GUILTY UK - Rebecca Watts, 16, Bristol, 19 Feb 2015 #15

[Insp.Dots]

I still wonder why the jury went for manslaughter for SH. Still, it was unanimous.

As long as she gets life I won't be overly bothered.

Perhaps they felt they couldn't get her on Murder with the evidence? So glad they used their 'common sense' as a whole. IMO Jury have done a fantastic job and if any of them ever read this 'Well Done'.....must have been an incredibly hard trial to sit through and not one they will ever forget!

 

[skibaboo]

View attachment 84153

Can we have another? Big ol snotty mess here.. I'm so annoyed I missed it as it happened, missed the presser, misses the statements. But man, am I happy with the outcome. I don't think the sentences will disappoint now. You did it, y'all did it. Becky has justice! Her family has justice! My thoughts right now are with them, I'm a stranger and I'm all over the damn place!! Heartbroken for them.

You can rest easy now Becky :rose:

 

[sar2them1984]

no way. he only did it after they'd found his finger prints in Becky's blood.

he forced a trial, neither of them have shown remorse or regret, throw away the keys.

I'm not disputing that..he needs to rot in prison but I have seen cases where they've had a small decrease in sentencing for doing things like that albeit it should be cancelled out for making family sit through a trial

Sent from my SM-N910F using Tapatalk

 

[Insp.Dots]

We were told about 236 images and 21 videos relating to teens? Gosh, I don't remember that. I thought they mentioned only the one video about kidnapping and raping a teen. I guess I missed that. If I'd been aware of this info, it would have been even more clear in my mind what they were up to.

I didn't want to say this last night, but I dug into the title of the film a little and found, it was also about a Brother raping his Sister!! No wonder they didn't say much in Public. God only knows what else those poor people have had to sit through!

 

[Legal]

It is hard to conceive but then so is all the other stuff that happened in this case. I have never been in any doubt that SH was a liar, lied about everything, and was involved from the start.

Legal, will the reporting restrictions in place during the trial be lifted now do you know?

I don't know but just did a quick check and it's quite complicated (of course!). It seems reporting restrictions on minors who are victims and witnesses remain until they are 18. Victims of sexual assault are allowed lifelong anonymity. Adult witnesses who are afraid to give evidence may be granted lifelong anonymity. Indecent material calculated to injure public morals is not allowed to be published. Pre-trial deliberations and jury deliberations are not allowed to be published. Most of it is discretionary and I guess it also depends if they try to get permission to appeal.

Normally people sell their stories to the tabloids and we find out a lot that way or so it seems!

 

[Insp.Dots]

NM has the sexual assault and voyeurism charges still to come too, maybe next year?

I hope they add Benefit Fraud to the list as well. UNLESS BOTH get a 'Whole Life Sentence' (Which is unlikely i'd think in SH's case at least) they should also have charges of falsely obtaining benefits and housing thrown at them. I'm also wondering if there will be a 'serious case review' by Social Services as at the time SH had regular contact with her Social worker. We mustn't forget there was an innocent 2 year old caught up in all this horror. Not to mention the Unborn Twins. SOoooo many affected it really is horrific to think this happened in a city full of people!

 

[skibaboo]

Tom Parmenter Verified account  ‏@TomSkyNews · 33s34 seconds ago
Shauna Hoare wipes away tears as she sits in the dock taking in the verdicts in this case - she is guilty of manslaughter

Clio, thank you for being on the ball throughout the trial. And others too, too many to mention.

:yourock:

And in response to this tweet.. Awww, boo *advertiser censored***** hoo!! :jail:

 

[Insp.Dots]

That is a conundrum certainly.

I, as I'm sure many here, know people who have had the most abysmal upbringing including mental, physical and sexual abuse. Yet they have overcome the difficulties because of an innate sense of determination, of wanting to escape the past and have a 'normal' family life in adulthood.

One's early life and upbringing always leaves scars that never heal, so why is it that sometimes things like this happen?
Vincent Tabak had a normal, middle class upbringing, intelligent guy, good job - look what happened there.

Is it nurture or nature ?? Big question.
It shows a magnanimous spirit to feel that the evil actions of people are a product of their unloved childhood. They would have become decent contributing members of society if only ......

I tend to the belief that it is nature, not nurture, that is to blame but I really have no answer, nor understanding.

