Found Deceased UK - Sarah Everard, 33, London - Clapham Common area, 3 March 2021 *Arrests* #14

[lvbut]

The footage is still there. You have to look at the grass area first, where an effect of the light seems to move quickly up the screen. It cannot be verified to be a person, from that footage, whatever it is, it moves. Then look for a figure moving out from behind the bus stop advertising, this looks more like a person.

The footage is very grainy and would need some video enhancement in order to see if anything can be ascertained.

I’ve taken a couple of screenshots to point out the two areas of interest. The one closest to the bus stop could be a person, but the movement that kinda floats in the centre-right of the image might just be a light flare or similar?

Source: https://livetrains.co.uk/jamCams/osm/#00001.03770

 

[twinpinesmall]

I’ve taken a couple of screenshots to point out the two areas of interest. The one closest to the bus stop could be a person, but the movement that kinda floats in the centre-right of the image might just be a light flare or similar?

Source: https://livetrains.co.uk/jamCams/osm/#00001.03770

that is water on the lens of the camera. The light after it is light flare that first hits the bus stop and then due to the MASSIVE amount of video compression on these files, is artifacts of that same light spreading over the screen. IMO

 

[Angleterre]

<modsnip: Quoted post was modsnipped>That PC needs to be sacked. And a full investigation as to whether things like that are endemic in the force. For that to even exist must mean it has been used before! It is particularly crass and inappropriate - at any time - but in this situation, horrific IMO. I know bad taste humour is a stress release for people with high pressure jobs but in this situation ,......... There were some pretty crass "funnies" going around when the pandemic started and having worked in a hospital I''m aware that sometimes people make detached "jokes" to cope with the pressure. But this! All MOO.

I can assure you that every single police officer that I have spoken to about this meme, is horrified and described it in varying ways but the words despicable and deplorable and insensitive and grotesque etc were used over again so no, it’s not endemic at all. This probationary police officer did not create this , foolishly , stupidly , insensitively, he circulated it and as disgusting as the meme was, and as stupid and insensitive as the trainee officer was, he is not the author and therefore he will be dealt with accordingly but I would like the culprit identified because this reflects badly on all UK police officers which is just not fair . SE’s family have enough to be going along with, without being confronted with this disgusting situation on top . I for one , am purely thinking of them at this time

 

[elliefant]

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I was more thinking of how PR explained Libby's death with his 5 versions of events non of which covered any intent as far as I can remember.

But thank you for clarifying.

I don’t think he acknowledged even an accidental role in her death, in any of his versions did he?

I get what you’re saying though that WC might insist it was accidental, and also what @Angleterre is saying that they were obliged to tell him what reason/evidence they have to say there was intent. He could still deny it all & say it was an accident, then it would be up to a trial to prove that intent I guess.

 

[mrjitty]

Prior to an interview, the DP is given in the presence of their solicitor, disclosure of the material facts in the possession of the police at the time of the interview . Disclosure is given up front and is not held back because all that will happen is that if you haven’t disclosed something as the interviewing officer and you bring it up in the interview and question the DP about it, all that will happen is the solicitor will stop the interview and say ‘Officer , you haven’t disclosed this and therefore I want full disclosure so that I can go away and advise my client accordingly’ and the interview will be stopped until the solicitor and the DP, have had the opportunity to discuss this latest piece of evidence before they recommence the interview. I think that the public will be surprised by this because the police literally are showing in advance, all the cards that they hold and you can no longer surprise a DP or drop something on them , thereby giving them the element of surprise because if you do, your interview is stopped so there’s really no point.

Thanks @Angleterre

It's also worth mentioning a related point that if you don't give a pre-trial statement, but also don't want to testify at trial it may become impossible to get your version in to evidence.

Let's say hypothetically you really did go to McDs. Defence could produce a debit card records, and maybe CCTV. All good and you can stand it up at trial.

Alternatively let's say hypothetically what really happened is you took a wrong turn while distracted, and ended up on the wrong road. Only you can give that evidence. So if you don't give it pre-trial, suddenly you have a major issue getting it in front of the jury

 

[kittythehare]

Prior to an interview, the DP is given in the presence of their solicitor, disclosure of the material facts in the possession of the police at the time of the interview . Disclosure is given up front and is not held back because all that will happen is that if you haven’t disclosed something as the interviewing officer and you bring it up in the interview and question the DP about it, all that will happen is the solicitor will stop the interview and say ‘Officer , you haven’t disclosed this and therefore I want full disclosure so that I can go away and advise my client accordingly’ and the interview will be stopped until the solicitor and the DP, have had the opportunity to discuss this latest piece of evidence before they recommence the interview. I think that the public will be surprised by this because the police literally are showing in advance, all the cards that they hold and you can no longer surprise a DP or drop something on them , thereby giving them the element of surprise because if you do, your interview is stopped so there’s really no point.

Thank you.
Does this mean the the very first interview(s) with a suspect are the most telling, prior to a solicitor being appointed?

 

[Smkd]

That meme. Just awful. I'm struggling with the fact that the probationer felt as though he had latitude to send it. It's worrying that that he did so, and that he was comfortable thinking that fellow officers would find it acceptable. The holes in the screening process for new recruits need to be closed, quickly.

Just catching up now. Honestly, it feels like he doesn’t realise he’s not at the pub with the lads anymore and most grown ups in the real world don’t find that kind of teenage edgelord stuff funny at all. He probably hasn’t known his colleagues long, since as you mentioned he’s a probationer, and probably doesn’t understand that they’re his colleagues and not his mates. He probably saw them make dark jokes in the past and wanted to fit in but completely missed the mark. I read about the image he sent and it just seems to depict what might’ve happened to Sarah so I just fail to see how that could be funny in any circumstance, let alone in the immediate aftermath of a tragedy. Like, read the room.

Anyway, he should probably look into becoming a florist or baker, idk. Just something with lower stakes

 

[CuriousObserver1]

Should have included the close up from earlier in the thread sorryView attachment 289012

Do we know if this has at least been passed to the police? They will be able to enhance and check number plate.

 

[Joolz1975]

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I don’t think he acknowledged even an accidental role in her death, in any of his versions did he?

I get what you’re saying though that WC might insist it was accidental, and also what @Angleterre is saying that they were obliged to tell him what reason/evidence they have to say there was intent. He could still deny it all & say it was an accident, then it would be up to a trial to prove that intent I guess.

Yes that is what I was getting at, he could still deny it even though he has been told the evidence doesn't support his version.

Anyway obviously I am very wrong so will shut up

 

[Angleterre]

I agree I work in the NHS and we can have a sick sense of humour also ...I agree its really good it was reported by colleagues and transparent in its dealing with it

My worry was if this meme was made specifically for this case ...which seems likely it actually gives information away that only the police should know

Exactly this ! And could undermine any prosecution case .

 

[CuriousObserver1]

I’ve taken a couple of screenshots to point out the two areas of interest. The one closest to the bus stop could be a person, but the movement that kinda floats in the centre-right of the image might just be a light flare or similar?

Source: https://livetrains.co.uk/jamCams/osm/#00001.03770

If you go back in 5min intervals to 9.30pm there is a man walking/pulling a dog so makes sense he could have then walked across the grass, and the camera is a lot further up the road than Poyner's Court if that is where the bus dashcam saw the car stopped.

 

[MsMiniSleuth]

I’ve taken a couple of screenshots to point out the two areas of interest. The one closest to the bus stop could be a person, but the movement that kinda floats in the centre-right of the image might just be a light flare or similar?

Source: https://livetrains.co.uk/jamCams/osm/#00001.03770

Why are you refocusing back at this site? Nothing has been established taking place here, otherwise police would have been on it. We know whatever happened occurred back outside Poynders Court.

 

[Angleterre]

Thank you.
Does this mean the the very first interview(s) with a suspect are the most telling, prior to a solicitor being appointed?

I’m not sure what you mean Kitty
If a solicitor is requested then you don’t do any interviews with the DP without one being present .

 

[ajam10]

This is how I perceived the image and it looks normal to me.

I agree. I dont think this is SE as it looks like a dark jacket.

 

[Sherlockhames]

Prior to an interview, the DP is given in the presence of their solicitor, disclosure of the material facts in the possession of the police at the time of the interview . Disclosure is given up front and is not held back because all that will happen is that if you haven’t disclosed something as the interviewing officer and you bring it up in the interview and question the DP about it, all that will happen is the solicitor will stop the interview and say ‘Officer , you haven’t disclosed this and therefore I want full disclosure so that I can go away and advise my client accordingly’ and the interview will be stopped until the solicitor and the DP, have had the opportunity to discuss this latest piece of evidence before they recommence the interview. I think that the public will be surprised by this because the police literally are showing in advance, all the cards that they hold and you can no longer surprise a DP or drop something on them , thereby giving them the element of surprise because if you do, your interview is stopped so there’s really no point.

Thank you very much for this. That is really interesting about have to disclose everything up front. I mean - it also makes complete sense both in terms of fact pattern but also fairness!

At what point in an investigation such as this would the interview be carried out? Would the police be looking to get a narrative of events quite fast based on initial events or in a case such as this, would they wait until they had as much evidence as possible before starting the interview? I note there are timeframes for holding an accused - would these be used fully? Just interested on the basis that - eg there is fairly good evidence to support an arrest and maybe even a possible charge so an interview is carried out, but then what if more information subsequently comes to light? Does that mean a new interview? Or is there really only one - once the police believe they have enough of a case to answer? And would they start testing the DP version of events immediately? I suppose it comes down to some extent to the credibility or otherwise of the response. Such that once the police reveal their evidence and then hear the DP counter narrative, does this change the view of events in the police mind or not.

New to all this crime stuff in real time. But I find it really interesting (but pleasing that there are such robust processes in place compared to what those of us lay people might imagine happens!)

 

[Smkd]

it has been specifically altered to fit some version of the crime. It’s quite detailed as I said I still have it on my phone. You can see where he has altered the original photo as you can see the whites where he has changed text on the image.


I am not one for sacking people willy nilly especially at the moment but it’s sick and crass and he shouldn’t be in this type of job if he thinks making light of a gruesome murder is funny. Also the fact it could very well give details away of how she was found which they are probably trying to keep quiet.

Oh he made it himself!? He took the time to find the images, put them together, write the stuff and once he was done he still thought it was funny and a good idea ??? Clearly his judgement can’t be trusted

 

[kittythehare]

I’m not sure what you mean Kitty
If a solicitor is requested then you don’t do any interviews with the DP without one being present .

I mean when he is first met by the police.. they suspect him, they go to him and they talk to him.. initial contact?

 

[Nikynoo]

Thank you very much for this. That is really interesting about have to disclose everything up front. I mean - it also makes complete sense both in terms of fact pattern but also fairness!

At what point in an investigation such as this would the interview be carried out? Would the police be looking to get a narrative of events quite fast based on initial events or in a case such as this, would they wait until they had as much evidence as possible before starting the interview? I note there are timeframes for holding an accused - would these be used fully? Just interested on the basis that - eg there is fairly good evidence to support an arrest and maybe even a possible charge so an interview is carried out, but then what if more information subsequently comes to light? Does that mean a new interview? Or is there really only one - once the police believe they have enough of a case to answer? And would they start testing the DP version of events immediately? I suppose it comes down to some extent to the credibility or otherwise of the response. Such that once the police reveal their evidence and then hear the DP counter narrative, does this change the view of events in the police mind or not.

New to all this crime stuff in real time. But I find it really interesting (but pleasing that there are such robust processes in place compared to what those of us lay people might imagine happens!)

Just wanted to add - remember he was arrested first on suspicion of Kidnap, which, I would imagine the Police were pretty sure of the kidnap element on arrest.

 

[asyousay]

Oh he made it himself!? He took the time to find the images, put them together, write the stuff and once he was done he still thought it was funny and a good idea ??? Clearly his judgement can’t be trusted

No the original photo existed already but the text has been altered on the original image to ‘police guide from abduction to murder’ as newspapers have said today.

The Met PC shared a parody of the Highway Code showing a guide of the six stages from abduction to murder, it is claimed.

he allegedly sent this to 7 other officers who then reported it.

 

[lvbut]

Why are you refocusing back at this site? Nothing has been established taking place here, otherwise police would have been on it. We know whatever happened occurred back outside Poynders Court.

I’m sorry if I haven’t made myself clear in the previous post, I was just trying to point out that it appeared to be more of a light flare than anything of note. My apologies.