UK UK - Suzy Lamplugh, 25, Fulham, 28 Jul 1986 #2

[asyousay]

The problem is unless DV does crowdfunding which he seems reluctant to do as he knows his books becomes redundant if he is completely wrong.


LE is not going to search places when they think they know who did and there isn’t a single bit of evidence to prove DV right. LE has zero interest in his theory and he said as much at Christmas on his podcast.

 

[Terryb808]

The problem is unless DV does crowdfunding which he seems reluctant to do as he knows his books becomes redundant if he is completely wrong.


LE is not going to search places when they think they know who did and there isn’t a single bit of evidence to prove DV right. LE has zero interest in his theory and he said as much at Christmas on his podcast.

Unfortunately this is typical of the Met, they said that in the SJL case they would leave no stone unturned.
Okay DV has no concrete evidence that SJL went to the PoW, but then neither has the Met that she was actually at 37 SR, or that JC was ever in Fulham that day.
I’d say that the case against JC is totally built on SJL going to 37 SR, even the Met are thinking that she never went there.
So they’re left with a 35 year old case, with no evidence at all to tell them where SJL actually went when she left the office.
DV is a good detective and he’s just applied basic logic, and that takes him to the PoW.
So what evidence is there that SW is the perpetrator? None apart from the fact that he’s a murderer and already locked up (just like JC).
As DV has said some people commit a murder, and it’s the only one they commit, then go back to normal.
IMO there’s a lot of coincidences with CV, he changed his story one year later, he gave up on being a pub landlord and split from his then partner. Additionally, when DV tried to interview her she reacted badly.
All police investigations are built initially on a theory, when they start on a line of enquiry the facts and evidence become apparent.
As I see it DV’ narrative is no different in this respect, the Met seem to be avoiding his theory.
This can’t only be because he is missing the golden thread, just maybe he’s right and they will look foolish for not having a completely open mind at the start of the 1986 enquiry

 

[TimFisher1965]

There are very few actual irrefutable facts in this case and DV has more facts that the met and has a far more accurate grasp of what probably happened than nearly everyone. A lot more logical deduction is required not speculation and theory. I think it’s almost certainly a fact for example the possessions were left (not stolen) outside the POW at around 10pm to 10.15pm on the Sunday night. If they were lost on Friday why did SL not mention to anyone she had lost them over the weekend? Not even to Nick Bryant? Because she did know until she got her things together to go to the office that Monday morning they were missing. All the facts support this. To solve this case each aspect must be forensically taken apart until only the facts remain.

 

[WestLondoner]

@Jackster I wonder if perhaps SJL fell down cellar stairs could have banged her head even, CV would not call police as perhaps he did something afterwards?

DV has suggested this could be an accident rather than a deliberate killing or another in a line of serial killings. The problem for me with this is that if a genuine, obvious accident happened, why wouldn't he just report it? Whose reflexive instinct is it to hide a fatal accident that was nobody's fault? It seems likelier to me that the reason he hid it was that he had to. I.e.:
"Here she is officer - she seems to have fallen down the stairs and broken her neck".
"Yes. Tell me, how did she come to fall backwards?"
"I don't know."
"Why are there buttons missing from her blouse, Clive?"
"I don't know. She arrived like that."
"From work? Really? That's not what her workmates say. Why is her underwear torn? Did that happen in the car too?"
"I don't know."
"Clive?"
"Yes?"
"You're nicked."
An examination of her body could have meant CV looking at attempted rape and manslaughter, with clear premeditation aggravating the matter. He'd be looking at twelve to fifteen years at least, I'd have thought. And that's why you cover up an "accident" - if it happened while he was committing a crime against her.
@Terryb808

Absolutely. If the police were to search the pub per DV's theory, it would entail tacitly admitting they've been mugs for 36 years. Worse, and humiliatingly, the accounts and the facts that give rise to DV's theory were actually available to the police on the day she disappeared in 1986. They'd heard she intended to go to the pub to pick up her stuff. CV says she never turned up there, but it doesn't look like she turned up to her supposed viewing either - no keys and "Mr Kipper" indeed. So we'll just search the pub, sir, if that's OK?

