GUILTY UK - Rebecca Watts, 16, Bristol, 19 Feb 2015 #4

[LookingForClues]

I think Becky looks amused in that photo. As if she's about to laugh. But if people are wanting to find hints that she was scared of NM, or disliked him, a family member has posted on Bristol Post FB:

"can I just say one thing quietly and gently...you are right we must wait for the truth to come out BUT.......Becky knew and loved Nathan, I'm sure she would have said he and shauna were nice people, as would others who knew them.....and look how that is...just saying.. x x x"

I did not say anything about scared or disliked. I think "awkward," as mrazda's said. Being a teen can be awkward, especially if you are also shy. I am not implying anything beyond that.

 

[Wallace]

Sorry- I have jumped through a few pages here now and haven't time to catch up on anything properly so forgive me on that.

I am applying couch logic here and welcome all or any critique as I will not take offence in any way, shape or form.

I do not think this was a planned murder. Also most murders would have some kind of criminal history or background I would presume. Based on interviews in media, many have expressed surprise at who was involved- said they were a nice couple who pretty much kept to themselves. Haven't come across anyone saying 'yera not surprised he was involved'. So what would the motive be? There could be some sordid sex ring for all we know. And BW's character could imply that she is a victim of abuse- but as they all say she was a very careful girl- it could also imply she was just a shy young lady and nothing more.

Now NW and SH were hanging around with DG and AG and look like they were happy enough in pictures. AG is very ill and surely her own son would care about his mother and understand that this would turn her life up side down. If he had the desire to kill someone randomly for whatever reason, I don't see him choosing BW as a likely target.

So I was thinking how could this happen- what theory would make sense or be in fact plausible- taking into account her devices have not been discussed and probably shed a lot more light on the entire thing. So I can see that SH is posting about people not paying back money in a general way. She (we believe) was not working. Comments say she never really left the house etc. We know NW was doing deliveries- I would presume they would not be earning a lot. But the thing is you don't lend someone money unless you have money to lend them in the first place. I very much wonder do drugs play a part in all this. Could NW have been dealing? I mean as a delivery driver he is out and about a good bit- and it is a way to make a bit of extra money so plausible that this is something he may have been involved in.

Now I theorise that one of the things that may have happened is that there was an argument between him and BW or SH and BW while he was there and it got heated and out of control and he hit her and killed her and then panicked. He works out, he could take steroids for all we know- he could have been high at the time. I have zero proof of this but I can see how it could happen. And then because he is a father and looks devoted in pictures with the child- maybe he can not call an ambulance or call the police and admit to manslaughter as he may have a stash in the house, may have been high- right there you have someone take away your child end of. So he panics and goes from there.

The connection to the other 4 is strange. Either he duped them or drugs are involved as well- maybe he asked if he could hide his stash at theirs as his sister is being looked for and his house will be searched? Maybe they did not know or presume there was something more sinister. Or maybe they are his contacts- KD's house is spotless- looks well kept, the child is clean and well dressed- it seems they were not short of money- that being said they do not look like typical drug users either.

Of course, and I contradict my theory again now- if they KNEW what they were trying to conceal- if they played a part in dismembering that poor girls body and were in on the plan to dispose of her- there has to be a deeper involvement and investment. You do not take that risk for nothing or even based on a friendship. MAYBE if the victim had done something unspeakable- like hurting a child or something- then you could maybe understand them assisting NW- but a shy 16 year old girl? And if they have a deeper investment and motivation to help- that means there may be more awful details to come to light.

Of course if the devices are found and with the police right now- it could show premeditation as someone may have contacted her to lure her somewhere for whatever reason. I do note that SH tended to share stuff to throw people off like the white van reference or the 'disappear' text that BW allegedly sent.

Very many theories with very little information. But fair play to the police on this one. Wallace- I would be interested to hear your opinion on where I am going with this all.

Like I said a few pages behind now so if this has already come up- apologies...

Something went wrong, whether that thing involved the other four is hard to say. They had an incentive to help. To me it would need to be a very big incentive. But they may just be as dumb as rocks and blindly loyal to each other.

