GUILTY UK - Rolf Harris for molesting underage girls, child *advertiser censored*, 2013

[Ausgirl]

I grew up listening to Rolf.. my family just adored him. His songs were among the first I can recall, along with nursery rhymes.

While I always thought Jimmy Savile was a bit of a creep, Rolf comes across as just a very nice man, humble and good-humoured.. so that, as opposed to the fact he is Aussie, is why I am so in shock about these allegations.

I agree -- if he was a molester, then in 60 years of being a popular entertainer, there WILL be more than two victims. Look at Savile - and I 100% believe he was a serial molester, among other things - hundreds of victims speaking up, and there were allegations, rumours and charges prior as well.

I've never heard "Rolf's a pedo" though.. Never heard rumours, there's never been other charges...

I'm not saying "OMG INNOCENT" - just that in my mind right now, there's room for doubt as to his guilt, where there was absolutely none at all for Savile.

eta: FWIW, one of my molesters was the "furtive" kind, just as discussed here. Outside the bathroom, peeking through keyholes, quick grabs, "accidental" genital exposure, all of it. Disgusting... and no way I could speak up, I was the perfect victim.

But I was not his only victim.. and like him, like Savile, I would expect there to be more credible victims speaking up in the near future if Rolf is indeed a molester.

 

[Cappuccino]

True Sapphire Steel, an accusation is not enough to assume guilt. I do believe her though, so I guess I am assuming it hey? Look forward to seeing what evidence is out there, and in particular to the four images mentioned. Want to see what they were EXACTLY. Paintings?

Its more likely to be computer images. In Britain when you download a picture that is classed as child *advertiser censored* the crime is described as having created an indecent image, because taken literally, you have created a new image on your computer by pressing right click.

 

[SapphireSteel]

Here is an interview with one of the victims, is this the same one Strangeworld?
A Current Affair ROLF HARRIS SEXUAL ABUSE VICTIM's Interview - 13 May 2013 - YouTube

I've watched this through twice now.

Observations -

She always wanted to be famous
She cannot sleep in bed but only on the sofa, with the tv on
She has been in and out of mental hospitals
She became an alcoholic, bulimic, and drug addict - but -
The truth didn't hit her until she had her youngest child - but -
It ruined her life and caused everything to go wrong - but -
She's a married bank manager with 3 kids.

Kind of successful for someone who's life was ruined.

Also, the allegation says Rolf and his wife met her group. Presumably his wife was sitting next to him when he stroked her thigh, along with the rest of the group. She alleges no penetration of any kind, fairly "mild" on the trauma/violence scale although these things are subjective.

She also says something about tablecloths in a London Pub which I find kind of unlikely, somehow.

When she talks about the physical realities of where the molestation was alleged to have occurred, outside the bathroom, she looks down and to the right. When she talks about other feelings and details, it is peppered with "ums' and she looks up to the left.

I know they've debunked the left/right eye movement thing, but I find it significant that the only time she looks right is when she's retelling something provable.

Being so traumatised you cant sleep in a bed tends to indicate some sort of abuse occurred, but in a bed not a pub hallway.

:cow:

ETA: what sort of bank manager has been in and out of mental hospitals? :waitasec:

 

[SapphireSteel]

Please watch the whole interview. She explains what happened in great detail. I was a victim of a very similar type of abuse as a child by an older relative, this is EXACTLY how he was with me too, right down to waiting outside the bathroom door. Of course wait until you have seen all the evidence and can have a look for yourself, I completely understand, but to be harsh towards the victim and imply it wasn't a real assault does upset those of us who have gone through exactly what she has. :twocents:

I am a survivor myself and personally find it far more despicable to allege illegal acts 30 years afterward, on prime time tv.

Where's the police report?

I have no doubt this woman was molested in her life, none at all. I just don't know if it was Rolf Harris who did it, or if this (admittedly) unbalanced woman has imagined the experience or embroidered it or remembered it wrongly.

The fact she's telling the telly instead of the police make me doubt her credibility, regardless of what I personally feel regarding Rolf.

Please don't tell other survivors how we are supposed to feel.

:twocents:

 

[SapphireSteel]

Here is an interview with one of the victims, is this the same one Strangeworld?

Surely you mean, alleged victims?

 

[Strangeworld]

Thanks for posting the vid, Mrs Norris. That is the one.

I have many thoughts after reading today's comments here. I won't respond individually to each, but here are just a few of my thoughts.