@TimFisher1965

Yes, that all fits. She went to see her mother, wanted to have a private call with AL, can't do it at mother's and can't do it at home either because NB. Her route from mother to home takes her past the PoW so she stops off, makes her call, loses her stuff and goes home. CV perhaps outside collecting glasses sees this, sees her, conceives a malign plan....

CV's motives are baffling - he seems to have decided to kill her pretty much on sight having established that the pub has a good hiding place - but frankly the motives of any killer or sexual offender are bewildering to normal people. If I'd seen SJL in the street I would have thought Wow, but someone like JC would have thought I'm going to rape her. <Shrug>

 

[TimFisher1965]

@Jackster I wonder if perhaps SJL fell down cellar stairs could have banged her head even, CV would not call police as perhaps he did something afterwards?

DV has suggested this could be an accident rather than a deliberate killing or another in a line of serial killings. The problem for me with this is that if a genuine, obvious accident happened, why wouldn't he just report it? Whose reflexive instinct is it to hide a fatal accident that was nobody's fault? It seems likelier to me that the reason he hid it was that he had to. I.e.:
"Here she is officer - she seems to have fallen down the stairs and broken her neck".
"Yes. Tell me, how did she come to fall backwards?"
"I don't know."
"Why are there buttons missing from her blouse, Clive?"
"I don't know. She arrived like that."
"From work? Really? That's not what her workmates say. Why is her underwear torn? Did that happen in the car too?"
"I don't know."
"Clive?"
"Yes?"
"You're nicked."
An examination of her body could have meant CV looking at attempted rape and manslaughter, with clear premeditation aggravating the matter. He'd be looking at twelve to fifteen years at least, I'd have thought. And that's why you cover up an "accident" - if it happened while he was committing a crime against her.
@Terryb808

Absolutely. If the police were to search the pub per DV's theory, it would entail tacitly admitting they've been mugs for 36 years. Worse, and humiliatingly, the accounts and the facts that give rise to DV's theory were actually available to the police on the day she disappeared in 1986. They'd heard she intended to go to the pub to pick up her stuff. CV says she never turned up there, but it doesn't look like she turned up to her supposed viewing either - no keys and "Mr Kipper" indeed. So we'll just search the pub, sir, if that's OK?

@TimFisher1965

Yes, that all fits. She went to see her mother, wanted to have a private call with AL, can't do it at mother's and can't do it at home either because NB. Her route from mother to home takes her past the PoW so she stops off, makes her call, loses her stuff and goes home. CV perhaps outside collecting glasses sees this, sees her, conceives a malign plan....

CV's motives are baffling - he seems to have decided to kill her pretty much on sight having established that the pub has a good hiding place - but frankly the motives of any killer or sexual offender are bewildering to normal people. If I'd seen SJL in the street I would have thought Wow, but someone like JC would have thought I'm going to rape her. <Shrug>

In DVs book Michael Hutchings said they checked the diary and there was not an address for them to identify the owner. This raises several points, IF a postcard was found this would surely have an address on it so did CV pocket the postcard so only he knew who the possessions belonged to? BUT if Michael and his Wife Zoe both saw the diary they found nothing in it on first glance at least that was salacious so if the stuff was placed in the cellar overnight did CV read it later and formulate a plan to use if and when SL turned up?
Must of us believe based on the apparent facts that SL dropped the possessions as she phoned AL from the phone box at about 10.15pm on Sunday night that fits. If CV found the stuff at that time showed them to his wife and Michael and Zoe perhaps they glanced it saw no address so thought nothing more about it. IF the bank were phoned on Monday morning by CV this suggests that he was not planning her any harm so I agree we must if we assume he was responsible then why did things happen as they possibly did? I think the only plausible explanation is that she turned up and surprised him and it’s entirely possible he was the only person at the pub when she showed up so an accident or a violent confrontation which resulted in a death possibly accidentally. I cannot reconcile a murder that was in any way planned. I think she went straight to the pub and she met her end there and as DV says he cannot say exactly what happened. All CV had to was move her car which means WJ are both wrong but I find that easier to explain away that the subsequent actions of CV

 

[WestLondoner]

IF a postcard was found this would surely have an address on it

Well, not necessarily. Was it a blank postcard she had bought? Was it one she had written so it had someone else's address on it?

did CV read it later and formulate a plan to use if and when SL turned up?

Well, you have to wonder this. Something caused her to die in the encounter and her death for some reason couldn't be reported. It cannot be the case that CV was innocent but feared being accused of killing her, or of being "Mr Kipper" - at 1pm on 28/7/86, nobody had ever heard of Mr Kipper, or of any alleged viewing by him.

IF the bank were phoned on Monday morning by CV this suggests that he was not planning her any harm

Yes, although this hinges on whether he phoned the bank or his partner did.

 

[WestLondoner]

Assuming DV is right and that SJL died at the PoW the timing is interesting.

It suggests SJL left the office at 12.40, walked to her car, drove to the PoW, parked nearby and went inside. This would be about 1 to 1.15pm at the latest. She then died, presumably almost immediately as whatever the situation was got out of hand, probably by about 1.30.

CV - or whomever he was assisting - realised he was in the pickle of his life. She had to be hidden because the evidence from her body pointed to deliberate killing or to her death while being assaulted. By say 2pm, CV had recovered his wits, checked that he was still alone in the pub and undetected, and thinking about where to hide her, or had already pre-determined that it will be under the floor.

He realised the presence of her car close by will incriminate him, especially if she told anyone she was coming to the PoW. His best bet will be to say she never showed, which meant the car also had to be disposed of.

So first he located and set aside her car keys, which she walked in carrying. Then he went ahead and hid her, quite a long way from the access point (did he get dirty doing this? How long did it take?). There's no headroom or light and she was a dead weight but he got her into position, then scrabbled about for builders' litter. He covered her with this so that any cursory glance later that day would not reveal a body, then emerged into the cellar. It was now probably about 3pm. The state of his clothes was a problem so he changed them, and remembering to take gloves, then hurried out to find her car. He was up against the clock; he had to deal with this before Mrs CV turned up. He found the car close by at about 3.05. He knew it was a Ford and luckily it was almost right outside, recognisably a woman's car - hat on the back parcel shelf, her purse in the door pocket, and the key fitted the door.

He drove away from the pub. As DV says, Whoever moved the car was thinking on their feet. As they drove Suzy’s car along the most famous street in the Fulham area...looking for somewhere to abandon it, they happened across a house with a Sturgis board outside. Something that would further confuse investigators...

In "looking for somewhere to abandon it" CV was looking for somewhere well away from the pub, but not too near her office (so he would not be spotted in her car by anyone who'd recognise it). He also needed a quiet street with no witnesses or passers-by where it would not attract attention - so he couldn't just double park it and do a runner.

This proved very hard. It was a busy part of town, everywhere there were people, and this was taking too long - till nearly 4, in fact. Eventually he found a quiet road with a BT van packing up for the day. He dumped the car and scarpered without putting the brake on or locking it. He threw the keys away because he touched these before he put gloves on, and he put the gloves in his pocket. Around the corner he hailed a cab and asked to be dropped at a place which is near the Tube. He casually told the driver there's a couple having a right ruck. Fortuitously this planted the idea that SJL went to Stevenage Road with somebody.

He's back at the pub by 4.30.

The BT workers accurately reported the Fiesta not being there when they left. WJ inaccurately reported it being there at 12.30. A taxi driver said it was there at 3. They're not entirely wrong.

 

[Terryb808]

Assuming DV is right and that SJL died at the PoW the timing is interesting.

It suggests SJL left the office at 12.40, walked to her car, drove to the PoW, parked nearby and went inside. This would be about 1 to 1.15pm at the latest. She then died, presumably almost immediately as whatever the situation was got out of hand, probably by about 1.30.

CV - or whomever he was assisting - realised he was in the pickle of his life. She had to be hidden because the evidence from her body pointed to deliberate killing or to her death while being assaulted. By say 2pm, CV had recovered his wits, checked that he was still alone in the pub and undetected, and thinking about where to hide her, or had already pre-determined that it will be under the floor.

He realised the presence of her car close by will incriminate him, especially if she told anyone she was coming to the PoW. His best bet will be to say she never showed, which meant the car also had to be disposed of.

So first he located and set aside her car keys, which she walked in carrying. Then he went ahead and hid her, quite a long way from the access point (did he get dirty doing this? How long did it take?). There's no headroom or light and she was a dead weight but he got her into position, then scrabbled about for builders' litter. He covered her with this so that any cursory glance later that day would not reveal a body, then emerged into the cellar. It was now probably about 3pm. The state of his clothes was a problem so he changed them, and remembering to take gloves, then hurried out to find her car. He was up against the clock; he had to deal with this before Mrs CV turned up. He found the car close by at about 3.05. He knew it was a Ford and luckily it was almost right outside, recognisably a woman's car - hat on the back parcel shelf, her purse in the door pocket, and the key fitted the door.

He drove away from the pub. As DV says, Whoever moved the car was thinking on their feet. As they drove Suzy’s car along the most famous street in the Fulham area...looking for somewhere to abandon it, they happened across a house with a Sturgis board outside. Something that would further confuse investigators...

In "looking for somewhere to abandon it" CV was looking for somewhere well away from the pub, but not too near her office (so he would not be spotted in her car by anyone who'd recognise it). He also needed a quiet street with no witnesses or passers-by where it would not attract attention - so he couldn't just double park it and do a runner.

This proved very hard. It was a busy part of town, everywhere there were people, and this was taking too long - till nearly 4, in fact. Eventually he found a quiet road with a BT van packing up for the day. He dumped the car and scarpered without putting the brake on or locking it. He threw the keys away because he touched these before he put gloves on, and he put the gloves in his pocket. Around the corner he hailed a cab and asked to be dropped at a place which is near the Tube. He casually told the driver there's a couple having a right ruck. Fortuitously this planted the idea that SJL went to Stevenage Road with somebody.

He's back at the pub by 4.30.

The BT workers accurately reported the Fiesta not being there when they left. WJ inaccurately reported it being there at 12.30. A taxi driver said it was there at 3. They're not entirely wrong.

I’d say case closed, just need to find SJL either in the PoW or on the embankment at the rear.

It’s my honest opinion that the group within
This thread are more than capable of solving this.

Unfortunately we’re hindered by a lack of support from the Met and an attitude that dismisses anyones opinion that’s not from within the Met.

I believe the Mets JD has said he hates “armchair detectives”, however, this group has an open mind and not just JC did it.

 

[Jackster]

Assuming DV is right and that SJL died at the PoW the timing is interesting.

It suggests SJL left the office at 12.40, walked to her car, drove to the PoW, parked nearby and went inside. This would be about 1 to 1.15pm at the latest. She then died, presumably almost immediately as whatever the situation was got out of hand, probably by about 1.30.

CV - or whomever he was assisting - realised he was in the pickle of his life. She had to be hidden because the evidence from her body pointed to deliberate killing or to her death while being assaulted. By say 2pm, CV had recovered his wits, checked that he was still alone in the pub and undetected, and thinking about where to hide her, or had already pre-determined that it will be under the floor.

He realised the presence of her car close by will incriminate him, especially if she told anyone she was coming to the PoW. His best bet will be to say she never showed, which meant the car also had to be disposed of.

So first he located and set aside her car keys, which she walked in carrying. Then he went ahead and hid her, quite a long way from the access point (did he get dirty doing this? How long did it take?). There's no headroom or light and she was a dead weight but he got her into position, then scrabbled about for builders' litter. He covered her with this so that any cursory glance later that day would not reveal a body, then emerged into the cellar. It was now probably about 3pm. The state of his clothes was a problem so he changed them, and remembering to take gloves, then hurried out to find her car. He was up against the clock; he had to deal with this before Mrs CV turned up. He found the car close by at about 3.05. He knew it was a Ford and luckily it was almost right outside, recognisably a woman's car - hat on the back parcel shelf, her purse in the door pocket, and the key fitted the door.

He drove away from the pub. As DV says, Whoever moved the car was thinking on their feet. As they drove Suzy’s car along the most famous street in the Fulham area...looking for somewhere to abandon it, they happened across a house with a Sturgis board outside. Something that would further confuse investigators...

In "looking for somewhere to abandon it" CV was looking for somewhere well away from the pub, but not too near her office (so he would not be spotted in her car by anyone who'd recognise it). He also needed a quiet street with no witnesses or passers-by where it would not attract attention - so he couldn't just double park it and do a runner.

This proved very hard. It was a busy part of town, everywhere there were people, and this was taking too long - till nearly 4, in fact. Eventually he found a quiet road with a BT van packing up for the day. He dumped the car and scarpered without putting the brake on or locking it. He threw the keys away because he touched these before he put gloves on, and he put the gloves in his pocket. Around the corner he hailed a cab and asked to be dropped at a place which is near the Tube. He casually told the driver there's a couple having a right ruck. Fortuitously this planted the idea that SJL went to Stevenage Road with somebody.

He's back at the pub by 4.30.

The BT workers accurately reported the Fiesta not being there when they left. WJ inaccurately reported it being there at 12.30. A taxi driver said it was there at 3. They're not entirely wrong.

Assuming DV is right and that SJL died at the PoW the timing is interesting.

It suggests SJL left the office at 12.40, walked to her car, drove to the PoW, parked nearby and went inside. This would be about 1 to 1.15pm at the latest. She then died, presumably almost immediately as whatever the situation was got out of hand, probably by about 1.30.

CV - or whomever he was assisting - realised he was in the pickle of his life. She had to be hidden because the evidence from her body pointed to deliberate killing or to her death while being assaulted. By say 2pm, CV had recovered his wits, checked that he was still alone in the pub and undetected, and thinking about where to hide her, or had already pre-determined that it will be under the floor.

He realised the presence of her car close by will incriminate him, especially if she told anyone she was coming to the PoW. His best bet will be to say she never showed, which meant the car also had to be disposed of.

So first he located and set aside her car keys, which she walked in carrying. Then he went ahead and hid her, quite a long way from the access point (did he get dirty doing this? How long did it take?). There's no headroom or light and she was a dead weight but he got her into position, then scrabbled about for builders' litter. He covered her with this so that any cursory glance later that day would not reveal a body, then emerged into the cellar. It was now probably about 3pm. The state of his clothes was a problem so he changed them, and remembering to take gloves, then hurried out to find her car. He was up against the clock; he had to deal with this before Mrs CV turned up. He found the car close by at about 3.05. He knew it was a Ford and luckily it was almost right outside, recognisably a woman's car - hat on the back parcel shelf, her purse in the door pocket, and the key fitted the door.

He drove away from the pub. As DV says, Whoever moved the car was thinking on their feet. As they drove Suzy’s car along the most famous street in the Fulham area...looking for somewhere to abandon it, they happened across a house with a Sturgis board outside. Something that would further confuse investigators...

In "looking for somewhere to abandon it" CV was looking for somewhere well away from the pub, but not too near her office (so he would not be spotted in her car by anyone who'd recognise it). He also needed a quiet street with no witnesses or passers-by where it would not attract attention - so he couldn't just double park it and do a runner.

This proved very hard. It was a busy part of town, everywhere there were people, and this was taking too long - till nearly 4, in fact. Eventually he found a quiet road with a BT van packing up for the day. He dumped the car and scarpered without putting the brake on or locking it. He threw the keys away because he touched these before he put gloves on, and he put the gloves in his pocket. Around the corner he hailed a cab and asked to be dropped at a place which is near the Tube. He casually told the driver there's a couple having a right ruck. Fortuitously this planted the idea that SJL went to Stevenage Road with somebody.

He's back at the pub by 4.30.

The BT workers accurately reported the Fiesta not being there when they left. WJ inaccurately reported it being there at 12.30. A taxi driver said it was there at 3. They're not entirely wrong.

 

[Jackster]

Think you are spot on westlondoner

 

[WestLondoner]

It’s my honest opinion that the group within
This thread are more than capable of solving this.

I think that working forward from DV's work, read in conjunction with AS' from 1988, we more or less have. Either SJL was the victim of a stranger attack at the PoW, or she was intercepted en route there by one or both of the couple with whom she had parted financial brass rags. She could have ended up underneath the PoW floor in the latter case too but this would require the establishment of a connection to CV, which we don't have.

Step one would be the search, but the police won't do this as they will look stupid, and JC will be released, if she's found. This apparently weighs more with them than the sitting duck of a murder conviction available to them if she were found there. If she's not there, nobody's further forward and nobody will buy DV's book.

 

[asyousay]

Where has it been confirmed she went out Sunday night to make a phone call?

her day was awfully long so she would of had a phone in her flat so I don’t see why she would leave home to make a phone call. also why would she take a bag to do this?

 

[WestLondoner]

Her mother has said she was at her house till about 9 or later on Sunday. To get home from there she would have driven right past the PoW. AL said there was a phone call, and as she had apparently just broken up with him, this call would have been of a personal nature. If she had made it from home or her mother's, it would have been on a landline fixed in a hallway or somewhere, with either the family or the lodger overhearing. It seems logical, as her stuff was found in front of the pub, that she stopped there to make the call, I.e. we don't need to figure out, necessarily, who she was at the pub with; she was quite possibly alone.

 

[Crusader21]

Great discussion guys and given what is in the public domain, I think we've got very, very close to what actually happened that Monday.

It's an uncomfortable reality check though, thanks to imo poor policing backed by the media, that we have a situation were if you asked Joe Public in 2022 - what happened to SL? The reply would be along the lines of - After showing a client around 37 SR SL was abducted by a stalker 'Mr Kipper' aka JC.

Indeed if one of the newspapers were to feature the case today that prob would be their intro.

 

[Crusader21]

Anyone see any mileage in a scenario were the MP for Putney Fleur Anderson, tabled a question on the floor of the House of Commons along the lines of -

With the publication of a book by ex-Met detective DV on the disappearance of SL, why has the premises of the Pow Putney never been searched in an attempt to locate her remains?

MP Anderson could even use Parliamentary Privilege to give the real name of CV, as the person who may have been the last person to see SL alive and therefore possibly evading justice...

 

[Jackster]

Interesting to read the AS book which I have just finished , lots of info I was not aware of before …

 

[Terryb808]

Anyone see any mileage in a scenario were the MP for Putney Fleur Anderson, tabled a question on the floor of the House of Commons along the lines of -

With the publication of a book by ex-Met detective DV on the disappearance of SL, why has the premises of the Pow Putney never been searched in an attempt to locate her remains?

MP Anderson could even use Parliamentary Privilege to give the real name of CV, as the person who may have been the last person to see SL alive and therefore possibly evading justice...

I’d like to see this happen, however, getting an MP to do this will be difficult. If you look at this from their point of view, it’s a 35 year old case and the police already have enough to do. Plus the costs involved, after the Fred West cafe investigation the Met have an excellent case for not digging up the PoW.
Additionally the Met are notoriously difficult to shift when they have their heels dug firmly in.
They’ve ignored a report that took 8 years in the making (murder in the car park) initiated by the then Home Secretary. This report said they were institutionally corrupt, which is pretty damming.
I’m generally not negative, but unless an outside party via crowd funding gets the PoW inspection, it’s not going to happen.

 

[WestLondoner]

Unrelated further point - if SJL wanted to cut short the call with AL on Sunday, by making it from a payphone, she could conveniently say "Sorry, run out of coins, gotta go" and hang up.

Back on topic - what's disgraceful about the police here is that it's not as though this was a mistake from 36 years ago and they can make amends now because nobody involved then is still around now. All the time the case has remained open they have reaffirmed their conviction that it was JC, even when the CPS told them they had no case and even when DV articulately points out what else they could consider. They have kept updating and doubling down on their error and are now well dug in.

So yes, crowdfunding (or a wealthy individual?) are the only way to go, but the money's only part of the problem. If you own that pub, why would you allow a private search and risk its name being forever associated with an awful crime? 10 Rillington Place, 25 Cromwell Street, 23 Cranley Gardens became so notorious they never lost the association. The first two of those had to be bulldozed, and the latter's history comes up anytime anybody tries to sell or let it. So the PoW would become known as The Suzy Lamplugh Pub for ever after, and anybody who has ever eaten there would shudder at the thought that they had done so with her body lying three feet under their table.

The MP idea is a good one but it would depend on the MP. Some would want to maintain cordial relations etc. I wonder if the equivalent person on the mayoral assembly would be better? The Met are accountable to the Mayor of London so maybe he should be approached.

 

[WestLondoner]

Indeed if one of the newspapers were to feature the case today that prob would be their intro.

There've been a couple of documentaries in the last year that have done exactly that. They start from the premise that the police know it was JC. They they trot out the "sightings" remembered 14 years later. Then they bring up the claims that JC was known as Mr Kipper in prison because he liked kippers / wore a kipper tie (in jail apparently) / like to have a kip / liked to be clever and "kipper" is "kidnapper" with the "dna" removed. Why he'd use his prison nickname as an anonymous alias, or that he was called this after the fact because the press thought he was Mr Kipper, is never discussed. Then they mention the black BMW that HR admitted he never saw and that JC didn't acquire till 1987. Then they mention the man from Bristol SJL was seeing in 1984 (while JC was in prison) who was obviously JC because he was from Bristol (he was from the Midlands and moved to Bristol in 1987). A recent one used a "forensic geographer" to "prove" that from Fulham, JC headed straight to the M4, which was handy for Fulham and Bristol. Presumably he drove slowly and took a year to get there, so that by the time he arrived in Bristol, he was living there.

What none of them ever does is ask the obvious question: why, if JC did it, can't police can't prove it or even persuade the CPS? The equally obvious answer - because there's no evidence, because he didn't do it - never occurs.

Incidentally, re "James Galway", the bearded bloke who got into a cab around the corner from where the car was found, said he'd seen a couple having "a right ruck", and never came forward to elaborate. That is a northern turn of phrase, is it not? And CV is a northerner? Do we know when that happened? If my estimated timeline is correct, I'd say about 4pm?

 

[Terryb808]

Unrelated further point - if SJL wanted to cut short the call with AL on Sunday, by making it from a payphone, she could conveniently say "Sorry, run out of coins, gotta go" and hang up.

Back on topic - what's disgraceful about the police here is that it's not as though this was a mistake from 36 years ago and they can make amends now because nobody involved then is still around now. All the time the case has remained open they have reaffirmed their conviction that it was JC, even when the CPS told them they had no case and even when DV articulately points out what else they could consider. They have kept updating and doubling down on their error and are now well dug in.

So yes, crowdfunding (or a wealthy individual?) are the only way to go, but the money's only part of the problem. If you own that pub, why would you allow a private search and risk its name being forever associated with an awful crime? 10 Rillington Place, 25 Cromwell Street, 23 Cranley Gardens became so notorious they never lost the association. The first two of those had to be bulldozed, and the latter's history comes up anytime anybody tries to sell or let it. So the PoW would become known as The Suzy Lamplugh Pub for ever after, and anybody who has ever eaten there would shudder at the thought that they had done so with her body lying three feet under their table.

The MP idea is a good one but it would depend on the MP. Some would want to maintain cordial relations etc. I wonder if the equivalent person on the mayoral assembly would be better? The Met are accountable to the Mayor of London so maybe he should be approached.

On the button, I like the Mayor idea, he’s managed what many have tried to do in the past, so maybe he couple move the Met on this one.
I know who now owns the PoW and after it was acquired all the directors changed. They are now Londoners, I’m guessing like you they won’t cooperate with anyone but the Met.
The PoW landlord (who was helpful with DV) stayed on after the pub changed hands. I’m guessing he’ll not be so accommodating this time around.
Another option would be to get Network Rail onboard, this would allow the land to the rear to be searched, IMO this area is a more likely place for SJL than the PoW cellar.