GUILTY UK - Rebecca Watts, 16, Bristol, 19 Feb 2015 #11

[edgedweller]

Were we told what Nathan was wearing?! I'm not sure her attire is relevant.

Yes, he wore jeans, trainers and various light coloured Tshirts.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[LBB]

To row out = a boating metaphor/idiom

To row out to safety

The pros is implying that NM's 'masterful plan' has Shauna at a safe enough distance from all of NM's actions and therefore can't be implicated.

Well, that's how I understand it!

Harriet Hadfield ‏@SkyHarriet 7 mins7 minutes ago
#beckywatts: SH "Nathan had mentioned threesomes quite a few times. I was against it. But he kind of persuaded me to be open to the idea"

Harriet Hadfield ‏@SkyHarriet 6 mins6 minutes ago
#beckywatts: SH on experimenting with a girl aged 13 or 14: "Lasted a week, maybe two. Kissing and on top of clothes fondling."

How old was he at the time? 20 or 21? To encourage young teenage girls to engage in sexual activity is sexual abuse.


hmmm...have I misunderstood and this happened before she met NM?

 

[CoverMeCagney]

She's painting a bleak picture of him. Would she do that if they'd agreed he'd take all the blame and get her off the hook? Or is this the honest truth from an innocent, shocked girlfriend. Hmmmm.... one leg on each side of the fence. :fence:

 

[Callista]

I wonder if NM testimony yesterday would've played out differently had SH taken the stand before him ... who decides these things anyway? Is it their legal teams?

 

[ColourPurple]

How old was he at the time? 20 or 21? To encourage young teenage girls to engage in sexual activity is sexual abuse.

Her experimenting with girls is before she went out with him, rather than him encouraging her to do it.

 

[YidArmyRach]

ITV Becky Trial ‏@ITVBeckyTrial 2 mins2 minutes ago
But, SH says, "I had no where to go, I had nobody else, he would have found me, he would have been angry.” #beckywatts


ITV Becky Trial ‏@ITVBeckyTrial 3 mins3 minutes ago
SH says her friend tried to persuade her to leave NM, and they even came up with a plan to do it #beckywatts

Had nobody else...... yet had a friend helping her. Had no where to go, yet the minute she got back in contact with her mother, she was welcomed to visit and stay overnight.

She had benefits in HER name, even though he was apparently controlling the bank accounts and the house was in HER name. She had so many options available to her, if all of this was true, but for whatever reason(s), didn't take them.

For the first time, I do feel sorry for her. She was let down by her family and by the system. She got into this destructive relationship - no 14 year old should be in any kind of relationship with a man of 21 - when she was still in the care of the local authority (within a foster family). How on earth was that allowed to happen?

I hope her family reflect on their part in all of this mess. At the end of the day, she didn't have much of a chance from day one.

I still don't believe her story - but I do have sympathy for her now, and sad for her that she choose the paths she did.

 

[LBB]

Her experimenting with girls is before she went out with him, rather than him encouraging her to do it.

Thank you, I misunderstood.

 

[ColourPurple]

She's painting a bleak picture of him. Would she do that if they'd agreed he'd take all the blame and get her off the hook? Or is this the honest truth from an innocent, shocked girlfriend. Hmmmm.... one leg on each side of the fence. :fence:

She's got to really, to fit her story of being the scared abused partner.

 

[Tortoise]

First thing the pros should say is what relevance does all this have if you didn't know or suspect anything anyway

exactly this. is she saying I knew but couldn't leave?

 

[ColourPurple]

Had nobody else...... yet had a friend. Had no where to go, yet the minute she got back in contact with her mother, she was welcomed to visit and stay overnight.

She had benefits in HER name, even though he was apparently controlling the bank accounts and the house was in HER name. She had so many options available to her, if all of this was true. For the first time, I do feel sorry for her. She was let down by her family and by the system. She got into this destructive relationship - no 14 year old should be in any kind of relationship with a man of 21.

I hope her family reflect on their part in all of this mess. At the end of the day, she didn't have much of a chance from day one.

I still don't believe her story - but I do have sympathy for her now, and sad for her that she choose the paths she did.

She says she had no friends but they both also say he had no friends either. KD who he turned to in his time of need was an ex work colleague who he had to promise to pay 10k to , to help.

 

[cottonweaver]

There

aren't always witnesses to domestic violence.

In fact, its more usual that there aren't. It's one of the ways the abuser makes their victim think it isn't as bad, that they deserved it etc. The abuser is usually very careful to make sure they aren't violent towards their spouse around other people - and covering up the evidence afterwards eg. tell them you walked into a door / wear a scarf etc.

yes, without a doubt. ( Did think of adding that about silence around the abuse, but presumed it would be taken as granted)
I know quite a few women who have covered up the marks with clothing - victim ends up feeling the shame.

However this will be a central plank of her Defence in a murder case, so I am more critical of just following the line.
Anyway, she has a female friend who has previously persuaded SH and planned with her to leave NM on the QT, so it will be interesting to hear her later, perhaps.

 

[mrazda71]

Had nobody else...... yet had a friend. Had no where to go, yet the minute she got back in contact with her mother, she was welcomed to visit and stay overnight.

She had benefits in HER name, even though he was apparently controlling the bank accounts and the house was in HER name. She had so many options available to her, if all of this was true. For the first time, I do feel sorry for her. She was let down by her family and by the system. She got into this destructive relationship - no 14 year old should be in any kind of relationship with a man of 21.

I hope her family reflect on their part in all of this mess. At the end of the day, she didn't have much of a chance from day one.

I still don't believe her story - but I do have sympathy for her now, and sad for her that she choose the paths she did.

I don't think her family will reflect on anything or feel they have any blame, they didn't care when she was 3, they didn't care when she was 14 and being pursued by a 21 year old man, they didn't care during the years of no contact - why would they care now? I can imagine them selling a Take a Break style story but caring? No.

 

[ColourPurple]

yes, without a doubt. ( Did think of adding that about silence around the abuse, but presumed it would be taken as granted)
I know quite a few women who have covered up the marks with clothing - victim ends up feeling the shame.

However this will be a central plank of her Defence in a murder case, so I am more critical of just following the line.
Anyway, she has a female friend who has previously persuaded SH and planned with her to leave NM on the QT, so it will be interesting to hear her later, perhaps.

The friend gave evidence earlier. It was the one who they had the threesome with, whose identity was protected..

 

[YidArmyRach]

Two things still puzzling me.

It is said the Becky died in her house - has this actually been proven? Could she have been alive when put in the boot and died elsewhere? Apart from the bloodied finger print, what evidence is there to show she met her death in that house? Could NM have thought she was dead when he carried her down the stairs, but she was unconscious at that point?

Secondly, the complete lack of evidence in the bathroom. How can they be absolutely sure that is where she was dismembered? He says it was there, but nobody would take his word as the truth.

Can they really rule out that the death and/or dismemberment was done elsewhere?

 

[Kaly99]

I doubt she would be worried about smoking near the child, when she clearly isn't worried about the effects of smoking on her 2 unborn children.

I don't think we can assume that. Smoking itself isn't a logical thing to do, not when we know how harmful it is, yet people still do it. I can see a certain logic in someone thinking "I'm not strong enough to give up smoking myself, but at least I can avoid doing it inside around my toddler" - perhaps even justifying their own smoking that way.

 

[Tortoise]

[h=3]Hoare taken into care aged three or four[/h]Co-accused Shauna Hoare has just started giving evidence on Day 17 of the Becky Watts trial.
The jury heard she is the youngest of four children. Her mum and dad each went on to have four more children with different partners.
Hoare was taken into care aged three or four. She went to live with foster parents with her sister.
The jury heard Hoare was brought up by six different sets of foster parents in Somerset.
She visited her mum at weekends.
When Hoare was 13 she moved into Bristol to live with her mum.
The jury heard she met Nathan Matthews for drinks through her elder sister.
He became her boyfriend quite quickly and spent nights with Hoare at her mum’s home.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/becky-watts-murder-trial-live-6733548

 

[Tortoise]

[h=3]Hoare met Matthews when she was 15 and he was 22[/h]The jury heard after Hoare and her mum moved house Matthews came to stay every night in the teenager’s bedroom in a converted garage.
Hoare said she was aged 15 when she met Matthews. He was aged 22.
She said: “I kind of stopped going to school before I met Nathan.”
Social workers later helped Hoare move into a shared three-bedroom house in Bristol with two other girls.
Matthews stayed with Hoare even though he was not supposed to be living there, the jury heard.
Hoare was still in her teens when she moved to a house in Cotton Mill Lane, Bristol.
Matthews lived in the house with her but kept it quiet because Hoare’s benefits did not allow him to reside there, the jury heard.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/becky-watts-murder-trial-live-6733548

 

[Tortoise]

[h=3]Matthews 'made Hoare pay £5 a week to be able to smoke'[/h]The jury heard Matthews did the food shopping for the couple and Hoare went with him.
Hoare said: “The majority of the time I would ask for something and he would say no - so I had to almost beg in a sense.
“It could be a sandwich or a pastry or a drink. Most of the time he would say no because it had too much fat in it.
“If he wanted something he was a lot more likely to say yes.”
The jury heard Hoare started smoking at 13.
She said: “At the beginning I would buy them but as time went on Nathan would buy them or I would take money out of the bank card and buy cigarettes.
“I would hide the cigarettes.
“Towards the end of the relationship I would take cigarettes to the shop and smoke - I would always have chewing gum in my bag to disguise the smell.
“If he was in a good mood and I was quite persistent he would allow me to smoke.
“He might have just woken up and just generally been in a good mood.”
Hoare said she had to pay Matthews to smoke.
She said: “I would pay him £5 a week for him to allow me to have one pack of cigarettes.”
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/becky-watts-murder-trial-live-6733548

 

[Alyce]

Had nobody else...... yet had a friend helping her. Had no where to go, yet the minute she got back in contact with her mother, she was welcomed to visit and stay overnight.

She had benefits in HER name, even though he was apparently controlling the bank accounts and the house was in HER name. She had so many options available to her, if all of this was true, but for whatever reason(s), didn't take them.

For the first time, I do feel sorry for her. She was let down by her family and by the system. She got into this destructive relationship - no 14 year old should be in any kind of relationship with a man of 21 - when she was still in the care of the local authority (within a foster family). How on earth was that allowed to happen?

I hope her family reflect on their part in all of this mess. At the end of the day, she didn't have much of a chance from day one.

I still don't believe her story - but I do have sympathy for her now, and sad for her that she choose the paths she did.

That was my thought too ....... CML was her house , NM was not supposed to be there officially.
Plus, she only had the fall out with her mother about 2-3 years ago, so if she had wanted to break free from NM before that, she ( hopefully ) had her mother to turn to.
It is a very sad story re her childhood, I cant begin to imagine how it must feel to be put into care and then shunted around six different foster parents in 10 years. But that does not excuse what happened to Becky and I still believe she was directly involved in the killing.

 

[Callista]

exactly this. is she saying I knew but couldn't leave?

I think it might be more that she's painting a picture of 'don't ask, don't tell'. That she wouldn't have questioned him when the loo was out of action, for example.