UK - Prince Andrew accused of underage sexual relationship, 1999 - 2002

[escape2sc]

If that other girl is who i think...she said she sat on his lap willingly. That she thought he was charming and that she took no offence from anything that happened.

If the other girl was also under 18 years old and sex trafficked by Epstein and Maxwell - it does not matter how charming she thought he was or how willing she was - By US trafficking laws she was a minor victim and unable to consent.

 

[Forest_Wood]

If that other girl is who i think...she said she sat on his lap willingly. That she thought he was charming and that she took no offence from anything that happened.

If a person touches the breast of another person without asking their permission, is it considered a sexual assault?

 

[escape2sc]

Sexual Assault
Any act of violence, either physical or verbal, in which sex is used as a weapon. At its most basic level, sexual assault refers to any form of nonconsensual sexual activity, which encompasses all unwanted sexual acts from intimidation to touching to penetration. Sexual assault is an act of aggression designed to humiliate, intimidate, control, or instill fear.
NY State Legal Definitions — Office of Equal Opportunity, Inclusion, and Resolution Services







———-
A sex trafficked victim under 18 years of age cannot consent

 

[Dotta]

Sexual Assault
Any act of violence, either physical or verbal, in which sex is used as a weapon. At its most basic level, sexual assault refers to any form of nonconsensual sexual activity, which encompasses all unwanted sexual acts from intimidation to touching to penetration. Sexual assault is an act of aggression designed to humiliate, intimidate, control, or instill fear.
NY State Legal Definitions — Office of Equal Opportunity, Inclusion, and Resolution Services







———-
A sex trafficked victim under 18 years of age cannot consent

Does it mean that PA can face also criminal trial?
Maybe if VG wins the civil lawsuit?

 

[investikater]

A lot of people are talking about VRGs claims of being a victim of trafficking as if that is proven fact.

Can you please show me where this has been proven legally?

 

[JDG]

Does it mean that PA can face also criminal trial?
Maybe if VG wins the civil lawsuit?

in Great Britain, PA has not committed any crime. She was of legal age and nothing has been proven otherwise, so not as things stand, no.

 

[UK Girl]

Sexual Assault
Any act of violence, either physical or verbal, in which sex is used as a weapon. At its most basic level, sexual assault refers to any form of nonconsensual sexual activity, which encompasses all unwanted sexual acts from intimidation to touching to penetration. Sexual assault is an act of aggression designed to humiliate, intimidate, control, or instill fear.
NY State Legal Definitions — Office of Equal Opportunity, Inclusion, and Resolution Services







———-
A sex trafficked victim under 18 years of age cannot consent

the other girl was not below 18 though and she has made the incident sound like harmless play...that she sat on his lap of her volition...that she thought he was charming and she took no offence...so...not sure thats going to fly tbh. VGs lawyer mentioned the two victims..she doesnt seem to see herself as a victim.

Key figure in case against Prince Andrew is former student who claims she met him at Epstein mansion | Daily Mail Online

 

[escape2sc]

the other girl was not below 18 though and she has made the incident sound like harmless play...that she sat on his lap of her volition...that she thought he was charming and she took no offence...so...not sure thats going to fly tbh. VGs lawyer mentioned the two victims..she doesnt seem to see herself as a victim.

Key figure in case against Prince Andrew is former student who claims she met him at Epstein mansion | Daily Mail Online

from the link you shared

"Now 41, she alleges it was there that the Queen’s second son groped her in an incident during which a latex Spitting Image puppet of the duke was used to abuse Miss Roberts, then 17, with Maxwell in attendance."

"As a college student 20 years ago, Johanna Sjoberg was lured by Ghislaine Maxwell into Jeffrey Epstein’s ‘pyramid of sexual abuse’ and says that within days she met Prince Andrew at the tycoon’s Manhattan mansion."

Johanna does confirm Virginia, age 17, was assaulted by Andrew.
Although over age 18, Johanna describing her time with Epstein and Maxwell as a "pyramid of sexual abuse" sure sounds like identifying as a victim to me . IMO

 

[UK Girl]

from the link you shared

"Now 41, she alleges it was there that the Queen’s second son groped her in an incident during which a latex Spitting Image puppet of the duke was used to abuse Miss Roberts, then 17, with Maxwell in attendance."

"As a college student 20 years ago, Johanna Sjoberg was lured by Ghislaine Maxwell into Jeffrey Epstein’s ‘pyramid of sexual abuse’ and says that within days she met Prince Andrew at the tycoon’s Manhattan mansion."

Johanna does confirm Virginia, age 17, was assaulted by Andrew.
Although over age 18, Johanna describing her time with Epstein and Maxwell as a "pyramid of sexual abuse" sure sounds like identifying as a victim to me . IMO

Perhaps. She confirmed they had sex. She did not say it was against VG wishes. She also made the puppet incident sound different to the other version. As the article said in her own words that it was like harmless play.