 

[Beesknees]

I think Becky looks amused in that photo. As if she's about to laugh. But if people are wanting to find hints that she was scared of NM, or disliked him, a family member has posted on Bristol Post FB:

"can I just say one thing quietly and gently...you are right we must wait for the truth to come out BUT.......Becky knew and loved Nathan, I'm sure she would have said he and Shauna were nice people, as would others who knew them.....and look how that is ... just saying.. x x x"

To put that in context, she is responding to people who are saying good things about the other four people charged.

This is all so sad. All lose so muchand brought nothing but misery and sorrow. Mainly for REBECCA WATTS who lost her brief life which was still blossoming :notgood:

 

[Wallace]

Sorry- I have jumped through a few pages here now and haven't time to catch up on anything properly so forgive me on that.

I am applying couch logic here and welcome all or any critique as I will not take offence in any way, shape or form.

I do not think this was a planned murder. Also most murders would have some kind of criminal history or background I would presume. Based on interviews in media, many have expressed surprise at who was involved- said they were a nice couple who pretty much kept to themselves. Haven't come across anyone saying 'yera not surprised he was involved'. So what would the motive be? There could be some sordid sex ring for all we know. And BW's character could imply that she is a victim of abuse- but as they all say she was a very careful girl- it could also imply she was just a shy young lady and nothing more.

Now NW and SH were hanging around with DG and AG and look like they were happy enough in pictures. AG is very ill and surely her own son would care about his mother and understand that this would turn her life up side down. If he had the desire to kill someone randomly for whatever reason, I don't see him choosing BW as a likely target.

So I was thinking how could this happen- what theory would make sense or be in fact plausible- taking into account her devices have not been discussed and probably shed a lot more light on the entire thing. So I can see that SH is posting about people not paying back money in a general way. She (we believe) was not working. Comments say she never really left the house etc. We know NW was doing deliveries- I would presume they would not be earning a lot. But the thing is you don't lend someone money unless you have money to lend them in the first place. I very much wonder do drugs play a part in all this. Could NW have been dealing? I mean as a delivery driver he is out and about a good bit- and it is a way to make a bit of extra money so plausible that this is something he may have been involved in.

Now I theorise that one of the things that may have happened is that there was an argument between him and BW or SH and BW while he was there and it got heated and out of control and he hit her and killed her and then panicked. He works out, he could take steroids for all we know- he could have been high at the time. I have zero proof of this but I can see how it could happen. And then because he is a father and looks devoted in pictures with the child- maybe he can not call an ambulance or call the police and admit to manslaughter as he may have a stash in the house, may have been high- right there you have someone take away your child end of. So he panics and goes from there.

The connection to the other 4 is strange. Either he duped them or drugs are involved as well- maybe he asked if he could hide his stash at theirs as his sister is being looked for and his house will be searched? Maybe they did not know or presume there was something more sinister. Or maybe they are his contacts- KD's house is spotless- looks well kept, the child is clean and well dressed- it seems they were not short of money- that being said they do not look like typical drug users either.

Of course, and I contradict my theory again now- if they KNEW what they were trying to conceal- if they played a part in dismembering that poor girls body and were in on the plan to dispose of her- there has to be a deeper involvement and investment. You do not take that risk for nothing or even based on a friendship. MAYBE if the victim had done something unspeakable- like hurting a child or something- then you could maybe understand them assisting NW- but a shy 16 year old girl? And if they have a deeper investment and motivation to help- that means there may be more awful details to come to light.

Of course if the devices are found and with the police right now- it could show premeditation as someone may have contacted her to lure her somewhere for whatever reason. I do note that SH tended to share stuff to throw people off like the white van reference or the 'disappear' text that BW allegedly sent.

Very many theories with very little information. But fair play to the police on this one. Wallace- I would be interested to hear your opinion on where I am going with this all.

Like I said a few pages behind now so if this has already come up- apologies...

That would be some stash. 30-40 kilos worth.

