GUILTY UK - Rebecca Watts, 16, Bristol, 19 Feb 2015 #15

[edgedweller]

I believe she was involved. I don't believe NM's story. Neither do I believe that SH knew or saw nothing. I don't believe any vampire element.

I believe they both disliked Becky intensely. I believe they caused trouble for Becky with her family (SH talking about the will being changed to leave them the house, her police interviews complaining that Becky never got punished ect - she was far too involved in Becky's business).

I don't believe SH was as controlled or scared of NM as she claims (She doesn't leave him alone on her FB account, and the nature of her posts go against everything she says about their relationship and her defence).

I believe they went to Becky's house that day with something in mind, as they didn't need to be there, and they certainly didn't need to stay there after dropping off an very unimportant item. I'm unsure of motive. I think something happened which wasn't planned - certainly not planned to end in her death.

I don't believe the kidnap plan that NM has told. I don't believe he could have done what he claims if his fibro is as bad as he claims (and his defence team have done nothing to claim he is fitter, stronger and healthier than he claims).

I don't believe SH thought he was buying things to clear up the house - when they were buying reams of cling film, bin bags, rubble bags, bleach and rubber gloves.

I don't believe that she thought he was fixing a toilet by using an electric saw for hours/days at a time, and I don't believe that she didn't need the toilet very much; not even first thing in the morning whilst pregnant.

I think her arranging to see her estranged mother at the exact time the police wanted to search is a sign of her being complicit. No matter how much she might have wanted to reconnect with her mum, I don't believe an innocent person would put that above the importance of the police carrying out checks for a missing girl.

I think there must be more evidence available to the jury that we haven't been privvy too, as I don't believe their case/evidence can really be as tame as it came across.

All of the above stop me believing she is innocent - however, I don't know if, legally, that is the same as proving she is guilty!

I think I agree with you on virtually every point. I do think the fact that Becky was going to be on her own in the house during the day (a rare occurrence if AG was virtually housebound and BW was at college), is important. The tin was an excuse to go round. Perhaps they just wanted to have it out with her over the 'trip hazards' and general attitude, and it led to a confrontation, and tempers were lost. People like them cannot see the irony of their own opinions - living in a dump but telling other people how to behave. Or maybe Becky realised they were in the house and decided to ask NM for the £100? He flew off the handle, thinking "she gets enough cash and stuff from my mother, how dare she nag me?!" Or similar. I think if they'd planned to kill her that day, they would've done a better job of hiding the body. It's a shame we'll probably never find out for sure.
The sex slave theory is far-fetched but stranger things have happened. Very difficult for them to do that with a toddler and all that junk in CML though. There are so many variables in this case! I really hope we find out more in the press once sentencing is over, as we did with Tabak.


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[Crazy Mama]

IMO I really think he/NM hasn't elaborated much else to the facts of the case other than what we know. Because he wants 'his' family to be spared of the stomach churning details he has in his head. NM wanted love.. a Mothers love. And when BW took a huge part of his mom/AG in those first few years when AG spent months as an unpaid TA in BW'S classroom. That was the pinnacle for me..... For whatever reason NM was sent to live with his Grandmother. Yes, his Grandmother did a fine job of raising him. But the seeds of doubt had already been sewn in his mind... 'why?'
What did this 'Becky' girl have what he didn't have? She in fact 'stole' his mother. And I don't think he's ever forgot that betrayal by someone he loved so much. To distance themselves from him. I feel much resentment followed from this point on.
I really think that it's unrequited love.
There ain't no love like a Mothers love. And NM hated BW for that.
He just wants his mother to love him. He ' got rid of the problem that was Becky.' His mother and stepdad didn't have to go thru all the anguish of the big arguments. Stuff left lying around. His mom was safe now. And it was down to him she was safe.
That's how I see it. The letter he wrote his Mother while on remand. We don't know it's contents. But I'm sure it reads something like ' I'm so sorry mom. But I couldn't bear her being so nasty to you. Forgive me I love you mom' .... to that effect.

Sorry to babble on. Jmoo
#justiceforBecky♡

And with SH pregnant with twins and already having one baby he just couldn't understand how a mother would not want their baby with them. His head was jumbled up and I have no doubt that BW was just stealing his place.

 

[sar2them1984]

BIB yes, if Webb neighbour works, even part time, they would know her shift patterns etc ( as they are home 4 days a week) and perhaps could easily do some of the heavy lifting when Webb is out.

Then we come back to the alleged fibro again - she would need to help him shift stuff, if that is to be believed.
Repeating myself but why didn't Pros cross x him on this in order to help convict SH as his able assistant - surely when Pros ignore something like this it means it wouldn't help their case. ( ie. he has a diagnosis for it. )

Next - Aren't DSS/wheoever so "onto " these disability claims now* - how could he fake the fibro with them?

sartherm - do you have any knowledge of that * in your professional work?