 

[escape2sc]

Perhaps. She confirmed they had sex. She did not say it was against VG wishes. She also made the puppet incident sound different to the other version. As the article said in her own words that it was like harmless play.

I know you have seen the previous posts on US law concerning sex trafficked victims under the age of 18 - but I will remind you once again. Victims of sex trafficking under the age of 18 are minors and cannot consent. Virginia was 17 and a victim of sex trafficking so she could not consent - not to Epstein, not to Maxwell and not to Andrew touching her breast and not to ANY of Epstein's friends touching her or having sex with her. Thank you for sharing the article with Johanna confirming Andrew did indeed assault 17 year old sex trafficking victim - Virginia. Oh and once again - it matters not on whether Andrew knew her age or that she was trafficked - ignorance of age is not a defense against sexual assault in New York.

 

[UK Girl]

I know you have seen the previous posts on US law concerning sex trafficked victims under the age of 18 - but I will remind you once again. Victims of sex trafficking under the age of 18 are minors and cannot consent. Virginia was 17 and a victim of sex trafficking so she could not consent - not to Epstein, not to Maxwell and not to Andrew touching her breast and not to ANY of Epstein's friends touching her or having sex with her. Thank you for sharing the article with Johanna confirming Andrew did indeed assault 17 year old sex trafficking victim - Virginia. Oh and once again - it matters not on whether Andrew knew her age or that she was trafficked - ignorance of age is not a defense against sexual assault in New York.

I guess different people will take different things from that article tbh.

 

[UK Girl]

Does it mean that PA can face also criminal trial?
Maybe if VG wins the civil lawsuit?

the police said they wanted to speak to Andrew as a witness...

btw on the same yardstick if Andrew wins the civil lawsuit is he entitled to sue? just curious?

 

[investikater]

I know you have seen the previous posts on US law concerning sex trafficked victims under the age of 18 - but I will remind you once again. Victims of sex trafficking under the age of 18 are minors and cannot consent. Virginia was 17 and a victim of sex trafficking so she could not consent - not to Epstein, not to Maxwell and not to Andrew touching her breast and not to ANY of Epstein's friends touching her or having sex with her. Thank you for sharing the article with Johanna confirming Andrew did indeed assault 17 year old sex trafficking victim - Virginia. Oh and once again - it matters not on whether Andrew knew her age or that she was trafficked - ignorance of age is not a defense against sexual assault in New York.

I'm still failing in my research to find proof of this. Can you show me where and how this has been legally or objectively established?

A lot of people are talking about VRGs claims of being a victim of trafficking as if that is proven fact.

Can you please show me where this has been proven legally?

 

[UK Girl]

I'm still failing in my research to find proof of this. Can you show me where and how this has been legally or objectively established?

Carolynn said..in connection with Andrew that she did not believe VG was coerced at all which makes it sound that in her opinion it was VGS choice

 

[investikater]

If a person touches the breast of another person without asking their permission, is it considered a sexual assault?

that depends on the circumstances

a stranger - probably

someone you have a sexual relationship with - probably not, but maybe

someone you are mutually flirting with before entering into a sexual relationship - maybe, maybe not

every incidence is different

often people in sexual relationships don't verbally ask every single time they touch their sex partner, they communicate non verbally

which all gets very complicated and confusing when viewed through a legal lens

 

[CP244]

Carolynn said..in connection with Andrew that she did not believe VG was coerced at all which makes it sound that in her opinion it was VGS choice

How would Carolyn know what happened long before she met VG?

 

[UK Girl]

How would Carolyn know what happened long before she met VG?

She met VG before VG went to London. She said that VG contacted her showing off she had slept with the Prince.

Virginia Giuffre told Epstein victim ‘I had sex with Prince Andrew’, Ghislaine Maxwell witness claims (msn.com)

 

[CrimeAway]

RSBM.

The Brits seem to have a totally different take on VG. She was of age, although he 2as nearly 40, he did Not commit a crime.

I don't know which Brits you are referring to, but the Brits I have spoken to are outraged by JE, GM and PA's alleged conduct. JMO.

 

[CP244]

A lot of people are talking about VRGs claims of being a victim of trafficking as if that is proven fact.

Can you please show me where this has been proven legally?

No, it hasn't mainly because Epstein killed himself and PA refuses to be interviewed by the FBI.

 

[CP244]

RSBM.

I don't know which Brits you are referring to, but the Brits I have spoken to are outraged by JE, GM and PA's alleged conduct. JMO.

I agree and while legally he may get off, the court of public opinion will not be so generous to him. Canadians and every Commonwealth country where the Queen is their Queen too, are disgusted with him.