 

[Clio]

Searches in Barton Hill in connection with the Becky Watts investigation could continue into next week
[.....]
Forensic teams have now finished their work at Becky's Crown Hill home and at another property in Wilton Close, Southmead
[...]
A spokesman for Avon and Somerset police said the police cordon was expected to be in place for "sometime" as the search for "evidence in connection with the enquiry" continued

http://www.bristolpost.co.uk/Becky-...ill-expected/story-26134361-detail/story.html

 

[Cherwell]

I did not say anything about scared or disliked. I think "awkward," as mrazda's said. Being a teen can be awkward, especially if you are also shy. I am not implying anything beyond that.

My post wasn't directed to you. There have been suggestions that she was abused by him, although there doesn't appear to be any foundation for this. People will see what they want to see.

 

[skibaboo]

http://www.bristolpost.co.uk/Becky-...ill-expected/story-26134361-detail/story.html

"They all face one charge each, which read: "Between February 22 and March 3 in the city of Bristol, without lawful authority or reasonable excuse, did an act, namely assist in the disposal and concealment of the body parts of Rebecca Watts, with the intent to impede the apprehension or prosecution of Nathan Matthews who had committed the offence of murder, knowing or believing him to be guilty of the offence, or for another offence which carries a term of imprisonment of five years or more."

Speculating - I think maybe they aren't talking OR possibly have said he asked them to help conceal/dispose of drugs/stolen property. In light that his step sister was missing and homes were being searched, he had stuff he didn't want the police to find.

 

[mrazda71]

"They all face one charge each, which read: "Between February 22 and March 3 in the city of Bristol, without lawful authority or reasonable excuse, did an act, namely assist in the disposal and concealment of the body parts of Rebecca Watts, with the intent to impede the apprehension or prosecution of Nathan Matthews who had committed the offence of murder, knowing or believing him to be guilty of the offence, or for another offence which carries a term of imprisonment of five years or more."

Speculating - I think maybe they aren't talking OR possibly have said he asked them to help conceal/dispose of drugs/stolen property. In light that his step sister was missing and homes were being searched, he had stuff he didn't want the police to find.

But doesn't the charge clearly say that they knowingly helped to dispose of mp conceal Rebecca's body?

 

[Cherwell]

"They all face one charge each, which read: "Between February 22 and March 3 in the city of Bristol, without lawful authority or reasonable excuse, did an act, namely assist in the disposal and concealment of the body parts of Rebecca Watts, with the intent to impede the apprehension or prosecution of Nathan Matthews who had committed the offence of murder, knowing or believing him to be guilty of the offence, or for another offence which carries a term of imprisonment of five years or more."

Speculating - I think maybe they aren't talking OR possibly have said he asked them to help conceal/dispose of drugs/stolen property. In light that his step sister was missing and homes were being searched, he had stuff he didn't want the police to find.

Yes, that strongly suggests that he told them it was something else. Probably stolen goods, which may have included drugs.
As Wallace said, that would be one heck of a stash if it was all drugs!

But doesn't the charge clearly say that they knowingly helped to dispose of mp conceal Rebecca's body?

Not quite. It says "knowing or believing him to be guilty of the offence, or for another offence which carries a term of imprisonment of five years or more".

 

[skibaboo]

But doesn't the charge clearly say that they knowingly helped to dispose of mp conceal Rebecca's body?

"They all face one charge each, which read: "Between February 22 and March 3 in the city of Bristol, without lawful authority or reasonable excuse, did an act, namely assist in the disposal and concealment of the body parts of Rebecca Watts, with the intent to impede the apprehension or prosecution of Nathan Matthews who had committed the offence of murder, knowing or believing him to be guilty of the offence, or for another offence which carries a term of imprisonment of five years or more."

Not sure, I've read it until I'm blue in the face. But it's the BBM that has me wondering. Knowing or believing him to be guilty of the offence OR of another offence

They may not have (well apart from JP who has, vehemently IIRC) denied they concealed/disposed, but what they concealed/disposed they may have said they were lied to. Again I'm just speculating as I find it hard to comprehend someone could willingly do what was done That and legal wording gives me a headache

 

[NSS]

The charge is that they concealed body parts ------they are likely claiming they believed it to be other contraband -----so they have tagged on the OR For ANOTHER OFFENCE ---- The prosecution will attempt to prove they knew it was body parts, if the jury feels it wasn't proven, instead of not guilty and walking free, they will be guilty of the 'Other Offence' part which will be their defence to part A.