The DSS are getting around to having formal interviews with people who are claiming certain benefits such as the old Disability Living allowance (DLA) and Incapacity Benefit to check whether they are actually fit for work.

The interviews themselves are carried out by an external agency and comprise if a formal face to face interview plus a requirement to receive supporting evidence from doctors/professionals etc.

I've known people who are perfectly capable of working get a pass (iirc they don't have to be interviewed again for 5 years) allowing them to continue claiming benefits when imo seeing them virtually every day that would be able to hold down a job albeit maybe not a full time one.

I don't know what NM was claiming but if he was claiming some kind of disability benefit then either he's not been interviewed yet or managed to get the supporting evidence to back up his fibro claims...if he's friendly enough with the doctor or the doctor believes he has it (if don't believe there's a test for fibro) then this may be entirely possible...

Other than that the DSS wouldn't really "check" his issues unless NM had been reported by somebody

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[edgedweller]

4. It is more unlikely than not, that a couple going together on a morning when the circumstances are exactly right for 'the plan', are acting together and not with single purposes.

RSBM

do you mean more likely than not?
If so I totally agree!


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[Tortoise]

RSBM

do you mean more likely than not?
If so I totally agree!


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gosh I must have lost the plot. Yes ty, I shall edit my post!

 

[Clio]

Great post, Rach. No need to quote it all.

As per the judge's directions, common sense and drawing inferences should get us there.

If she had only told the truth about something, I might have been willing to give her the benefit of the doubt.

My big problem with this is murder/manslaughter being dependant on kidnapping (for SH). I would have much less of a issue if they’d stuck with false imprisonment. But I'm probably splitting hairs....

 

[Crazy Mama]

Honestly I think that they chose that day to go over and move or remove some recording device from BW room. They were both in on it and they forgot about half term. When confronted by BW he panicked and tried to keep her quiet. A fight ensued and one thing led to another. At some point I think that SH ran up to see what the commotion was about and found him wrestling with BW and assisted him in 'quieting' her down. From there they went a step too far.

I don't believe that they had any plan to kidnap, molest or kill. They were caught and it just happened. SH ended up super angry with the late BW for putting them in this dreadful situation.

 

[edgedweller]

gosh I must have lost the plot. Yes ty, I shall edit my post!

No worries - I really enjoyed your post, it was very concise and thorough, I can't seem to stop waffling in mine!


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[sar2them1984]

Yes, yes. The Video was.
Her 17th birthday was a few months away.
And the fact that she was very much besotted with LO. And they (NM & SH) would of seen the two together I'm sure as he lived almost opposite.
Maybe that was set the wheels in motion.
#justiceforBecky♡

I've always wondered if LO living opposite played any part in this. For me it's just too coincidental.

Iirc LO and Becky got together November when we're the stun guns bought?

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[edgedweller]

My big problem with this is murder/manslaughter being dependant on kidnapping....

RSBM

I am still confused as to WHY they are inextricably linked / what if we simply don't *believe* NM had a kidnap plan? It's absurd. She could still be in on the murder without them having a plan.
Legal?! Would love to hear your views [emoji57]


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[sar2them1984]

Is that one knock for NO and two knocks for YES then ??

You sound like yvette!

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[edgedweller]

I've always wondered if LO living opposite played any part in this. For me it's just too coincidental.

Iirc LO and Becky got together November when were the stun guns bought?

I think it was mid-January.



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[Cherwell]

My big problem with this is murder/manslaughter being dependant on kidnapping. I would have much less of a problem if they’d stuck with false imprisonment. But I'm probably splitting hairs....

I agree, and it is interesting that they escalated the charge to kidnap. There must be a reason for that.

 

[YidArmyRach]

Honestly I think that they chose that day to go over and move or remove some recording device from BW room. They were both in on it and they forgot about half term. When confronted by BW he panicked and tried to keep her quiet. A fight ensued and one thing led to another. At some point I think that SH ran up to see what the commotion was about and found him wrestling with BW and assisted him in 'quieting' her down. From there they went a step too far.

I don't believe that they had any plan to kidnap, molest or kill. They were caught and it just happened. SH ended up super angry with the late BW for putting them in this dreadful situation.

Yes, that's the nearest I can get for a reason for killing her too.

If that is what happened, and they had just said that is what happened, I'm sure they would have been viewed with a lot more understanding - and would be looking at a much shorter sentence.

However, his ridiculous story makes it sound so much worse (talking of punching Becky in the face to knock her out, strangling her to render her unconscious to put into a suitcase, planning to tie her to a tree to scare her ect ect) than a story about a fight getting out of hand does .......... which then makes me wonder if they are covering up something seriously horrendous ...... so I'm almost back to square one with what I think! I mean, why would you cover up an sibling fight which accidently ended up in a death, with a story about kidnapping and assault?

 

[sar2them1984]

I think it was mid-January.



