GUILTY UK - Rebecca Watts, 16, Bristol, 19 Feb 2015 #5

[Lola68]

I'mnot suggesting they wanted the child around but surely they would have had access to someone who would look after the child if this was a planned kidnap as NM has claimed? For me his excuses still sound odd, it really doesn't add up, it seems so much more opportunistic than planned , particularly the lack of planning and running around shopping after the fact. The mask thing just sounds odd.

That really stood out for me too - why say something is planned when it sounds completely opportunistic?? Much easier to say it was heat of the moment and something went wrong - and then they panicked. Stupid people generally get caught.

 

[epiphany]

Also, "handcuffs" were found with other evidence in the shed. Murder not planned for that particular day, but appears kidnapping was:

The jury was given a graphic description of the moment when police went to the shed in Barton Hill and found several suitcases, a bin bag and a blue plastic box containing body parts wrapped in plastic.

Other items found included handcuffs, a knife, scissors, some clothing and layers of cling film.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-bristol-34464909

 

[bos]

They knew AG had a hospital appointment & who was taking her there as their reason for calling round was for SH to return a cake tin she'd borrowed from AG's mum
http://www.westerndailypress.co.uk/...reveal-Becky/story-27967420-detail/story.html

 

[Retribution]

^^ RBBM

So 2 doors in Becky's home. Door from kitchen leads to garden and then there's the front door:

From SH's interview--

She said: 'I think we got there about 11-ish. I heard music from upstairs. I went into the kitchen to get a cigarette and went through to the garden.

'Probably within 15 or 20 minutes I came back into the kitchen to get a drink and wash my hands and I heard the front door slam.'

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ing-Becky-Watts-laughed-police-interview.html


Where's the stairway...not that close to the kitchen? IF so, easy to have plan to kidnap Becky from home, transport down the stairs and into vehicle while child watching TV or while child with SH in garden. Somewhat risky with child in other room, but risky is often part of the Thrill.

The front door opens to the hall and there are 2 doors, the first leading to the lounge, at the front, the second leading to the kitchen, at the back. The stairs are almost directly in front of the front door, so are closest to the lounge, but not far away from the kitchen.

 

[epiphany]

Handcuffs were brought to the home (suggesting planned kidnapping). No other reason to get rid of them (attempted to use them), but the 2 stun guns remained in his home.

As others have suggested, he/they did not use the stun guns for w/e reason. So, when Becky begins fighting back & screaming, eventually a hand goes over her mouth/nose area and she is suffocated:

Various injuries "were consistent with a hand being held over the mouth, causing suffocation" and also suggested "a violent struggle".

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-bristol-34464909

 

[Lola68]

All depends on the layout of the house I guess...also is the child used to being left alone in front of TV? Much more likely to stay put and not make a fuss if so...

A lot seems to have been made about the child being in the garden with SH almost as if the child was taken out of the way.

Seems to me that if that's the case then in a weird kind of way they're trying to protect the child I. E taking it away from what's about to happen, acting normal afterwards..I'm guessing the dismemberment took place at night when child asleep. Also NMs willingness to take the whole blame is almost an attempt to keep the child with its mom..not sure how well I'm putting this across..

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The street is mostly 1950s housing so stairs likely to be near/opposite the front door with kitchen/garden access to the rear

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place...!4b1!4m2!3m1!1s0x0:0x6b6a9aca41856f47!6m1!1e1

 

[sar2them1984]

So there is no corridor as implied in SHs video interview?

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[Lola68]

She knew for certain what had happened by the time AG got home imo .. certainly by the afternoon when LO visited

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When did LO visit? I thought it was the following day given Shauna's longwinded conversation about looking it up on the internet then realising it was less than 24hrs if a minor... Thanks

 

[Bluey]

They knew AG had a hospital appointment & who was taking her there as their reason for calling round was for SH to return a cake tin she'd borrowed from AG's mum
http://www.westerndailypress.co.uk/...reveal-Becky/story-27967420-detail/story.html

Ah thank you, I was hoping we would hear whether or not they knew about the appointment and about Becky being at home on her own.


If this had been a plan of NM's to kidnap Becky and SH wasn't involved at all, I wonder why SH was there. From NM's point of view wouldn't it have made much more sense to say he could take the cake tin and leave SH at home with the child.

Quite a risk of SH catching him in the act if she is there with him.

Unless the kidnap plan was hatched between the two of them and SH had a role, or wanted in particular to be there.

 

[Cherwell]

So there is no corridor as implied in SHs video interview?

It's a hallway.

The front door opens to the hall and there are 2 doors, the first leading to the lounge, at the front, the second leading to the kitchen, at the back. The stairs are almost directly in front of the front door, so are closest to the lounge, but not far away from the kitchen.

 

[eneri12]

I do think there was a fantasy discussed involving kidnapping RW, they both had a shared sexual interest in young females that much we know from court. The intent was there definitely but possibly NM decided to seize the opportunity when it presented?

 

[Lola68]

I know this has been posted already, but seriously?? BBM

"He [Matthews] said he had strangled the teenager after trying to kidnap her."

Mr Matthews denies charges of murder and conspiracy to kidnap.