There is no one way for a victim to act after any sort of assault. Full stop. I can tell you there are MANY people who appear successful, who have a wealth of suffering going on under the surface. Success in life is measured in many ways, and I can guarantee if you spoke to most people who were victims of assault, the one thing that falters throughout most of their life is their self esteem and self worth. You can still hold down a job/career, have a family, etc whilst suffering a torment under the surface.

And abusers act in many ways. Full stop. They can be overt or covert. Abuse in front of others sneakily or in private. It can be a long drawn out assault, or one so quick it can leave the victim feeling like they almost imagined it (which the perpetrator may actually prefer, as it can raise doubt in not only the victim's mind of the seriousness of the assault, but also when and if they report it).

The pattern of PTSD, self-abuse and self-harm, triggers, self-doubt, hesitancy in reporting, etc displayed by this woman suggest to me she is truthful and she knows exactly who did this to her. It is extremely rare for someone to totally mistake the abuser, even with years of nightmares, flashbacks, etc. She wasn't a child at the time - she was a teenager who was more than likely going through puberty. She was verging on been a woman, and if this event happened as she described it, it would have been Extremely confusing and weird. I really understand why it took her so long to report it.

I have always admired RH, and I am, like many others, was utterly dumb-founded when I heard about his charges months ago. But I also responded that same way when the Hey Dad actor was accused too. Sometimes there are celebrities that we grow up with who we only see the public side of them, and believe that is who they are. We never truly know what their personal lives are like, even if we happen to meet them once or twice, or know someone that knows them. Even family and friends of perpetrators usually don't have a window into the 'other side' of their personality.

I guess we have to wait to see what sort of evidence comes out in trial. But I believe this woman has come forward for a reason. Not for fame (who would want to be famous for this!!), nor for attention. Just simply to be heard. It can be VERY cathartic and therapeutic to finally speak about these sorts of things. Sometimes it is done in the privacy of a counselling office. Other times it is done more publicly. I don't think a potential victim should be looked at negatively for choosing whatever way they wish to work through their pain.

Sorry - very long-winded. But I just wanted to get some of these thoughts down while they were fresh.

 

[Strangeworld]

And in relation to people lying for whatever reason, this investigation would have the top of the top investigators who are very experienced in detecting real victims from false victims (even those who have convinced themselves the abuse happened when it didn't - like false memories). This is a massive international investigation stemming from a very large pool of victims. I have faith that the police and detectives have been extremely thorough and are confident in their arrests.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

Great post Strangeworld!! I agree with you wholeheartedly!! Everybody is different, I too was shocked to hear about these charges, as I think many Australians were.

 

[Flinders]

Thank you for this thread! Am I the only one who never sang 'Tie my Kangaroo down sport'. Let us add 'Jake with a 3rd Leg'

Anyone here who would like to tie anyone down? Anyone who is a child listening to a man talking about a man's third leg? The 3rd leg disgusted me as an adult. As a child, I might have given the OBE help.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

Not to leave out 'Two Little Boys' .. I loved the TV show where he painted those huge murals with house brushes! The trenchcoat in Jake the Peg is slightly disturbing now considering ..

 

[Ausgirl]

For the record - I loved Jake the Peg, and cannot see anything sinister in it. Rolf, molester or not, is a story-teller. Not much of a singer, but a great spinner of yarns, and that's what the songs are, and were intended to be. IMO.

SapphireSteel, you're not alone in your observations.. note the use of 'up' and 'down', is all I'll say on the interview for now.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

This is from the painting show...
[video=youtube;RE1cZXt34tw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RE1cZXt34tw[/video]

 

[Ausgirl]

Transcribed from the ACA interview linked earlier. Note the use of 'up' and 'down':


3:10
TL: He moved his hand .. um.. down, underneath my duffel coat. Moved his hand . um..to the band of my skirt and put his hand down my skirt.. and down the stockings, pantyhose.. and down my underpants and.. and pushed his hand down my pants and fondled me.

6:30 (describing first alleged incident)
TL: um.. and then he put his hand my thigh, so.. Then I started to feel a bit weird. So the hand he had on me, he sort of moved around across my thigh .. um.. because my legs were on the outside of his legs. And that's when he moved his hand up.. up my skirt.

ACA: What was going through your mind at that time?

TL: Then I started to get worried and started to get a bit scared. Um... 'cause.. happened quickly, and then it started to go up quite high, up towards, um, my pants. It went right up to the top but he wasn't inside and touching my skin or anything like that.

8.00 (describing second alleged incident)
TL: Um.. he.. came over to me and sort of edged me toward the pot plant. And then w.. sort of made out like he was going to give me a hug. So.. um, I was sort of wedged in between.. um.. the potplant and .. um.. he had his hand over me. Um.. I can't remember exactly what he said but it was something like, 'Oh there you are' or, you know, s.. something along those lines. Gave me a hug, and I didn't say anything, 'cause I was pretty frozen at that stage, and I.. I was scared, 'cause I was trapped, basically, and um.. I didn't.. I didn't scream, I don't know why, um.. Then he put his hands.. um.. on my top. And put his hands down.. um.. my top. Um.. and.. started to touch my breasts and then really quickly, with the same hand, um, before I knew it he put his hands up my skirt and he put his hands um, down my tights and pants.


Odd use of plurals, also.

So.. was there a THIRD incident, where Rolf went down the waistband of her skirt, as she said at 3:10? Or can't she keep the details of her story straight?

Things that make you go hmm.

 

[SapphireSteel]

Transcribed from the ACA interview linked earlier. Note the use of 'up' and 'down':


3:10
TL: He moved his hand .. um.. down, underneath my duffel coat. Moved his hand . um..to the band of my skirt and put his hand down my skirt.. and down the stockings, pantyhose.. and down my underpants and.. and pushed his hand down my pants and fondled me.

6:30 (describing first alleged incident)
TL: um.. and then he put his hand my thigh, so.. Then I started to feel a bit weird. So the hand he had on me, he sort of moved around across my thigh .. um.. because my legs were on the outside of his legs. And that's when he moved his hand up.. up my skirt.

ACA: What was going through your mind at that time?

TL: Then I started to get worried and started to get a bit scared. Um... 'cause.. happened quickly, and then it started to go up quite high, up towards, um, my pants. It went right up to the top but he wasn't inside and touching my skin or anything like that.

8.00 (describing second alleged incident)
TL: Um.. he.. came over to me and sort of edged me toward the pot plant. And then w.. sort of made out like he was going to give me a hug. So.. um, I was sort of wedged in between.. um.. the potplant and .. um.. he had his hand over me. Um.. I can't remember exactly what he said but it was something like, 'Oh there you are' or, you know, s.. something along those lines. Gave me a hug, and I didn't say anything, 'cause I was pretty frozen at that stage, and I.. I was scared, 'cause I was trapped, basically, and um.. I didn't.. I didn't scream, I don't know why, um.. Then he put his hands.. um.. on my top. And put his hands down.. um.. my top. Um.. and.. started to touch my breasts and then really quickly, with the same hand, um, before I knew it he put his hands up my skirt and he put his hands um, down my tights and pants.


Odd use of plurals, also.

So.. was there a THIRD incident, where Rolf went down the waistband of her skirt, as she said at 3:10? Or can't she keep the details of her story straight?

Things that make you go hmm.

Oh nice work, Ausgirl. Nice work. :goodpost:

 

[Ausgirl]

I think ACA placed that comment at 3:10 for a reason, SS....

Smart reporting. IMO.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

I thought at first he had fondled her at the table, then when she excused herself he followed her to the bathroom and a second incident occurred there .. Hence the two different hand directions etc.

 

[Ausgirl]

That is what she says happened, Mrs, G.

Problem is, in neither of those incidents does she describe his hand going 'down' the waistband of her skirt, as she clearly states at 3: 10.

In her following statements regarding both incidents (at the table and at the toilets), she clearly describes RH putting his hand UP her skirt, then down her tights, etc.

No mention of him going DOWN the waistband. No mention of the band at all.

She's very specific with these details. So what's with the discrepancy at 3:10? Also, the strange use of plurals rings oddly with me.

Perhaps Jake has an extra arm, too.


or it's a pile of BS

 

[Mrs G Norris]

I believe her, but I'll watch the interview again ..

 

[Ausgirl]

I believe -something- terrible has happened for this woman, she is obviously troubled.

I really do not believe she was molested by Rolf Harris.

 

[SapphireSteel]

That is what she says happened, Mrs, G.

Problem is, in neither of those incidents does she describe his hand going 'down' the waistband of her skirt, as she clearly states at 3: 10.

In her following statements regarding both incidents (at the table and at the toilets), she clearly describes RH putting his hand UP her skirt, then down her tights, etc.

No mention of him going DOWN the waistband. No mention of the band at all.

She's very specific with these details. So what's with the discrepancy at 3:10? Also, the strange use of plurals rings oddly with me.

Perhaps Jake has an extra arm, too.

or it's a pile of BS

:lol:

Plus nerves of steel, to molest a girl he'd only just met, in front of his wife and an entire performing troupe plus guests.

He hadn't had time to groom her and couldn't know she wasn't going to run screaming straight back into the bar.

:cow: