letby to get away with murder for as long as she did.'

Episode 60

imo, more illuminating that Dr Gibbs' interview. (Pursuing a vaping incident, crisp-eating and other details about how the Trust management used disciplinaries over small issues to keep staff & 'trouble-makers' in line. )

Sounds more coercive than anything. “If they do anything hit them hard, that way they’ll think twice about doing it again“.

 

[cottonweaver]

Sounds more coercive than anything. “If they do anything hit them hard, that way they’ll think twice about doing it again“.

Exactly

And it's a common tactic.
Ineffective managers who need to shore up their position as well as to tamp down ( to send a message) will resort to attack as a means of defence.

Also, it's a replacement Trust board so it appears that the dysfunctional culture continued after the first lot of execs moved on and cashed their pay offs.
New Chairman offers new interim CEO a deal if she drops her whistleblowing complaint. 2022: Hospital boss claims unfair dismissal after chairman 'bullied' her

 

[Sweeper2000]

Exactly

And it's a common tactic.
Ineffective managers who need to shore up their position as well as to tamp down ( to send a message) will resort to attack as a means of defence.

Also, it's a replacement Trust board so it appears that the dysfunctional culture continued after the first lot of execs moved on and cashed their pay offs.
New Chairman offers new interim CEO a deal if she drops her whistleblowing complaint. 2022: Hospital boss claims unfair dismissal after chairman 'bullied' her

It’s one of the things I look out for, did the same with the monster. If someone or a group is acting defensively then why? Must have something to hide even if it’s nothing more than a lack of confidence.

 

[mewmew]

In my experience of workplaces, people do not look kindly on that kind of extra-marital affair, so I'm surprised they carried it on so blatantly - him leaving chocs for her, her messaging friends/colleagues about it. I wonder if he was separated from his wife at the time. There seemed to be no big attempt to cover up their 'flirtation.'

This has boggled me as well! Several months ago I posted about this. It was very odd to me that they were so openly flirting, taking overnight trips, he was giving her rides home…..all while being married? And nobody seemed to have an issue about it that we know of?

Several years ago I had a relationship with a doctor I worked with. Neither of us were married and there was nothing scandalous about it - but we still kept it VERY private. We were told by administration to keep it on the hush hush and that if it became well known, we would likely be transferred to different departments so we didn’t work directly together, to avoid allegations of favoritism (for example - “Dr so and so gives nurse so and so special treatment because they’re dating” type of gossip and snark), distractions, and just to maintain professionalism.

In fact, the university hospital I work for now has a strict policy they follow - dating is generally frowned upon between supervisors and subordinates and is closely monitored. Last time I posted about this I got some heat about how doctors are not the supervisors of nurses, which I totally understand. I’m rambling now but my point is just to agree with you, that I was very surprised there was less side-eye about her fairly open relationship with a married co-worker.

Workplace Romance Policies

All JMHO!!

 

[cottonweaver]

The Sun's FoI request, re-reported via the Mail ( labelled as a Mail 'exclusive')


'Anyone facing a Crown Court trial is eligible for legal aid, however applicants can be required to pay contributions up to the entire cost of the defence it they are convicted of at least one offence they had been charged with.'

Representatives for the serial killer received at least £980,133.92 in legal aid, the Ministry of Justice confirmed in response to a Freedom of Information request....
it was revealed that taxpayers coughed up more than £2.5million to prosecute Letby during her 10-month trial.....A total of £975,889.24 was provided to her solicitor and barrister at Manchester Crown Court. Her solicitor at the Police Station received another £4,244.68.'

Long, complex trials like these are going to be expensive. ( Ofc some tabloids have long running campaigns re legal aid)

EXCLUSIVE How Lucy Letby's legal aid cost nearly £1million

Representatives for the serial killer received at least £980,133.92 in legal aid, a Freedom of Information request revealed. It also cost more than £2.5million to prosecute Letby.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Balance Legal aid: UK's top judge says cuts caused 'serious difficulty'

 

[Anxala]

I know all the fee notes are not in yet but I thought it would be more tbh.

EXCLUSIVE How Lucy Letby's legal aid cost nearly £1million

Representatives for the serial killer received at least £980,133.92 in legal aid, a Freedom of Information request revealed. It also cost more than £2.5million to prosecute Letby.

www.dailymail.co.uk

I'd have thought much more than that too. Crown court trials don't come cheap, and particularly not when they're the length of this one.