Found Deceased UK - Richard Okorogheye, 19, Oxford Student, Ladbroke Grove, West London, 24 March 2021 #2

[Beans]

There’s a baying mob on Twitter blaming the police for fobbing off his mother & not locating him sooner. Is there any truth in this?

Could he have been saved?

It’s impossible for the public to know at the moment. Police will be extra careful about crossing all ts and dotting all i with this i’d imagine. It’s all very tense because of proposed policing/protest legislation, actions of the Met, Sarah Everard and ongoing focus on George Floyd case and BLM.

 

[Cuko]

Such devastating news for Richard’s mother, father and friends. They must be feeling unimaginable pain.

 

[Inthedetails]

Saved? It depends what he did and when.

If his intention was suicide, and he achieved it in the hours following the last CCTV sighting, then no he could not have been saved as his mother was still at work, and did not know that he'd gone out (just that he wasn't answering his phone). The police couldn't act until someone has noticed he's gone. And she couldn't help being at work in those first hours, or needing to sleep at the end of a shift.

But perhaps the police could have found him earlier, if they had acted sooner and got the taxi lead earlier. That would have shortened the period of uncertainty for his family. But saved him? Probably not, unless full PM findings lead them to change their assessment of no third party involvement

I agree. And it's not uncommon for people in anguish and grief to lash out in anger.

RIP, Richard. My sincere condolences to his parents and loved ones.

 

[Cuko]

Apologies if this is the wrong to time to say so, but I still have many questions, particularly regarding Richard’s very lengthy journey to a place with which, according to his mother, he had no known connection. I guess more information will emerge but the feeling that something fundamental has been missed or withheld is so strong.

 

[reservoir_of_rage]

I'm very curious about the bag he was carrying. The CCTV from the bus doesn't show the bag but he can be seen clutching the bag when he gets out the UBer in Loughton. I wonder if he met a friend ,picked something up that was to be dropped off in Loughton? Could this be the reason for the trip there? Also was this bag found when his body was recovered and what was in the bag. If the bag hasn't been found then perhaps it was taken? If he left without his wallet or meds then what did he take with him? JMO but I do think the bag is significant and another reason I don't think this adds up to suicide. What would you need to take with you that's more important than your wallet phone or jacket? Plus the timing of the Uber is interesting to me, its approx a 45 min journey from the area he was in to Loughton meaning he would of got the Uber near on midnight.. trains stop running shortly before midnight so perhaps he missed the last train out hence getting a cab . Seems more plausible to me that he got bus to meet someone near him to pick something up ( what I'm not sure) missed last train to Loughton so got a cab. Suicide just doesn't really fit IMO. Just really hoping a conclusive cause of death can be established

 

[HongKongPhooey]

Bless your heart Richard, I hope you are at peace

 

[Barbieshell]

RIP Richard, I just wish h could have talked to someone bless him - an absolute tragedy

 

[10ofRods]

I disagree that 'pretty much every Mum thinks this'.
A lot of Mum's can notice the differences between kids acting out and actual clinical depression that leads to suicide.
Whilst most ruminations of suicide and the act of suicide are usually a closely guarded secret by the sufferer, there are usually clues that are picked up on by perceptive and MH educated parents.

I've worked in mental health settings for years, and I don't believe there's any evidence to support this, sadly. Children of psychologists and psychiatrists do attempt suicide (and sometimes succeed), even though their parents are loving and mentally health trained. It's tragic.

I have no idea what a MH trained parent might be. There's no "parent training in mental health" where I live - people have to learn on their own, or from their own psychologist, or from self-help books and groups. When depression is diagnosed in older teens and young adults, their parents are often included in family therapy, but this in no way guarantees that parents will notice whatever clues you think there might be.

Suicidal people handle their plans in many different ways. I think well-trained clinicians get a sense for when a patient is indeed actively suicidal, but even then, many times they are wrong. At any rate, my children's father is a well-respected psychiatrist and I have years of experience in mental health settings - but neither of us would say that we can "easily notice the difference between kids acting out and actual clinical depression," especially in our own family members. Clinical depression itself has many forms, including the "smiling form."

 

[tedtink]

I've worked in mental health settings for years, and I don't believe there's any evidence to support this

No evidence to support what?
I have my own evidence as I have been a psychotherapist for over 20 years and plenty of life experience in these matters.
I also worked for one of the leading mental health charities in the UK for 16 years.
I have educated and coached parents on recognising MH issues in children and work with many adolescents and adults who have depression and suicidal thoughts.

I shouldn't have to list my experience, neither should you.

 

[ApparentlyInDenial]

<modsnip: Quoted post was removed> ... For any Londoner who hasn't been to Epping Forest, going there at midnight is a big deal. The other context is outdoor suicide in the wild; it's incredibly unusual for it to happen in a space where the intendant has no prior connection. Drowning suicides are also very very rare (only 1-9% of drownings are suicides).

So that feeling is just a reaction - I think anyway - to the context feeling 'off.' He may well have committed suicide, and also maybe something else happened that can't be explained. For now there's no evidence of 'something else' happening, and there's also no evidence of suicide.

 

[KHA]

I'm very curious about the bag he was carrying. The CCTV from the bus doesn't show the bag but he can be seen clutching the bag when he gets out the UBer in Loughton. I wonder if he met a friend ,picked something up that was to be dropped off in Loughton? Could this be the reason for the trip there? Also was this bag found when his body was recovered and what was in the bag. If the bag hasn't been found then perhaps it was taken? If he left without his wallet or meds then what did he take with him? JMO but I do think the bag is significant and another reason I don't think this adds up to suicide. What would you need to take with you that's more important than your wallet phone or jacket? Plus the timing of the Uber is interesting to me, its approx a 45 min journey from the area he was in to Loughton meaning he would of got the Uber near on midnight.. trains stop running shortly before midnight so perhaps he missed the last train out hence getting a cab . Seems more plausible to me that he got bus to meet someone near him to pick something up ( what I'm not sure) missed last train to Loughton so got a cab. Suicide just doesn't really fit IMO. Just really hoping a conclusive cause of death can be established

As far as I was aware I didn’t think the bus cctv has been released? Have you seen it?

As for the bag, he has it on when he is captured on cctv leaving his home. It’s a small bag, likely just to carry his phone if his pockets were not secure. I don’t believe it has any relevance. To me there are a lot of questions, but ones that are very unlikely to be answered as I do think this was suicide.

 

[Sundried]

I think it's just a reaction to the context. For any Londoner who hasn't been to Epping Forest, going there at midnight is a big deal. The other context is outdoor suicide in the wild; it's incredibly unusual for it to happen in a space where the intendant has no prior connection. Drowning suicides are also very very rare (only 1-9% of drownings are suicides).

So that feeling is just a reaction - I think anyway - to the context feeling 'off.' He may well have committed suicide, and also maybe something else happened that can't be explained. For now there's no evidence of 'something else' happening, and there's also no evidence of suicide.

His mum said he had no connection to Epping Forest. My mum certainly didn’t know everywhere I went at 19 and I was no wayward teen. I don’t see why there has to be a connection anyway, he just perhaps felt it was an ideal spot to carry out what he was planning to do. Incredibly rare perhaps but not unlikely at all.

 

[Sundried]

I just feel that by proposing that something else MUST HAVE happened we are undermining the fact that mental health was more likely at play and should be taken more seriously. JMO and perhaps I’m just feeling incredibly sad and sensitive towards the subject because I know what it feels like to be in such a dark place with suicidal thoughts.

 

[ApparentlyInDenial]

His mum said he had no connection to Epping Forest. My mum certainly didn’t know everywhere I went at 19 and I was no wayward teen. I don’t see why there has to be a connection anyway, he just perhaps felt it was an ideal spot to carry out what he was planning to do. Incredibly rare perhaps but not unlikely at all.

The stats and profilers would disagree with you. But I get your point, exceptions can and do happen and we don't know RO's mind. Also something can't be both not unlikely and incredibly rare

 

[Sarahlou]

His mum said he had no connection to Epping Forest. My mum certainly didn’t know everywhere I went at 19 and I was no wayward teen. I don’t see why there has to be a connection anyway, he just perhaps felt it was an ideal spot to carry out what he was planning to do. Incredibly rare perhaps but not unlikely at all.

Agreed. There would probably be a lot his mum didn't know, depending on how private he was.
I don't see anything strange about this case, from the start it sounded like a depressed man who had gone somewhere to take his life to me.

 

[Smkd]

This is just impossibly sad. Rest in peace, Richard.

Richard’s story has brought a lot of attention to sickle cell disease and I wanted to take a moment to encourage people to donate blood if they’re able to. I very recently found out that I’m type B+, which in the UK is fairly rare (only 8% of people), yet people of African descent have it at a rate of about 20%. As we have learned, sickle cell disease affects mostly people of African descent so if like me you have B+ type blood, please consider donating to help people like Richard and many others. That being said, every blood type is needed

I hope this is allowed, I have been thinking about him and his family a lot and I wanted to spread that message in his memory

 

[reservoir_of_rage]

As far as I was aware I didn’t think the bus cctv has been released? Have you seen it?

As for the bag, he has it on when he is captured on cctv leaving his home. It’s a small bag, likely just to carry his phone if his pockets were not secure. I don’t believe it has any relevance. To me there are a lot of questions, but ones that are very unlikely to be answered as I do think this was suicide.

 

[reservoir_of_rage]

I've studied the pictures and there's certainly more than a mobile phone in the bag which is not visible in the CCTV still from the bus which was released. In addition he is holding a phone in his hand in the CCTV footage in Loughton hence the reason for thinking he had something else

 

[reservoir_of_rage]

As far as I was aware I didn’t think the bus cctv has been released? Have you seen it?

As for the bag, he has it on when he is captured on cctv leaving his home. It’s a small bag, likely just to carry his phone if his pockets were not secure. I don’t believe it has any relevance. To me there are a lot of questions, but ones that are very unlikely to be answered as I do think this was suicide.

 

[KHA]

I've studied the pictures and there's certainly more than a mobile phone in the bag which is not visible in the CCTV still from the bus which was released. In addition he is holding the phone in his hand hence the reason for thinking he had something else

The first cctv image is from the building he lives in. The bus footage has not been released. He is also captured on Kensal Road with the bag clearly seen. (I have added that still)
My son has an almost identical one, they are relatively stiff and hold their shape and in terms of on the cctv from Loughton it does not look anymore full, or full at all, than when he was on Kensal Road. JMO