Miss Hoare denies murder, conspiracy to kidnap, perverting the course of justice, preventing a lawful burial and possessing a prohibited weapon, namely two stun guns.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-34464909

 

[Bluey]

I know this has been posted already, but seriously?? BBM

"He [Matthews] said he had strangled the teenager after trying to kidnap her."

Mr Matthews denies charges of murder and conspiracy to kidnap.

Miss Hoare denies murder, conspiracy to kidnap, perverting the course of justice, preventing a lawful burial and possessing a prohibited weapon, namely two stun guns.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-34464909

So is it conspiring with SH he is denying?

 

[Damond]

Hmm. Very good point.

This joins nicely with something I thought about earlier... We are reading reports of what the jury are hearing, a tape of what NM/SH said during initial post-arrest interviews. There's nothing as yet to say that either will stick to those early statements, whether they intend to deviate or not, or whether the changes they might make are helpful to them.

 

[Damond]

This is just a recording of what he said after his arrest. I'm expecting a refined timeline and story from him, and hoping to infer his intent from that. I can't imagine he's sticking by his original statement, and trying a manslaughter plea. His barrister wouldn't have any of it.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

And their stories matching just a bit too closely can often be problematic and backfire (for ex., she was coached):

Police also interviewed Matthews at that time, but his account of events matched Hoare.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ing-Becky-Watts-laughed-police-interview.html

I agree, their accounts match too closely. Imo, NM and SH are consummate liars, with years of experience at deceiving family and friends. SH being with NM since 15 yrs old, these kind of twisted relationships, I always imagine is like a cult.

As SH has visited the home numerous times, it's easy to recapture a scene in your mind that you've put into practice so often, maybe even within days before the fatal day.

I'm in two minds at present like most here, either SH, with child, remained out of sight and hearing until Becky would be subdued and placed in car (SH knowing full well the plan though).

or, SH gave her child a treat, sat her in front of t.v./put her down for nap on sofa, then she went upstairs and chatted with Becky while NM crept up behind and grabbed her. He is quite short, doesn't have the reach a bigger man would have so it was difficult, I'm assuming. Anything like this scenario is near impossible to prove unless NM changes his mind and gives another version of events.

Becky fought for her life, she KNEW this was serious and his threats to kill her were now being played out. He could have released her at anytime and said it was a joke, a cruel one at that but no.

Also, I'm not buying it was accidental, NM's plan was to kill Becky at one stage after abusing her.

NM allegedly stabbed Becky 15 times after death, the rage must have been electrifying. Stabbing can be a substitute for rape also. Was SH present? Did she participate?

It will be interesting when it's revealed how much physical evidence (fingerprints, DNA contamination) on tools, Becky's body and injuries etc. forensics has picked up on by SH.

JMO

 

[PrimeSuspect]

Ah thank you, I was hoping we would hear whether or not they knew about the appointment and about Becky being at home on her own.


If this had been a plan of NM's to kidnap Becky and SH wasn't involved at all, I wonder why SH was there. From NM's point of view wouldn't it have made much more sense to say he could take the cake tin and leave SH at home with the child.

Quite a risk of SH catching him in the act if she is there with him.

Unless the kidnap plan was hatched between the two of them and SH had a role, or wanted in particular to be there.

Thank you, I don't think anyone has mentioned this, why was SH there? Was Becky more at ease if SH was present? She'd smell a rat if NM was alone and probably would have bolted? Hmmmm

 

[Clio]

So is it conspiring with SH he is denying?

I believe so.

Count One: Conspiracy to kidnap

"You have to decide whether there was a plan or agreement to kidnap Becky Watts ...

"Nathan Matthews and Shauna Hoare have both pleaded not guilty. He says that (the kidnap) was what he intended to do, but he is not guilty of a joint plan because Hoare was nothing to do with it. She says she was nothing to do with what went on.

"You need to ask, was there an agreement to try and kidnap Becky Watts?"

Read more: http://www.bristolpost.co.uk/Becky-...tory-27946813-detail/story.html#ixzz3oQ8hG5lz

 

[Clio]

When did LO visit? I thought it was the following day given Shauna's longwinded conversation about looking it up on the internet then realising it was less than 24hrs if a minor... Thanks

At about 5pm on the day she died

Earlier that day, he had visited hospital for a dental appointment but missed the bus and arrived three minutes late at 10.43am, the jury heard.

He left the hospital at 12.10pm and sent Becky a text message but it didn't deliver, before going to the barbers – leaving around 3pm.

At around 5pm, he had become concerned about Becky's lack of communication and went to her home.

Read more: http://www.bathchronicle.co.uk/Beck...tory-27947812-detail/story.html#ixzz3oQB9AMgE

 

[sar2them1984]

Handcuffs were brought to the home (suggesting planned kidnapping). No other reason to get rid of them (attempted to use them), but the 2 stun guns remained in his home.

As others have suggested, he/they did not use the stun guns for w/e reason. So, when Becky begins fighting back & screaming, eventually a hand goes over her mouth/nose area and she is suffocated:

Various injuries "were consistent with a hand being held over the mouth, causing suffocation" and also suggested "a violent struggle".

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-bristol-34464909

I wonder why they didn't use the stun guns - they obviously intended to as they bought batteries for them on the way...

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