GUILTY UK - Rebecca Watts, 16, Bristol, 19 Feb 2015 #11

[mrazda71]

but, she did have pregnancy concerns the following morning...

Did she have pregnancy concerns? Or did she make an Internet search concerning 'pregnancy'?

I think when I was pregnant with my son I probably Internet searched pregnancy questions about 100 times a day even though he was my 4th!!

 

[Tortoise]

Going back to the suggestion of NM leaving CML with Becky's body in the time window- so you have calculated that he had possibly 40mins to do this.

It seems to fit with the urgency described by Webb, sometime she est between 11am-2pm



So SH stays at Crown Lane and can say NM just nipped out if need be. He drives a different way and is not picked up by CCTV?



Read more: http://www.westerndailypress.co.uk/...tory-27946980-detail/story.html#ixzz3qCOA0Ib4

or, SH goes with him. I think voices were heard as well as furniture shifting.

 

[Tortoise]

Did she have pregnancy concerns? Or did she make an Internet search concerning 'pregnancy'?

I think when I was pregnant with my son I probably Internet searched pregnancy questions about 100 times a day even though he was my 4th!!

the link says pregnancy concerns, bit of a strange coincidence with the activities of the previous day.

 

[mrazda71]

or, SH goes with him. I think voices were heard as well as furniture shifting.

Was that when a neighbour reported hearing a male voice say one single word but they didn't catch what it was?

If he cut himself I imagine it was 'FLUFF' ... or ... something like it

 

[cottonweaver]

or, SH goes with him. I think voices were heard as well as furniture shifting.

well acc to WDP, VOICES are previous day before BW disappears

"A next-door neighbour of murdered Becky Watts' stepbrother and girlfriend has told a court the couple were screaming the night before the teenager went missing.

Sarah Webb, a next-door neighbour of Nathan Matthews and Shauna Hoare, described the couple as usually "very, very quiet''.

"They were never friendly and didn't want to talk," she said.

She described hearing noises in the evening of February 18 – the day before Becky went missing from her home.
There was shouting and screaming between Shauna and Nathan," Mrs Webb said.

"It was early evening, I was putting my little one to bed so it was between 6 and 7 maybe. It was for more than half an hour. It was very unusual.

"They were very, very quiet people. We never heard bumps or banging or people on the stairs. We often thought that they weren't actually in."

The following day is 11-2 and one man's voice and the urgency.
I am having to look at 3 papers per day as all the reports are different.
I think clever Shauna stays at CL!

 

[cottonweaver]

Anyway the Webb account also seems to demonstrate that Shauna's house was not generally one of loud rows or commotion, which is interesting in itself in relation to the implications of Shauna's testimony about NM.

Sounds like a very quiet life there if Webb thought they weren't even home most of the time.

 

[musicaljoke]

Anyway the Webb account also seems to demonstrate that Shauna's house was not generally one of loud rows or commotion, which is interesting in itself in relation to the implications of Shauna's testimony about NM.

Sounds like a very quiet life there if Webb thought they weren't even home most of the time.

Yes, that was something I didn't expected. However, I did expect to hear testimony that the neighbours heard the saw, but it doesn't seem so. Did you find where anyone heard the saw?

 

[PrimeSuspect]

This is one thing in SH's favour, IMO. If they both knew what had happened, why stay? Surely they're much better off going home and starting to plan getting rid of the body. Perhaps it would be remarked upon if they just popped in and out, or perhaps AG had mentioned looking forward to seeing her granddaughter. Still if they are at Crown Hill nearly every day anyway, there's no need to stay all day. This makes me think that NM was the only one that knew, and that he felt he had to act normally, which for them would be to hang around most of the day, stay warm in the Galsworthy's house, who presumably would have the heating on in February! Or perhaps he was almost paralysed by the fear and shock of what he'd done and couldn't think of what to do next.


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I think it was to control the situation, preventing AG or DG making calls to the police or questioning neighbours or Becky's friends. Basically playing for time. NM and SH are 'witnesses' to Becky leaving, so whatever happened to Becky, must have happened 'out there' by a 'stranger'. DG and AG have to be convinced that Becky will walk through their front door at any moment.
No one reportedly said that NM or SH acted differently than usual. Becky was dead and in the boot of the car, even if they went home, she couldn't be taken out in broad daylight, better off staying at the scene and aware of the conversation between everyone present or whoever turned up later. JMO

 

[PrimeSuspect]

quoting my own post above, spotted a number 5 to go on the list -

5. I think you would say "I was at the sink". 'would have been at the sink' can only mean in her story.

I agree.

