UK - Prince Andrew accused of underage sexual relationship, 1999 - 2002

[otto]

BBM
RSBM

So you think it's possible Ms. Giuffre's attorneys did not make it clear to her what the legal definition of rape is? Or anyone else. No one in all this time actually showed her the actual legal definition of rape?

<modsnip>

Where are the other 8 young girls that Prince Andrew raped? Why haven't they come forward to corroborate this claim and to make a claim of their own?

"A new TV documentary is set to re-examine claims Prince Andrew joined in an orgy with paedophile Jeffrey Epstein and nine young women.

Virginia Roberts, now Virginia Giuffre, made the allegation - which the Prince vehemently denies - in court papers in 2015.

Now a new investigation by Channel 4's Dispatches has re-examined the court papers and looked at Ms Roberts' medical records from around the time she says she was abused.

The programme cites a court deposition made in January 2015 as part of a defamation case brought by Epstein's former girlfriend Ghislaine Maxwell, where she states that the 'third time' she had 'sex with Andy' was 'in an orgy on Epstein's private island in the US Virgin Islands'.

She said she was 18 at the time and that 'approximately eight other young girls, and I had sex together'."​

Prince Andrew 'joined orgy with Jeffrey Epstein and nine girls', accuser claimed | Daily Mail Online

 

[sds71]

Giuffre vs Dershowitz is ongoing

Sarah Ransome withdrew her lawsuit after Epstein paid her.

Billionaire pedophile Jeffrey Epstein has settled a lawsuit with a woman who alleged that he forced her into sex acts and directed her to have sex with power attorney Alan Dershowitz.
Sarah Ransome’s allegations against Dershowitz—who previously represented Epstein—were revealed this week, but she previously sued Epstein and his alleged madam, Ghislaine Maxwell, saying they trafficked her for sex from 2006 to 2007. Ransome withdrew the lawsuit Thursday after settlement was reached, the terms of which haven’t been disclosed. “We are pleased with the settlement. It provides as much compensation as money can provide for the horrific damage done by sex trafficking,” said her lawyer, David Boies. Epstein was convicted of soliciting an underage girl for prostitution—he’s also been accused of sexually abusing dozens of mostly underage girls at his Palm Beach mansion. Dershowitz issued a strong denial this week of Ransome’s allegations, saying: “I’ve never met this woman, I don’t know her, I never heard of her. She just made it up completely
Jeffrey Epstein Pays Off Woman Who Said He Directed Her to Have Sex With Alan Dershowitz

 

[escape2sc]

As far as I know, you can be over 18 and still be a victim of sex trafficking. Maxwell was just found guilty of sex trafficking. There are flight records, video, and photos of Andrew with Epstein, Maxwell and Virginia during the time frame of the sex trafficking charges against Epstein and Maxwell. I may be wrong but I believe I have read Andrew can lose the civil trial if the jurors believe it is more likely than not that Andrew slept with Virginia while she was under 18 years old and/or being trafficked by Epstein ? Also did Andrew have to know how old Virginia was or that she was being trafficked to be found responsible for victimizing her? I do not find Virginia's memory lapses problematic to her credibility of being a victim of Epstein, Maxwell and their associates. She was young with a troubled childhood and suddenly swept up in the glamour and high society life of Epstein's evil world - routinely sexually molested/abused and has admitted using alcohol and drugs during those years. I do have major issues with Andrew avoiding being interviewed by the FBI, his perfect memory of being at the Pizza Express , no regret of his friendship with Epstein, his "too honorable" visit to Epstein's for 4 days after Epstein was a convicted sex offender.

 

[otto]

Is there evidence that Prince Andrew, Dershowitz, or other politicians and celebrities had physical contact with Giuffre? In my opinion, the wilder the claims (e.g.: she was 15 years old), the more sensational and the less believable.

Of the four witnesses in Maxwell's trial, did any of them testify that they were trafficked to Epstein's friends or associates?

 

[MrsWatson]

<modsnip>

Where are the other 8 young girls that Prince Andrew raped? Why haven't they come forward to corroborate this claim and to make a claim of their own?

"A new TV documentary is set to re-examine claims Prince Andrew joined in an orgy with paedophile Jeffrey Epstein and nine young women.

Virginia Roberts, now Virginia Giuffre, made the allegation - which the Prince vehemently denies - in court papers in 2015.

Now a new investigation by Channel 4's Dispatches has re-examined the court papers and looked at Ms Roberts' medical records from around the time she says she was abused.

The programme cites a court deposition made in January 2015 as part of a defamation case brought by Epstein's former girlfriend Ghislaine Maxwell, where she states that the 'third time' she had 'sex with Andy' was 'in an orgy on Epstein's private island in the US Virgin Islands'.

She said she was 18 at the time and that 'approximately eight other young girls, and I had sex together'."​

Prince Andrew 'joined orgy with Jeffrey Epstein and nine girls', accuser claimed | Daily Mail Online

We have no idea if the other victims have come forward or not. They may very well have, and the information is not available to the public. Many victims of sexual abuse never file reports or come forward, though, because of the victim shaming and reliving the trauma. Many victims of sexual abuse and trauma misremember things, it's been documented in several different studies, easily found. Having dates and time frames off kilter does not mean it didn't happen.

I don't think Ms Giuffre has ever given a reason for withdrawing her complaint against Dershowitz. Perhaps her legal counsel told her the case against Prince Andrew was stronger. It's really none of our business why she withdrew it and has no bearing on this case. This case is about Prince Andrew.

That "documentary" is a blatant attempt to smear Ms. Giuffre and shore up Prince Andrew's reputation, imo.

All MOO.

 

[Jealoushe]

Not sure if this podcast has been shared before but the last few episodes were interesting.

‎Jeffrey Epstein, The Prince and The Pervert Podcast on Apple Podcasts

 

[otto]

We have no idea if the other victims have come forward or not. They may very well have, and the information is not available to the public. Many victims of sexual abuse never file reports or come forward, though, because of the victim shaming and reliving the trauma. Many victims of sexual abuse and trauma misremember things, it's been documented in several different studies, easily found. Having dates and time frames off kilter does not mean it didn't happen.

I don't think Ms Giuffre has ever given a reason for withdrawing her complaint against Dershowitz. Perhaps her legal counsel told her the case against Prince Andrew was stronger. It's really none of our business why she withdrew it and has no bearing on this case. This case is about Prince Andrew.

That "documentary" is a blatant attempt to smear Ms. Giuffre and shore up Prince Andrew's reputation, imo.

All MOO.

We'll have to wait and see how this unfolds. At this time, Giuffre is claiming that she lives in Colorado and is a resident of the US of A. Perhaps this is true, perhaps she is misremembering.

 

[MrsWatson]

We'll have to wait and see how this unfolds. At this time, Giuffre is claiming that she lives in Colorado and is a resident of the US of A. Perhaps this is true, perhaps she is misremembering.

And perhaps Prince Andrew is misremembering events, as well.

 

[MrsWatson]

Is there evidence that Prince Andrew, Dershowitz, or other politicians and celebrities had physical contact with Giuffre? In my opinion, the wilder the claims (e.g.: she was 15 years old), the more sensational and the less believable.

Of the four witnesses in Maxwell's trial, did any of them testify that they were trafficked to Epstein's friends or associates?

This article includes pictures of an FBI raid on Epstein's home. Many videocassettes and DVDs. So, likely there is evidence of physical contact.

Photos from 2019 FBI raid on Epstein’s Upper East Side mansion released

 

[otto]

This is something I've been wondering about for some time - why aren't others facing charges for abuse of under-age girls?

"Alan Dershowitz suggested that prosecutors behind the conviction of Ghislaine Maxwell for sex trafficking crimes could now try Epstein accuser Virginia Giuffre for her alleged role in the abuse of under-age girls.

The Harvard professor ... has been accused of rape by Giuffre and the pair are locked in a countersuit over a defamation case.
...