It secures a conviction that is all.


ETA - They are guilty of hiding something, this just covers a guilty verdict of either offence. Justice must be seen to be done. Lots of people go to jail for concealing weapons/drugs/other stuff and it would be a shame if these 4 weren't charged with at least that.

 

[ChuckieD]

I think Becky looks amused in that photo. As if she's about to laugh. But if people are wanting to find hints that she was scared of NM, or disliked him, a family member has posted on Bristol Post FB:

"can I just say one thing quietly and gently...you are right we must wait for the truth to come out BUT.......Becky knew and loved Nathan, I'm sure she would have said he and Shauna were nice people, as would others who knew them.....and look how that is ... just saying.. x x x"

To put that in context, she is responding to people who are saying good things about the other four people charged.

Exactly what I see in the picture, she looks fine! Same as all the other photos I've seen.

 

[Clio]

The charge alleges that they "did an act, namely assist in the disposal and concealment of the body parts of Rebecca Watts with intent to impede the apprehension or prosecution of Nathan Matthews, who had committed the offence of murder".

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/becky-watts-four-appear-court-5287066

They all face a single charge of disposing or concealing Becky's body parts with the intent "to impede the apprehension or prosecution of Nathan Matthews".

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-31765767

The charge alleges that they 'did an act, namely assist in the disposal and concealment of the body parts of Rebecca Watts with intent to impede the apprehension or prosecution of Nathan Watts, who had committed the offence of murder'

.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...stepbrother-accused-murder.html#ixzz3TiJM8P00

 

[sar2them1984]

Exactly what I see in the picture, she looks fine! Same as all the other photos I've seen.

I must admit it's interesting to see how different people interpret the same thing as I think she looks fine in all the photos I've seen too. She certainly doesn't look scares of him..in my opinion

 

[Alyce]

I don't think she's grinning either...nor is she "smiling" as also said in this article. I'm not sure what to make of her expression, but neither of those words popped into my head.

My initial take was a slightly almost hesitant look - like she isnt sure whether to laugh or not, or sort of stopping herself from giggling at a point when the bride might just be about to arrive, and trying to be a bit serious at this point in the proceedings

 

[Alyce]

Something went wrong, whether that thing involved the other four is hard to say. They had an incentive to help. To me it would need to be a very big incentive. But they may just be as dumb as rocks and blindly loyal to each other.

Yes ........ either a heavy obligation to NM or a need to cover up something that would affect them, in a direct or indirect way

 

[leah]

Nobody saw Rebecca leave the house that morning, but did any camera or neighbor see her come home around 8 that morning? I know what her step mom has said, and I'm not saying I don't believe her, but wondered if surveillance cameras picked her up coming home?

 

[Clio]

Nobody saw Rebecca leave the house that morning, but did any camera or neighbor see her come home around 8 that morning? I know what her step mom has said, and I'm not saying I don't believe her, but wondered if surveillance cameras picked her up coming home?

She may or may not have been caught on camera/seen by neighbours but the police seem to have no doubt that she was actually home that morning so it would not be relevant information to release to the public.

 

[Beesknees]

Nobody saw Rebecca leave the house that morning, but did any camera or neighbor see her come home around 8 that morning? I know what her step mom has said, and I'm not saying I don't believe her, but wondered if surveillance cameras picked her up coming home?

I don't think the issue of B having been picked in any CCTV was ever showed. And I too think there are no cameras around her house.

Edited to say I have many doubts about the arrival of BW at home that morning...

 

[leah]

I don't think the issue of B having been picked in any CCTV was ever showed. And I too think there are no cameras around her house.

It was a question I had been thinking about, and wondered if this has been addressed. For some reason I thought CCTV was around the neighborhoods.