Regarding the noises, why would NM carelessly slam doors? If he is desperately trying to avoid SH seeing or hearing anything suspicious in the cold light of day, I'm sure he would close the door gently.

If we are to believe SH's non involvement in the 'before' scenario, NM would be at pains creeping around ever so quietly. Stomping down stairs and slamming doors will bring a person into the living area, just out of curiosity.
This is what makes it unbelievable. A criminal in the dead of night may sneak into a house and bedroom, assault and suffocate a victim, and then leaves quietly without disturbing sleeping occupants in the next room. SH is on the premises, wide awake in broad daylight and hears only one set of sounds, stomping downstairs and a door slam?!

NM was having a battle with Becky for between 5-10 mins, killed her and was making multiple trips downstairs, stomping, slamming doors, like he didn't care if he was caught.
So when SH eventually came into the lounge room and NM (sweating profusely) was seated on the sofa, she would have remarked that she heard noises, must have been Becky going out and he agreed?
And NM never went back upstairs to check he cleared or removed evidence? These two obsessed with Becky's life and whatnot, yet this day, while Becky is 'out', SH and NM stayed seated till AG arrived home ?

Sorry I'm rehashing over it, but I can't visualize the setting and how NM got away with it! :thinking:

 

[PrimeSuspect]

Had never seen this bit before -

[FONT=open_sans]Friday, February 20:[/FONT]
[FONT=open_sans]Matthews texted his work and said he was not coming in as he had a problem with his car.[/FONT]
[FONT=open_sans]A device belonging to either Matthews or Hoare is used to search a concern over a pregnancy.[/FONT]
[FONT=open_sans]

Read more: http://www.bristolpost.co.uk/Becky-...tory-27953184-detail/story.html#ixzz3qBrctoLs
Follow us: @BristolPost on Twitter | bristolpost on Facebook

Also from the same article -

Monday, February 23:
Police try to get into Cotton Mill Lane in the morning. The curtains were drawn and no one answers the door.
6pm: Officers go back to Cotton Mill Lane. They are not home. They ring the couple and try to persuade them to return home and let them into their property so it can be searched. They agree to talk to officers at Southmead instead as they won't come back to Cotton Mill Lane, saying they have dinner plans.



[/FONT]

This is interesting. SH stressed after the whole ordeal? If SH was helping subdue Becky, was she kicked in the scuffle? If she wasn't present and knew nothing, just a coincidence?

 

[TupeloMz]

I agree.

Regarding the noises, why would NM carelessly slam doors? If he is desperately trying to avoid SH seeing or hearing anything suspicious in the cold light of day, I'm sure he would close the door gently.

If we are to believe SH's non involvement in the 'before' scenario, NM would be at pains creeping around ever so quietly. Stomping down stairs and slamming doors will bring a person into the living area, just out of curiosity.
This is what makes it unbelievable. A criminal in the dead of night may sneak into a house and bedroom, assault and suffocate a victim, and then leaves quietly without disturbing sleeping occupants in the next room. SH is on the premises, wide awake in broad daylight and hears only one set of sounds, stomping downstairs and a door slam?!

NM was having a battle with Becky for between 5-10 mins, killed her and was making multiple trips downstairs, stomping, slamming doors, like he didn't care if he was caught.
So when SH eventually came into the lounge room and NM (sweating profusely) was seated on the sofa, she would have remarked that she heard noises, must have been Becky going out and he agreed?
And NM never went back upstairs to check he cleared or removed evidence? These two obsessed with Becky's life and whatnot, yet this day, while Becky is 'out', SH and NM stayed seated till AG arrived home ?

Sorry I'm rehashing over it, but I can't visualize the setting and how NM got away with it! :thinking:

I totally agree. It is mind boggling to me how he/she/they managed to commit such a heinous crime with virtually no evidence left behind. No witnesses, nothing that can't be explained ( although their explanations are unbelievable to me).

 

[PrimeSuspect]

Of course they could. The pair in the photo of Haloween may not even be the same pair he says he used on Becky, they may have been a cheap fake toy replica type unless you have seen it reported elsewhere. He may have two pairs? He had 2 stun guns after all.

As an aside I just found a clearer quote on those other charges:

“Avon and Somerset Police said the pair have also been charged with possession of a prohibited weapon and four counts of making indecent images of children.

Matthews has also been charged with sexual assault and voyeurism. The alleged sexual offences do not relate to Becky.”
Presuming stun gun is in that charge.
Time will tell on this.

Read more:*http://www.westerndailypress.co.uk/...ory-26744345-detail/story.html#ixzz3qBsha2hA*

These extra charges will be interesting of what comes of it. May give a clearer impression of NM and his state of mind, if these all occurred in the last 18 mths, more evidence of him spiraling out of control. If the sexual assault and voyeurism charges are proven beyond a doubt, NM was definately a danger to society. Will wait and see.

 

[TupeloMz]

And yet watching the ID channel.... Such as this happens all the time... Amazingly

 

[iclaudia]

Probably something that her solicitor has said to her.

On a separate note I found it odd that her solicitor allowed the line of questioning that the interviews were taking. The interviewer said that SH needed to prove that she wasn't involved. It's up to the Police to prove that she was, it's not up to her to prove that she wasn't. Was really surprised that her solicitor did not interrupt and point that out.

I think what the police were rather cleverly doing was pointing out to her that it all looks Very Bad for her - the heaps of circumstantial evidence - so it is very much in her interest to tell them as much as possible because ANYTHING she thinks of could help her case.

While it's up to the Jury to decide her guilt or innocence and while yes, she is innocent until proven guilty, between the point that she is interviewed and the point at which the Jury retire to consider their verdict, it is her job to do whatever she can to prove to them that she is innocent. There's a lot at stake - the rest of her life...

 

[iclaudia]

yes, I think you're right. it is definitely a puzzle because we haven't got anywhere near the truth still at this stage.

imagine, we could be dealing with one who admits manslaughter but didn't actually kill Becky or want her dead at all, and one who denies all knowledge of anything being the one who did it!!

You don't know that; it's your belief that we haven't heard the truth...

 

[Bathsheba]

I have a feeling that SH will be given a short sentence and then freed with a new identity a la Maxine Carr. The next few days in court are crucial for her though "obviously".

 

[cottonweaver]

Yes, that was something I didn't expected. However, I did expect to hear testimony that the neighbours heard the saw, but it doesn't seem so. Did you find where anyone heard the saw?

No mention of sawing.
However there is a neighbour, Hannah Barcroft who testified same day as Webb. I only spent about 15 mins looking but couldn't find any quotes of her testimony, but may be worth another poster having a proper look.

 

[Clio]

Regarding Becky having being put in a suitcase (red one with a ripped top) - WARNING GRAPHIC CONTENT

The problem with this, for me, is timing and rigor. If her body was put into a suitcase shortly after death, either at CH or CML, then she would have had to be curled up. Rigor would set in and after 8-12 hours the body would be stiff. This would last for a while until the effect of rigor stated to reverse, which would be 36-48 hours later.

In order to use the saw for dismemberment, I would think that her limbs would need to be straightened out in order to make the clean cuts. According to the timeline we have been given, the dismemberment happened (or started at least) just over 24 hours after she was killed i.e after NM had bought the saw at 12.51pm on Fri 20th whilst he was alone at CML.

So surely,

1) she wasn't put in the suitcase prior to dismemberment
Or
2) she was put in the suitcase shortly after her death, but the dismemberment didn't happen until later than Fri 20th.

http://www.exploreforensics.co.uk/rigor-mortis-and-lividity.html

 

[Clio]

No mention of sawing.
However there is a neighbour, Hannah Barcroft who testified same day as Webb. I only spent about 15 mins looking but couldn't find any quotes of her testimony, but may be worth another poster having a proper look.

AFAIK, there were no tweets and I have seen no reports of what the witness HB said, other than that she discussed the noises and timings with SW.

Remember SW said that having heard the noises, she thought they were doing DIY. Something gave her that idea. The sound of a saw perhaps?

 

[MissUnderstood]

These extra charges will be interesting of what comes of it. May give a clearer impression of NM and his state of mind, if these all occurred in the last 18 mths, more evidence of him spiraling out of control. If the sexual assault and voyeurism charges are proven beyond a doubt, NM was definately a danger to society. Will wait and see.

I wonder who these sexual assaults relate too? Why were sexual assault charges added at the same time all this happened but it's not related to becky! Could it be something in these photos found which led to the other charge! Pics of a victim maybe. Maybe someone police questioned during the investigation?


MOO!!