'Virginia Giuffre… one of the women [in the trial] testified she was 14 or 15 years old and she was brought to Jeffrey Epstein for money by Virginia Giuffre, who was well over the age of consent.

'Giuffre then, according to the testimony at the trial, got naked, had sex with Jeffrey Epstein in order to facilitate [the 14-15 year old] having sex with Epstein.

'So Giuffre, under the theory of the prosecution, is guilty as well…'

Derschowitz added that federal prosecutors were 'smart' not to use Giuffre as a witness in the Maxwell trial, claiming she 'would have been a key witness, but the government simply didn't believe her'."
​

Epstein lawyer Alan Dershowitz says Virginia Giuffre could now face sex crime charges | Daily Mail Online

 

[otto]

This article includes pictures of an FBI raid on Epstein's home. Many videocassettes and DVDs. So, likely there is evidence of physical contact.

Photos from 2019 FBI raid on Epstein’s Upper East Side mansion released

Perhaps there is evidence that Giuffre lives in Colorado beyond registering at her mother's house to vote.

"In a filing on Tuesday, Brettler called for the case to be halted or thrown out because Giuffre has long lived in Australia, depriving the Manhattan court of jurisdiction, and cannot support her claim that she is a Colorado resident."
​

Epstein settlement with Giuffre to be made public, affects Prince Andrew case

 

[sds71]

Prince Andrew’s lawyers have requested jurisdictional discovery to argue that Giuffre’s case should not be heard in a U.S. court because she’s actually living in Australia. Epner, the former federal prosecutor, warns that the succeeding on that argument would not be a “get-out-of-litigation-free card” for the prince.

“If there’s not federal jurisdiction here in New York, state courts would take control of the case, and that might be out of the frying pan and into the fire because the level of care and attention that litigants typically get in state court is believed to be lower than in federal court,” Epner noted. “And for certain, the jury pool in New York State Court ballot cases is more likely to be predisposed against Prince Andrew, than the similar federal jury.”

Ghislaine Maxwell's Verdict Won't Close the Jeffrey Epstein Saga. Here's What to Watch Out for in the Courts.

 

[MrsWatson]

Perhaps there is evidence that Giuffre lives in Colorado beyond registering at her mother's house to vote.

"In a filing on Tuesday, Brettler called for the case to be halted or thrown out because Giuffre has long lived in Australia, depriving the Manhattan court of jurisdiction, and cannot support her claim that she is a Colorado resident."
​

Epstein settlement with Giuffre to be made public, affects Prince Andrew case

Is the best defense that Prince Andrew's very high priced legal team can come up with is that Ms Giuffre's address is wrong? That's pathetic. Where are the receipts showing that Prince Andrew couldn't possibly be involved? They certainly aren't coming out with all sorts of denials with evidence to back it up. If they had that sort of evidence, why haven't they produced it to her legal team, hoping she will drop the case?

 

[escape2sc]

Alan Dershowitz would like nothing better than to totally discredit Virginia. IMO his comments about her in the above post are cruel. She was groomed to be sexual assaulted and groomed to recruit others. She was a 19 - 21 year old with a long history of being sexually assaulted when she recruited others and she had been with Epstein/Maxwell for 2 to 4 years by then, The evil of being assaulted, abused and manipulated becomes a new normal . What is Alan Dershowitz’s excuse for being one of Epstein’s attorneys for decades ? If I am not mistaken Dershowitz was one of Epstein’s attorneys negotiating his sweet Florida deal. IMO Dershowitz is a sleazy as Epstein was .

 

[MrsWatson]

Alan Dershowitz would like nothing better than to totally discredit Virginia. IMO his comments about her in the above post are cruel. She was groomed to be sexual assaulted and groomed to recruit others. She was a 19 - 21 year old with a long history of being sexually assaulted when she recruited others and she had been with Epstein/Maxwell for 2 to 4 years by then, The evil of being assaulted, abused and manipulated becomes a new normal . What is Alan Dershowitz’s excuse for being one of Epstein’s attorneys for decades ? If I am not mistaken Dershowitz was one of Epstein’s attorneys negotiating his sweet Florida deal. IMO Dershowitz is a sleazy as Epstein was .

Dershowitz loves to remind people he's a Harvard lawyer. A quick Wikipedia tour of his page reveals some of his notable clients:

Mike Tyson
Leona Helmsley
Julian Assage
Jim Bakker
Patty Hearst
Claus von Bulow
Harvey Weinstein

and of course, OJ.

You are the company you keep.

MOO

 

[otto]

Prince Andrew’s lawyers have requested jurisdictional discovery to argue that Giuffre’s case should not be heard in a U.S. court because she’s actually living in Australia. Epner, the former federal prosecutor, warns that the succeeding on that argument would not be a “get-out-of-litigation-free card” for the prince.

“If there’s not federal jurisdiction here in New York, state courts would take control of the case, and that might be out of the frying pan and into the fire because the level of care and attention that litigants typically get in state court is believed to be lower than in federal court,” Epner noted. “And for certain, the jury pool in New York State Court ballot cases is more likely to be predisposed against Prince Andrew, than the similar federal jury.”

Ghislaine Maxwell's Verdict Won't Close the Jeffrey Epstein Saga. Here's What to Watch Out for in the Courts.

Perhaps, but it does open the door to the question of Giuffre misrepresenting facts. If Giuffre has sworn to affidavits that she lives in Colorado, when she has lived, worked and raised children in Australia for 19 years, what else is she misrepresenting?

 

[otto]

Alan Dershowitz would like nothing better than to totally discredit Virginia. IMO his comments about her in the above post are cruel. She was groomed to be sexual assaulted and groomed to recruit others. She was a 19 - 21 year old with a long history of being sexually assaulted when she recruited others and she had been with Epstein/Maxwell for 2 to 4 years by then, The evil of being assaulted, abused and manipulated becomes a new normal . What is Alan Dershowitz’s excuse for being one of Epstein’s attorneys for decades ? If I am not mistaken Dershowitz was one of Epstein’s attorneys negotiating his sweet Florida deal. IMO Dershowitz is a sleazy as Epstein was .

We also need to keep in mind that Giuffre was trafficked at age 13, and that her father rescued her from that life. He helped her to put her life on track, including helping her to get a job at one of Trump's resorts.

 

[MrsWatson]

We also need to keep in mind that Giuffre was trafficked at age 13, and that her father rescued her from that life. He helped her to put her life on track, including helping her to get a job at one of Trump's resorts.

Which promptly put her in the path of Madame Maxwell to be trafficked again, so maybe her dad shouldn't get so much credit for getting her life back on track. He obviously wasn't keeping such a close eye.

 

[MrsWatson]

A very good article:

'Prince Andrew Should Be Quaking in His Royal Boots': What's Next for the Rich and Famous After the Ghislaine Maxwell Guilty Verdict

The defense team has also tried to block the release of court documents related to Epstein’s 2009 settlement with Giuffre, which bears directly on Andrew’s case. Yet that argument did not succeed: On Wednesday, U.S. District Judges Lewis Kaplan and Loretta Preska in Manhattan ruled that the documents be released on Jan. 3, 2022.

“This is a huge setback for Prince Andrew and his defense,” Florida lawyer Adam Horowitz, who has represented multiple Epstein accusers, tells Rolling Stone. He pointed out that Maxwell is mentioned 23 times in Giuffre’s lawsuit against the British royal. “Had Maxwell been acquitted, she would have been a key witness for Prince Andrew. She could have denied all of the things that she’s accused of doing with regard to Virginia and Prince Andrew. The lawsuit says that Maxwell recruited for Epstein, that she manipulated victims for Epstein, that she intimidated victims and that Virginia was actually introduced to Prince Andrew through Maxwell,” Horowitz said. “Obviously he can no longer call her as a favorable witness,” Horowitz said. “They can’t call Maxwell now to refute anything.”

 

[otto]

Prince Andrew cannot call the primary witness who would clear his name because he committed suicide. Hopefully Giuffre can produce the 8 young girls that she alleges participated in an orgy with Prince Andrew.