GUILTY UK - Sarah Everard, 33, London, Clapham Common area, 3 Mar 2021 *Life sentence* #16

[Whitehall 1212]

Thank you so much Whitehall for this long, very informative post. Respectfully shortened by me because anybody who wants can refer back to your original for the complete information.

UBM - Sadly according to what a former boyfriend of SE is quoted as saying about her on Thread #15, post 772 (savvy and streetwise etc), it sounds as if she might well have been able to act in accordance with your suggestion here, had she only known. I don't think I'm the only person who might not be able to. When under stress, I go into Freeze (instead of Fight or Flight) and can't even think properly never mind defend myself verbally. Unfortunately somebody in a uniform with appropriate ID will know they have a good chance of getting away with it because of Freeze response in some people.

RIP Sarah.

I think the best I can offer is what I would do as a guy walking somewhere, generally at night, on my own because I have no option

1. Phone/wallet/purse away/bag concealed or worn securely
2. Headphones off
3. Know your route
4. Know where you are - download What 3 Words to your phone. Police will accept this instead of a geographical locn
5. Walk in well lit areas where possible
6. Walk on the pavement side near the road at night
7. Be aware of your surroundings.....are people walking towards you, catching up behind you, crossing the road towards you? If so cross over the road to keep your distance and keep an eye out.
8. Don't approach any unmarked cars even if they stop and beacon you over, shout at you
9. If concerned go to a well lit area where there are other people, e.g. shop, petrol station etc
10. Phone 999 if you need help

Be aware of your surroundings is the best and keep moving purposefully. If you are not in range you can't be a target

This is sensible common sense stuff. I know we don't like to feel we have to change a potential threat, but avoidance is always better than confrontation.

I always lock my car doors when driving. In cities where car jacking is a happening I always leave plenty of room from the car in front when stationary or at traffic lights, so that I can pull out and get out, if a car boxes me in from behind.

It's all about being aware, not being scared because you have a plan to get from A to B and you're switched on to it.

 

[Dotta]

He might end up in so called
"Beast Wing" at HMP Full Sutton.

 

[Skigh]

Met Police investigate whether Wayne Couzens has struck BEFORE: Police reveal 'on-going' probe | Daily Mail Online

 

[LucyRocket]

@Whitehall 1212

Thank you for being here with us. You are an example of a good cop, and I know that's one of the reasons why this case gets to you so much. You seem like such a caring professional, and therefore this situation happening I'm sure will have rocked you. The advice and information you are sharing is valuable, and may be very important to one of us, one day

 

[Ched]

The police watchdog previously said he was linked to a flashing incident in 2015 and two more days before he killed Ms Everard.

At a briefing at Scotland Yard following the sentencing, Assistant Met Commissioner Nick Ephgrave told reporters one of the indecent exposure incidents at a McDonald’s restaurant in Swanley was reported just 72 hours before the abduction.

Couzens was not named but his car was reported to officers, who were said to have not yet completed the investigation.

DCI Katherine Goodwin said she was not aware of any more serious allegations, but said inquiries are ongoing into whether Couzens is responsible for any other crimes.

“Thus far there is nothing of the nature or seriousness of the offences for which he has been put in prison today,” she said.
Sarah Everard: Couzens to die behind bars as police probe ‘more crimes’

 

[Whitehall 1212]

This makes sense. But he wasn't acting in his duty. And I wouldn't have known or questioned the extreme measures and I doubt Sarah would have either.

Understood.

I think the best advice then, which the Met has responded to, is don't approach an unmarked vehicle or a single occupant who claims to be a police officer, even in what looks like uniform. Phone 999 and get to a well lit busy area and make a lot of noise if you a concerned.

Always be aware of you surroundings and keep moving purposefully.

 

[CuriousObserver1]

You could only have one household as your bubble though. Hers would have been with her boyfriend or family. She could have visited her friend as long as they stayed outside, unlikely on a cold winter night.
One does wonder how he would have dealt with someone who had stayed firmly within the rules.

I think unless someone was bold enough to just walk off, he would have asked to see proof and if they could not present any continued with trying to arrest them and say they will have to deal with it at the station, or if they could (say an NHS ID), I think he would have just looked for another victim.

A witness said she had her head down and looked resigned to being arrested as she was putting her other arm around her back, at the time there were loads of people being arrested for minor covid rule breaking so I think she would have well believed him if he said he had to arrest her. Then while thinking of what to say and how to justify being out, she did not have time to really process what was happening until she had the cuffs on and was in the car and it was too late

 

[tedtink]

I think unless someone was bold enough to just walk off, he would have asked to see proof and if they could not present any continued with trying to arrest them and say they will have to deal with it at the station, or if they could (say an NHS ID), I think he would have just looked for another victim.

A witness said she had her head down and looked resigned to being arrested as she was putting her other arm around her back, at the time there were loads of people being arrested for minor covid rule breaking so I think she would have well believed him if he said he had to arrest her. Then while thinking of what to say and how to justify being out, she did not have time to really process what was happening until she had the cuffs on and was in the car and it was too late

If it had have been me, my next thought may have been, OK, so I've been arrested, but now I have chance to get in the car, go to the Police Station and make a statement and I'll face my fate later.

WHO would even think that they were going to be raped and murdered by a PO? It wouldn't even had crossed many peoples minds before SE, so why even fight your corner at arrest.

This was a man who was in a perceived position of trust.

 

[lensamps]

Then while thinking of what to say and how to justify being out, she did not have time to really process what was happening until she had the cuffs on and was in the car and it was too late

I think this is it, she must have been so in shock at the weirdness and unexpectedness of the situation that she couldn't really process it enough to challenge it until things were too late.

 

[Ched]

Plain clothes officers ‘will not be deployed alone’ following Sarah Everard case Sarah Everard: Plain clothes officers will no longer be deployed alone

 

[Newthoughts]

Helena Horton
@horton_official

"Ms Everard's family have asked via the Met Police that the media do not use photos of Sarah alongside those of Wayne Couzens. Hope newspapers take that request seriously."


Quite right

It'll be a first if the do. Breaks my heart that every report of a vile murder the victim is always pictured next to the perpetrator

 

[tallmansix]

Do you think police can access mobile phones which ping close to the scene of a serious crime?
Like, just pull up a list of all mobiles pinging close to Poynders Rd at 9.30pm 3rd March
...
Could GCHQ track all mobiles that were in the Poynders Rd area at 9.30 pm maybe?
He left his phone on the entire time also.

Yes they can but it is a needle in a haystack problem, each cell tower could have thousands of phones actively connected to it, especially in a built up area like London. The number is also constantly changing as people are moving through the area or phones switch towers to get a stronger signal or simply switch on and off etc. And with 4 main mobile networks as well the problem can multiply quickly and there isn't much you can do with a list of thousands of mobile numbers connected in a specific area.

Police mostly use cell tower activity in the other way round, ie they know a specific number and then they will ask the mobile provider to provide details of the towers that phone connected to.

GCHQ aren't required in these circumstance, all mobile phone operators will cooperate with the police and provide data on the activities of a particular phone subject to specific warrant / court authorisation.

 

[Dotta]

I wonder if workers of foreign embassies feel safe?
I mean if an American one was protected by a criminal?

 

[Whitehall 1212]

@Whitehall 1212

Thank you for being here with us. You are an example of a good cop, and I know that's one of the reasons why this case gets to you so much. You seem like such a caring professional, and therefore this situation happening I'm sure will have rocked you. The advice and information you are sharing is valuable, and may be very important to one of us, one day

That's really kind of you....thank you most sincerely. Yeah is does leave me stunned, extremely sad, betrayed etc. Cops really do run towards the danger and the vast majority do really care. Trust is hard won and easily lost....there's a lot of work to do to to rebuild the trust and things need to change.

 

[Stella123]

If it had have been me, my next thought may have been, OK, so I've been arrested, but now I have chance to get in the car, go to the Police Station and make a statement and I'll face my fate later.

WHO would even think that they were going to be raped and murdered by a PO? It wouldn't even had crossed many peoples minds before SE, so why even fight your corner at arrest.

This was a man who was in a perceived position of trust.

Exactly

 

[MancGuy Uk]

Nor couldn't undo her belt, car door handle, grab him, attack him. Nothing but plead. This is the point that gets to me most. All of the other things that have come up during sentencing were not a surprise to me, they were the most obvious conclusions I had come to. But as posters on this thread had said all of his equipment would have had to have been signed out at the start of his shift and signed back in at the end, I never imagined he might have so easily incapacitated her by handcuffing. That's just the most heinous thing. Coward. Weak, inadequate coward. I would love for him to have to listen to a letter from every one of us here read out aloud to him

The only thing she could have done was try running when they changed vehicles or even scream if she got a chance by the sound she did not get a chance in a sad way she was sort of doomed as soon has he put the handcuffs on her - It would have been interesting if another police car had passed the road when he was arresting her

 

[crazychris]

The lawyer in me would like to see an appeal. When creating a "new category" for police officers that seems right and just, it should be appealed for precedent value, including up one level to the Court of Appeal or perhaps even the Supreme Court. That is in my view the only and best way to protect the precedent that has been set today at the first level.

I agree. This whole-life tariff has been decided by one judge and as it's a precedent, should be looked at by other judges too.

It's usually given for more than one victim, terrorist attacks, killing of police or prison officers or torture then murder of children. The judge can also give it out if he/she feels the crime is at least as bad as one or more of those listed.

 

[Rusty Braincells]

Exactly

Quite so, and this was what Couzens banked on. It is one of the most disgusting abuses of power I’ve ever heard.

He should have offered no mitigation and saved the court’s time if he was genuinely sorry. If he appeals then I will not buy his claims of remorse.

 

[Whitehall 1212]

Yes they can but it is a needle in a haystack problem, each cell tower could have thousands of phones actively connected to it, especially in a built up area like London. The number is also constantly changing as people are moving through the area or phones switch towers to get a stronger signal or simply switch on and off etc. And with 4 main mobile networks as well the problem can multiply quickly and there isn't much you can do with a list of thousands of mobile numbers connected in a specific area.

Police mostly use cell tower activity in the other way round, ie they know a specific number and then they will ask the mobile provider to provide details of the towers that phone connected to.

GCHQ aren't required in these circumstance, all mobile phone operators will cooperate with the police and provide data on the activities of a particular phone subject to specific warrant / court authorisation.

I'd be looking as the cell site data for Sarah's phone. I may have been switched off as she was abducted or the SIM card removed, but it's rough last known position using triangulation could have been identifed. Phones with similar triangulation strengths at the same time could be be identified and then manual checks done to identify subscribers - trace, interview, eliminate to find the possible suspects or do more unobtrusive enquiries first to find key suspects.

If Sarah's phone was not switched off immediately then it could possibly be matched to vehicles on CCTV and ANPR travelling a similar route.

Painstaking work but that's what serious crime investigators are well versed in.

Fortunately the eye-witness and bus CCTV prevented having to do all that legwork.

 

[KensingtonandChelsea]

From what I know of my crime training, Crown Court judges can set precedents. The CoA/Supreme Court can only confirm them which doesn't change anything because in this case they're highly unlikely to disagree with Fulford's sentence.