Good Points, No Doubt upbringing will always have an affect. BUT I do believe people make a choice.....they either live with the belief 'this is my life', nothing I can do OR 'this is my life'....there is NO-WAY I am going to let bad things define me, I will fight to be a better person & parent (or not be a parent). There is definitely a pattern but it's not necessarily a 'symmetrical' one if that makes sense!

 

[Legal]

Just been checking the CPS sentencing guidelines. What happens is there is a starting point and then aggravating and mitigating factors are applied. For murder, one of the factors for a whole life tariff is "murder of a child involving abduction, sexual or sadistic motivation". The starting point of minimum 30 years includes involving sexual or sadistic conduct". Minimum 25 years - bringing a weapon to commit any offence, or use it for the murder. Otherwise starting point 15 years.

Aggravating factors - planning/ premeditation; vulnerable victim due to age or disability; mental or physical suffering inflicted on victim before death; concealment, destruction or dismemberment of body.

Mitigating factors - only intention to cause GBH; lack of premeditation; offender suffering from mental disorder

Not saying all/ any apply to NM, just these seem to be the ones that are relevant.

 

[jessie]

Sorry to refer to the Tabak case again, but there are similarities.
It took at least 3 years for the other (downloading *advertiser censored* etc) charges to be brought against him. Then he was given 10 years concurrent, so makes no difference to his life sentence.

Perhaps if they get really, reeeealllly long sentences there is no rush to bring the other charges ?

 

[Ironside]

Now that the verdicts are in and there is some form of justice for Becky, I am beginning to feel sorry for the children than MN and SH were. I'm not excusing them for what they did, or saying I feel sorry for them now, because I don't. There is no excuse and nobody else to blame. I mean, if we had heard about them when they were little children and knew the situation they were in, I think we would all be very sad for them.

What 7 year old boy being given to his grandmother to look after, then seeing his own mother take on someone else's children (who call her 'mum') isn't going to have some kind of issues.

And what young girl, shifted from foster home to foster home, isn't going to be affected by her mother having more children who stay with her? What 14 girl isn't going to have some issues when her own mother, rather than guide and protects her, encourages a sexual relationship with a full grown man. Encourages an illegal sexual relationship?

I think there will be - and should be - a lot of soul searching.

Totally agree with this. If we don't question what on earth made these people act this way it will be repeated again and again. I truly hope NM and SH get the harshest sentences possible but I also have some sympathy for them, nobody would choose the lives they have had.

 

[Insp.Dots]

Love is a warm feeling, it is all embracing. Yes it is unconditional, but I think in a situation where the person you love commits such a heinous calculated act of pure evil, then I don't think love can embrace or overcome that. I think there will be grieving for losing him as a son, for surely she will have to disconnect in some way. Not from the little boy she knew and loved, but from the monster and stranger he became.

Maybe, she will find it possible to accept if he is given a psychiatric diagnosis, but if he isn't, I think if it were my son, I would have to end up treating it as a loss, and a tragedy that no-one, myself included, had spotted his deterioration earlier.

Bless her, poor woman also has a very serious illness to deal with. I do feel for her. I think IF it were me and my Son, I would maybe feel the need to visit him. To look him in the eye and ask why. I do think that in NM's interview he was literally 'falling apart' and finally realizing what HE had done. That is not to say I have ANY sympathy but there may well be a Mental Illness. That said, even more reason to keep him locked up for life! Am now wondering if either of them will try and give any mitigating factors pre-sentencing. I doubt either will 'Own-up' or apologize in anyway. SH will probably continue to shout she's a victim for the rest of her days! MOO

 

[skibaboo]

Sorry if already posted (videos of statements at link)

'She was beautiful, happy, feisty, caring, witty': Full statement from Becky Watts' family

Becky Watts' family sobbed in court as the guilty verdicts were read out. Afterwards a complex and emotional statement was read out on their behalf, expressing their grief, gratitude, anger - and most of all, the depth of their love for Becky

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Can we have another? Big ol snotty mess here.. I'm so annoyed I missed it as it happened, missed the presser, misses the statements. But man, am I happy with the outcome. I don't think the sentences will disappoint now. You did it, y'all did it. Becky has justice! Her family has justice! My thoughts right now are with them, I'm a stranger and I'm all over the damn place!! Heartbroken for them.

You can rest easy now Becky :rose:

Skibs, I couldn't believe you weren't here when it happened, sods law!! I'm still so shocked, and pleased, and sad, and angry.

Has Beesknees been back since the verdict? (not read all the comments yet).

 

[mrazda71]

Well you go out on the school run with a quick Mum and son Costa thrown in (left my phone at home for the first time in years!) and come home to THE news!!

Wow! I'm shocked ... not at the verdicts as such but at the speed that they came back.

I'm hoping that we'll now hear some of the information that made that verdict so quick for the jury to come to.

I dont think the verdicts are anything to celebrate though ... there is just nothing but sadness all round.

For Becky and her loved ones, of course but also for Nathan and Shauna's daughter, the unborn twins and the children that Nathan and Shauna were ...

 

[Gigi-G]

That is a conundrum certainly.

I, as I'm sure many here, know people who have had the most abysmal upbringing including mental, physical and sexual abuse. Yet they have overcome the difficulties because of an innate sense of determination, of wanting to escape the past and have a 'normal' family life in adulthood.

One's early life and upbringing always leaves scars that never heal, so why is it that sometimes things like this happen?
Vincent Tabak had a normal, middle class upbringing, intelligent guy, good job - look what happened there.

Is it nurture or nature ?? Big question.
It shows a magnanimous spirit to feel that the evil actions of people are a product of their unloved childhood. They would have become decent contributing members of society if only ......

I tend to the belief that it is nature, not nurture, that is to blame but I really have no answer, nor understanding.

I think it's a coping mechanism. Passing the blame. It's like we are not born fearful.. as toddlers. Who's said to their friends.. that their toddler is fearless?
Some 'thing' happened. However big or small. And it then gets carried on and the fear progresses until it's almost/can be debilitating.
We don't know what event/s ignited NM'S mindset. We may never know. Unless he sells his story. Or his family do.
SH I feel the same too. And these 2 likened souls. Met and became one. Their depravity became their world. Their home is statement to this. .... In childhood they 'had to let go' whether that was letting go of a parent. Or some kind of Stability was taken from them. Either way. It cost them both dearly. By loosing their liberty.
But I really do think. If it hadn't been Becky... It would of been 'other's'
So I think tonight mother's of daughters will give their 'stroppy teen' a huge hug... and say I love you. ....
#inmemoryofBeckyWatts ♡

 

[Gigi-G]

I'm going to miss you guys on here. We've All come so far in this case. What on earth am I going to do with my day now?
:boohoo: :sad:

 

[LookingForClues]

I don't think this has been posted yet:

Becky Watts' heartbroken father says killers should pay for barbaric murder with their lives

http://www.bristolpost.co.uk/Becky-Watt-s-heartbroken-father-says-killers-pay/story-28157462-detail/story.html

BECKY Watts' heart-broken dad Darren Galsworthy said Nathan Matthews and Shauna Hoare should pay with their own lives for the barbaric and horrific murder of the teenager.

Darren Galsworthy told the BBC: "There's only one way to pay for this sort of crime - and that's by losing their own lives."

Mr. Galsworthy said he and his wife Anjie - Matthews' mother - had been through "hell on earth."

More at link

 

[edgedweller]

Well, what a day! I went into work thinking it would be a quiet few days while the jury deliberated, and came out to a verdict! Four verdicts, actually. I'm surprised that JI was found not guilty - although I actually believed he DID believe that he was moving NM's clothes and belongings. I thought the £5k coincidence might have persuaded the jury that he was getting paid to move it and therefore must've known it was dodgy in some way. Still, the mate-in-pub conversation is hearsay, I would think. Very glad that he and DD are found innocent.

I wasn't surprised by NM's verdict but though the SH one could go either way. Personally I think the circumstantial evidence was just too strong and overpowered her denials.

Poor DG and AG - the interview with them is heartbreaking. (oh, and beesknees - can you understand the accents?!). Their lives are just destroyed. I really hope this doesn't affect AG's health *too* much, but I presume that stress can make any chronic illness much worse. Ironic how NM claimed that he wanted to help his mum out, and he's probably done more than anyone to give her stress and heartache, sleepless nights and worry.

 

[Insp.Dots]

I'm going to miss you guys on here. We've All come so far in this case. What on earth am I going to do with my day now?
:boohoo: :sad:

It has been a great group debate.. Sadly (due to the nature of this forum) Gigi-G there will be another case to debate very soon, and many on-going. I have noticed us Brits tend to follow similar trials, not just in the UK but around the world. Stick around, it's been a pleasure to post with you! :loveyou: