GUILTY UK - Rebecca Watts, 16, Bristol, 19 Feb 2015 #11

[CoverMeCagney]

She's got to really, to fit her story of being the scared abused partner.

But would she even use that story if she was complicit in it? Shouldn't she be batting her eyelashes and saying "I don't know how on earth this happened your honour, he is such a loving partner and a great daddy" in the hope of him getting a lesser sentence. If she was involved in this, and they agreed he'd take the rap, she is now properly stitching him up...

(playing devils advocate with myself here, I still think she must know something, but I don't get why she's making it worse for him)

 

[Tortoise]

[h=3]'It was terrifying' - Moment Matthews stabbed himself with fork[/h]Hoare went to college and studied child care aged 17, the jury heard.
She said the couple had good times and bad times which depended on Matthews’ mood.
Hoare said: “He could be very funny.”
The jury heard about a hair pulling incident at their home. It was the first time Matthews assaulted her.
She said: “We were arguing over something. I sat on the end of the bed. He lost it and grabbed me by the hair and pulled me to the other side of the bed.
“Afterwards he was very, very sorry.”
During a previous argument Hoare told Matthews to get out and leave - and he started stabbing himself with a fork, the jury heard.
She said: “He was eating something and had a fork in his hand and started stabbing himself in the chest and was scrapping the fork down his face.
“It was terrifying.
“During another row he almost ran at me and put his hands round my neck and strangled me. It was horrible - I couldn’t breathe, I felt panic, I was scared.
“We didn’t go out for a day or two until the red mark around my neck was gone.”
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/becky-watts-murder-trial-live-6733548

 

[Tortoise]

[h=3]'Nathan wanted help with his mental health'[/h]On another occasion Matthews shoved Hoare into the door and screamed at her, she told the court.
Hoare told the jury: “He has a tone of voice, you kind of get to know it from the violence.
“He would clench his fist, throw something at you but he wouldn’t actually do anything to me.
“It made me feel scared because I didn’t know what he was going to do.
“I’ve seen him argue with other people but not in the way I’ve just described.”
Matthews punched a wall at a doctor’s surgery, the jury heard.
Hoare said: “Nathan wanted help with his mental health. He was getting annoyed because he couldn’t get his words out. He was afraid the doctor would tell social services.
“Then he just exploded, I heard the bang and apologised to the doctor.”

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/becky-watts-murder-trial-live-6733548

 

[Tortoise]

[h=3]'Nathan persuaded me to have threesomes with woman pal'[/h]Hoare was asked which of the pair was most into their threesomes with a woman friend.
She said: “Nathan.
“Before it happened Nathan had mentioned it quite a few times, I was always against it.
“But he kind of persuaded me.”
The jury heard Hoare had experimented sexually with another girl when she was younger.
She said: “I was 13 or 14, it was another girl and it lasted a week - just kissing and on-top-of-clothes fondling.
“I exaggerated to Nathan to make myself seem more exciting - more appealing.”

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/becky-watts-murder-trial-live-6733548

 

[YidArmyRach]

I don't think we can assume that. Smoking itself isn't a logical thing to do, not when we know how harmful it is, yet people still do it. I can see a certain logic in someone thinking "I'm not strong enough to give up smoking myself, but at least I can avoid doing it inside around my toddler" - perhaps even justifying their own smoking that way.

Not that it is relevant to the case, but smoking would be far more harmful to the unborn children she is carrying than to a toddler who is out in the fresh air with her. And if she was that concerned about smoking around the toddler, why not leave the toddler inside whilst she went for a smoke outside?

At the end of the day, this cigarette break may never have happened anyway. It could just be her alibi. We might be slating for her something that she didn't even do! However, if your alibi to avoid being accused of doing something bad, is that you were smoking whilst pregnant with twins, then what you are avoiding people finding out, must be pretty bad in itself!

 

[Tortoise]

[h=3]'I wanted to leave Nathan Matthews two years ago'[/h]Hoare said she and Matthews were at pal’s flat when they first saw a spoof of a song from the Disney film Frozen called “Do You Want To Hide A Body”.
She said: “We both found it funny.”
Hoare said she wanted to leave Matthews two years ago.
She said: “But I couldn’t, I had nowhere else to go and he would find me - he would be angry.”
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/becky-watts-murder-trial-live-6733548

 

[ColourPurple]

Two things still puzzling me.

It is said the Becky died in her house - has this actually been proven? Could she have been alive when put in the boot and died elsewhere? Apart from the bloodied finger print, what evidence is there to show she met her death in that house? Could MN have thought she was dead when he carried her down the stairs, but she was unconscious at that point?

Secondly, the complete lack of evidence in the bathroom. How can they be absolutely sure that is where she was dismembered? He says it was there, but nobody would take his word as the truth.

Can they really rule out that the death and/or dismemberment was done elsewhere?

I agree, in both cases they seem to be accepting what NM say's happened.

 

[mrazda71]

Not that it is relevant to the case, but smoking would be far more harmful to the unborn children she is carrying than to a toddler who is out in the fresh air with her. And if she was that concerned about smoking around the toddler, why not leave the toddler inside whilst she went for a smoke outside?

At the end of the day, this cigarette break may never have happened anyway. It could just be her alibi. We might be slating for her something that she didn't even do! However, if your alibi to avoid being accused of doing something bad, is that you were smoking whilst pregnant with twins, then what you are avoiding people finding out, must be pretty bad in itself!

I've never ever smoked and I'm very anti smoking full stop and seeing a pregnant woman smoking makes my blood boil BUT I do also understand that it is an addiction and not always just a simple choice.

 

[ColourPurple]

Matthews 'made Hoare pay £5 a week to be able to smoke'

The jury heard Matthews did the food shopping for the couple and Hoare went with him.
Hoare said: “The majority of the time I would ask for something and he would say no - so I had to almost beg in a sense.
“It could be a sandwich or a pastry or a drink. Most of the time he would say no because it had too much fat in it.
“If he wanted something he was a lot more likely to say yes.”
The jury heard Hoare started smoking at 13.
She said: “At the beginning I would buy them but as time went on Nathan would buy them or I would take money out of the bank card and buy cigarettes.
“I would hide the cigarettes.
“Towards the end of the relationship I would take cigarettes to the shop and smoke - I would always have chewing gum in my bag to disguise the smell.
“If he was in a good mood and I was quite persistent he would allow me to smoke.
“He might have just woken up and just generally been in a good mood.”
Hoare said she had to pay Matthews to smoke.
She said: “I would pay him £5 a week for him to allow me to have one pack of cigarettes.”
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/becky-watts-murder-trial-live-6733548

"towards the end of the relationship"

I wonder how NM reacted to her saying that . That it's all over

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Two things still puzzling me.

It is said the Becky died in her house - has this actually been proven? Could she have been alive when put in the boot and died elsewhere? Apart from the bloodied finger print, what evidence is there to show she met her death in that house? Could MN have thought she was dead when he carried her down the stairs, but she was unconscious at that point?

Secondly, the complete lack of evidence in the bathroom. How can they be absolutely sure that is where she was dismembered? He says it was there, but nobody would take his word as the truth.

Can they really rule out that the death and/or dismemberment was done elsewhere?

Good point, he said he checked her pulse and there wasn't one, but he didn't have time to make sure for definite, did he? I wonder when he put her in the boot whether he feared she'd be alive somehow, did he go and check or was he completely sure she was dead? Did he get a second opinion from SH? They'd have know what time AG was due home so would have had time to check, and decide what to do.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

[h=3]'Nathan persuaded me to have threesomes with woman pal'[/h]Hoare was asked which of the pair was most into their threesomes with a woman friend.
She said: “Nathan.
“Before it happened Nathan had mentioned it quite a few times, I was always against it.
“But he kind of persuaded me.”
The jury heard Hoare had experimented sexually with another girl when she was younger.
She said: “I was 13 or 14, it was another girl and it lasted a week - just kissing and on-top-of-clothes fondling.
“I exaggerated to Nathan to make myself seem more exciting - more appealing.”

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/becky-watts-murder-trial-live-6733548

Thank you, Tortoise, I love these summaries you do

 

[ColourPurple]

I think it might be more that she's painting a picture of 'don't ask, don't tell'. That she wouldn't have questioned him when the loo was out of action, for example.

Yet the neighbour hears them arguing and he admits they do have arguments, despite her saying she was too scared to argue with him and didn't any more.

 

[ColourPurple]

But would she even use that story if she was complicit in it? Shouldn't she be batting her eyelashes and saying "I don't know how on earth this happened your honour, he is such a loving partner and a great daddy" in the hope of him getting a lesser sentence. If she was involved in this, and they agreed he'd take the rap, she is now properly stitching him up...

(playing devils advocate with myself here, I still think she must know something, but I don't get why she's making it worse for him)

She's trying to diminish her role in anything an dmake him the dominant force so the worse she makes him sound the better.

 

[sar2them1984]

That might be so their anonymity is protected. If people locally recognise them it can lead to the unintelligent taking out their frustrations on her family as they can't get to her, perhaps.

They have been openly named during the reporting of their evidence

Sent from my SM-N910F using Tapatalk

 

[ColourPurple]

'I wanted to leave Nathan Matthews two years ago'

Hoare said she and Matthews were at pal’s flat when they first saw a spoof of a song from the Disney film Frozen called “Do You Want To Hide A Body”.
She said: “We both found it funny.”
Hoare said she wanted to leave Matthews two years ago.
She said: “But I couldn’t, I had nowhere else to go and he would find me - he would be angry.”
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/becky-watts-murder-trial-live-6733548

The pal she never had!

 

[cottonweaver]

But would she even use that story if she was complicit in it? Shouldn't she be batting her eyelashes and saying "I don't know how on earth this happened your honour, he is such a loving partner and a great daddy" in the hope of him getting a lesser sentence. If she was involved in this, and they agreed he'd take the rap, she is now properly stitching him up...

(playing devils advocate with myself here, I still think she must know something, but I don't get why she's making it worse for him)

I think the circular saw admission is probably the clincher. So that above approach is not going to fly. ( Being glib here, but you follow the drift.)
Yes good to play devil's advocate. IMO pretty sure that NM was an abusive partner but also imagine the guidance from her lawyer.

So far she has presented nothing twisted in watching the Frozen vid, no real sexual interest in girls,no control over own life, victim of DV - all at a vulnerable age atop an horrific childhood where she DEFINITELY was a victim.
These are the key themes the Defence is selling. ( Not disputing there is truth in some/many, but it is a narrative to emphasise aspects which bolster a Defence case.)

 

[ColourPurple]

ITV Becky Trial Retweeted
Victoria Davies ‏@VictoriaITV 3 mins3 minutes ago
Shauna Hoare tells court Nathan Matthews wouldn't let them have heating on or hot water as it cost too much. @ITVBeckyTrial #beckywatts


ITV Becky Trial ‏@ITVBeckyTrial 4 mins4 minutes ago
SH says, there was so many items in their home at the time of Becky’s disappearance, they were “living out of the bedroom” #beckywatts

 

[Alyce]

So if SH wanted to leave NM, over 2 years ago, why end up pregnant for a second time ? Plenty of ways to avoid pregnancy nowadays

 

[mrazda71]

"towards the end of the relationship"

I wonder how NM reacted to her saying that . That it's all over

If she's telling the truth about not being involved with Becky's killing then Nathan will have known that being caught will mean the end of their relationship - she wouldn't stay with him knowing what he'd done. She was scared of his temper already, she'd never stay with him now no matter how sorry he was.

 

[Tortoise]

Good point, he said he checked her pulse and there wasn't one, but he didn't have time to make sure for definite, did he? I wonder when he put her in the boot whether he feared she'd be alive somehow, did he go and check or was he completely sure she was dead? Did he get a second opinion from SH? They'd have know what time AG was due home so would have had time to check, and decide what to do.

I think that was when they stabbed her with the screwdriver. didn't want to take a knife from the kitchen because it would be spotted missing. I think that's how the blood spots were caused on the landing. JMO.