GUILTY UK - Star Hobson, 16 months, murdered, Sep 2020 *arrest*

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I doubt FS would ever have contacted the police or social services about her alleged suspicions about SB abusing Star. She surely would have been afraid of the repercussions on her and her family. SB had also allegedly threatened to harm herself on various occasions. FS would have been scared of that happening too.
What I really don’t understand though, is why SB would have attacked Star on that last, fatal occasion. Prior to then, her violence had taken place when they were together at the recycling centre, for hours on end and kept secret from FS. Why would she decide all of a sudden to kill Star right there, in FS’s sitting room, with FS within earshot?
The fuss and detail about where FS was at the time, and the seemingly irrelevant mention of ‘calling mum in’ both make me wonder who attacked Star. Could it have been FS and initially SB was trying to protect her by claiming she had to be called into the room or that they both arrived in the room together? And what about the other kids. If there was usually noise and thudding when they played together, they can’t have been actual babies. You’d think they could have been enabled to divulge some sort of information about what went on. If I were on the jury, I’d struggle to form any conclusion on the murder charge - it’s impossible to be sure which one of them killed Star, but as far as I’m concerned they’re both responsible for her death, so they should both be found guilty of murder and locked up for as long as possible.
 
Winterbells said:
as far as I’m concerned they’re both responsible for her death, so they should both be found guilty of murder and locked up for as long as
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I don’t entirely disagree with this. Hughes didn’t strike the fatal blow to Arthur, and wasn’t even in the house when he died, yet was still found guilty.

I’m just not buying the whole “FS was so controlled by SB” argument. She didn’t seek medical attention for Star because she knew Star was covered in bruises and had injuries, not because SB wouldn’t “let” her. She wasn’t so controlled that she couldn’t go out drinking all the time. MOO
 
Kitkat28 said:
I don’t entirely disagree with this. Hughes didn’t strike the fatal blow to Arthur, and wasn’t even in the house when he died, yet was still found guilty.

I’m just not buying the whole “FS was so controlled by SB” argument. She didn’t seek medical attention for Star because she knew Star was covered in bruises and had injuries, not because SB wouldn’t “let” her. She wasn’t so controlled that she couldn’t go out drinking all the time. MOO
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It’s not the same. There was ample evidence that TH had severely physically abused his son, both digital and from witnesses. He had made numerous threats to kill him and Arthur had repeatedly expressed fears his dad would kill him. Arthur had a blood clot in his brain, was salt poisoned, and would likely have died at some point. Either one of them could have killed him, and based on past patterns of abuse, TH is very lucky that ET happened to attack Arthur that day, or it likely would have been TH charged with murder.

In contrast, there is no evidence that FS deliberately injured Star, and there’s no evidence that she knew SB was doing so before the 12th-14th of September.

Social services were onto FS, and her grandparents were credible option for social services to place Star with. Her half brother had been removed and placed with her grandparents, so it was a risk that was real to her. She was terrified of them taking Star away and back to her grandparents. SB played on this and told her to keep Star away from most of her family. It would have made sense to FS.

When asking SB to delete photos of Star so that social services didn’t see her injuries, and SB asked which ones, FS described ones from accidental injuries. This is where she thought the bruises came from.

In thousands upon thousands of messages, not a single one before the 12th-14th September shows that FS thought Star was being assaulted.

When FS went out, SB would sometimes bombard her with hundreds of texts, and one time she turned up and dragged her into the car and drove away. FS had to do 12 hour facetimes to prove she was alone.

This behaviour going on and off from SB is part of the mind games, not evidence that FS wasn’t controlled.

Much of the control was because FS immediately defers to and trusts those more intelligent than herself, rather than FS being controlled by SB terrorising her. Although many witnesses have described being frightened of SB and what she would do.
 
ChloLo said:
I don’t think anyone can understand a controlling relationship until they’ve been in one. I have, I was allowed to go out drinking, it’s more complex than simply being allowed or not allowed to do things.
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I don’t think you can assume who has or hasn’t been in a controlling relationship.

Ultimately this is still a discussion board, and personally I still don’t see how or why FS should be able walk away from her dead baby with no repercussions.
 
Kitkat28 said:
I don’t think you can assume who has or hasn’t been in a controlling relationship.

Ultimately this is still a discussion board, and personally I still don’t see how or why FS should be able walk away from her dead baby with no repercussions.
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I agree, I think the charge she truly deserves is child cruelty, but since she’s not being charged with that, I hope that she is convicted of causing/allowing.

I am concerned that there is not enough evidence for this beyond reasonable doubt and that she’ll walk away with nothing. I’m not even sure if she’s actually guilty of that charge, and go back and forth. But she does need to face some consequences for being a selfish, lazy, terrible mother.
 
FS failed her own baby and deserves whatever she gets - for allowing her monstrous girlfriend to do what she did to that little one and almost condoning it - she put her nights out drinking first, KNOWING she was giving helpless little Star into the hands of someone who could not be trusted to be kind or offer even the most basic levels of care. I assume she was too stupid to understand, too young to have assumed the responsibility of caring for her own little baby, but my, how little Star paid the price of that. What can be done? Nothing, I guess. Stupid people will always be able to have babies, and some of those babies will suffer beyond imagining.
 
C: Count 1, murder, do you find SB guilty or not guilty?

F: Guilty.

Savannah BRockhill nods and looks sullen.

C: Count 1, murder, do you find FS guuilty or not guilty?

F: Not guilty.

SMith is emotional, in tears.

C: Alternative charge of manslaughter, guilty or not guilty?

F: Not guilty.

Smith is crying.
 
11:03am

C: Count 1, murder, do you find SB guilty or not guilty?

F: Guilty.

Savannah BRockhill nods and looks sullen.

C: Count 1, murder, do you find FS guuilty or not guilty?

F: Not guilty.

SMith is emotional, in tears.

C: Alternative charge of manslaughter, guilty or not guilty?

F: Not guilty.

Smith is crying.

11:02am

The court clerk speaks to the jury foreman.

Clerk: Savannah Brockhill, Frankie Smith, will you stand. MR Foreman, have you reached a verdict on which you are all agreed on all counts?

Foreman: Yes
 
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