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Yep I couldn't remember if it was Dec or January and I cba to look as I'm on Tapatalk and it's a pain lpl

Idk LO living opposite still sets my hinky meter off

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[Alyce]

I believe she was involved. I don't believe NM's story. Neither do I believe that SH knew or saw nothing. I don't believe any vampire element.

I believe they both disliked Becky intensely. I believe they caused trouble for Becky with her family (SH talking about the will being changed to leave them the house, her police interviews complaining that Becky never got punished ect - she was far too involved in Becky's business).

I don't believe SH was as controlled or scared of NM as she claims (She doesn't leave him alone on her FB account, and the nature of her posts go against everything she says about their relationship and her defence).

I believe they went to Becky's house that day with something in mind, as they didn't need to be there, and they certainly didn't need to stay there after dropping off an very unimportant item. I'm unsure of motive. I think something happened which wasn't planned - certainly not planned to end in her death.

I don't believe the kidnap plan that NM has told. I don't believe he could have done what he claims if his fibro is as bad as he claims (and his defence team have done nothing to claim he is fitter, stronger and healthier than he claims).

I don't believe SH thought he was buying things to clear up the house - when they were buying reams of cling film, bin bags, rubble bags, bleach and rubber gloves. I imagine they must have bought rather large quantities of salt too, which surely would have seemed odd if SH wasn't involved. Particularly as it was said it would be impossible to cook in their kitchen.

I don't believe that she thought he was fixing a toilet by using an electric saw for hours/days at a time, and I don't believe that she didn't need the toilet very much; not even first thing in the morning whilst pregnant.

I think her arranging to see her estranged mother at the exact time the police wanted to search is a sign of her being complicit. No matter how much she might have wanted to reconnect with her mum, I don't believe an innocent person would put that above the importance of the police carrying out checks for a missing girl.

I think there must be more evidence available to the jury that we haven't been privvy too, as I don't believe the prosecution case/evidence can really be as tame as it came across.

All of the above stop me believing she is innocent - however, I don't know if, legally, that is the same as proving she is guilty!

:goodpost:

 

[Tortoise]

Yes, that's the nearest I can get for a reason for killing her too.

If that is what happened, and they had just said that is what happened, I'm sure they would have been viewed with a lot more understanding - and would be looking at a much shorter sentence.

However, his ridiculous story makes it sound so much worse (talking of punching Becky in the face to knock her out, strangling her to render her unconscious to put into a suitcase, planning to tie her to a tree to scare her ect ect) than a story about a fight getting out of hand does .......... which then makes me wonder if they are covering up something seriously horrendous ...... so I'm almost back to square one with what I think!

But there is NO evidence for this being an argument getting out of hand. It is not only the Crown's case that it was a kidnap plan but NM admits it.

People (not you - all who hold the view) see a kidnap plan as ridiculous, but don't you see the pair of them as being the type who would do something ridiculous, judging by their conversations with each other? Ridiculous being an understatement, but I can't think of a better word right now.


ETA - And who in their RIGHT mind would buy stun guns, if they are not planning a kidnap/abduction.

 

[Clio]

I've always wondered if LO living opposite played any part in this. For me it's just too coincidental.

Iirc LO and Becky got together November when we're the stun guns bought?

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16th January

 

[Beesknees]

Beesknees, I just saw this emoticon and thought of you

:bee::bee::bee::bee::bee:

Ohhh so comic the bees, TY CoverMeCagney.

There are here so many 'emotions' to use that I didn't discover these flying bees. Will use them every so often

lol I was taught this 'beesknees' word by a Scottish friend. It was the 'beesknees' and the 'dog's bolloks', but in al honesty I am not certain of their meanings.

No, I will explain. I know what is 'knees' and what is 'bees' of course. lolol I also know what is 'bollocks' and 'dog'. What I don't know is making a word with the knees of the bees lolol or with the bollocks of the dogs lolol :floorlaugh: :floorlaugh:


I found both words very funny and 'beesknees' was chosen as my nickname here because of its funny sound.


:bee: :bee: :bee: :bee: :bee: :bee: :bee: :bee: :bee: :bee: :bee: :bee:

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Ohhh so comic the bees, TY CoverMeCagney.

There are here so many 'emotions' to use that I didn't discover these flying bees. Will use them every so often

lol I was taught this 'beesknees' word by a Scottish friend. It was the 'beesknees' and the 'dog's bolloks', but in al honesty I am not certain of their meanings.

No, I will explain. I know what is 'knees' and what is 'bees' of course. lolol I also know what is 'bollocks' and 'dog'. What I don't know is making a word with the knees of the bees lolol or with the bollocks of the dogs lolol :floorlaugh: :floorlaugh:


I found both words very funny and 'beesknees' was choosen as my nickname here because of its funny sound.


:bee: :bee: :bee: :bee: :bee: :bee: :bee: :bee: :bee: :bee: :bee: :bee:

This post has made my day!! You are the bees knees and the dogs bollocks all rolled into one :loveyou: